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 » RockyTalky
»  » Low score of TIC on HCA - good or bad?
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Low score of TIC on HCA - good or bad? |
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| P: 4/9/2004 1:35:44 PM | |
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AM Rough Rock Total Posts: 19 Last Post: 4/10/2004 Member Since: 3/18/2004 |
My stone scored 0.7 TIC on HCA. Vendor claimed its H&A cut. But I thought that H&A scored closer to 2.0 than to 0.5? The HCA page says that a stone like mine would be "least affected by small symmetry variations". What does that mean? Thanks for your help.
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| Posted: 4/9/2004 1:35:44 PM | |
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There are 18 replies to this message. There are 18 replies on this page. |
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| P: 4/9/2004 1:47:26 PM | |
lop Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,651 Last Post: 9/7/2009 Member Since: 6/14/2003 |
I'm not sure what that quote means specifically, but a score of .7 is a great score. THe HCA can be used to screen out potential poor preformers. Anything under 2.0 should be a great candidate, and lots of people seem to prefer stones between .5-1.5. It's not magic -- the final decision should consider more than just the HCA. Ask the vendor to send you pictures of the hearts and arrows. Then you can see for yourself how they look.
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| Posted: 4/9/2004 1:47:26 PM | |
| P: 4/9/2004 2:05:41 PM | |
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,936 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
That's odd...where did you get the idea that a score closer to 2.0 is more H&A than 0.5?
Honestly, your eye can most likely not pick up a difference in a stone that scores 0.7 vs 1.5. Maybe not even 2.0. The HCA is just one tool available in many that will help you score your diamond in terms of it's cut quality. But by no means is it the end all to be all, or the ultimate answer.
0.7 is excellent! If the stone has excellent numbers and is H&A branded and has a great pattern, the HCA just corroborates that data. No worries.
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| Posted: 4/9/2004 2:05:41 PM | |
| P: 4/9/2004 2:08:22 PM | |
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AM Rough Rock Total Posts: 19 Last Post: 4/10/2004 Member Since: 3/18/2004 |
thank you. what would the vendor use to take a picture of hearts and arrows? he sent me a blue picture which looks beautiful to me, but i am not an expert. what should i be looking for there? i can clearly see the hearts on the picture though.... Also, he sent me an idealscope picture. There are some white bursts of light at the edges of arrows, but i read thats common even in H&A. Whats interesting is the arrows are gray, not black...hmm? What do you think? (sorry i can't load the pictures for some reason)
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| Posted: 4/9/2004 2:08:22 PM | |
| P: 4/9/2004 2:12:43 PM | |
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AM Rough Rock Total Posts: 19 Last Post: 4/10/2004 Member Since: 3/18/2004 |
mara, to answer your question. the HCA site says, I quote "A score below 2 (Excellent) means you have eliminated known poor performers (more than 95% of all diamonds). Your own personal preference may be for a diamond with an HCA score of 1.5 more rather than one with a lower score of say 0.5." i kinda assummed that a higher score is better as long as it is below 2.0, which most H&As are.
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| Posted: 4/9/2004 2:12:43 PM | |
| P: 4/9/2004 2:18:11 PM | |
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Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,936 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
Some experts say that scores of 0.5 or under show reduced contrast in the stone (run a search to find what contrast means or read the tutorial). Some people may prefer a reduced contrast stone vs one that has a better balance of all the qualities. Just like some may prefer BIC over TIC or FIC.
It is a very confusing statement and personally I think it should be clarified for newbies or removed entirely. When I first started learning, it confused me for a long time as well because your natural assumption is that the lower the score on the HCA the better. But that may not be the case. I like to focus on 1 as the happy medium on the HCA. I don't know that I'd consider a stone with a score of 0.5 if there was another one with similar specs and just as lovely pictures that was 1.2.
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| Posted: 4/9/2004 2:18:11 PM | |
| P: 4/9/2004 2:30:38 PM | |
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AM Rough Rock Total Posts: 19 Last Post: 4/10/2004 Member Since: 3/18/2004 |
mara and everyone else, what do you think about these Qs: what would the vendor use to take a picture of hearts and arrows? he sent me a blue picture which looks beautiful to me, but i am not an expert. what should i be looking for there? i can clearly see the hearts on the picture though.... Also, he sent me an idealscope picture. There are some white bursts of light at the edges of arrows, but i read thats common even in H&A. Whats interesting is the arrows are gray, not black...hmm? What do you think? (sorry i can't load the pictures for some reason) PS. i just saw the post on your ring. all i can say is "WOW"!!!! you go, girl! but i expected no less from an amatuer turned professional 
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| Posted: 4/9/2004 2:30:38 PM | |
| P: 4/9/2004 6:16:07 PM | |
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,586 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Happy the white bursts at the edges are very normal. Read about it here http://www.ideal-scope.com/newsletter_issue_003.asp Read the tutorials at this site and the loink I gave you to find out more  For all the other readers - HCA has some new information put up just this week. There is a chart there so people who do not want a spready stone can know to avoid it and other stuff. Leonid put a lot of effort into making this happen  Mara it is possible for 2 stones with HCA 1.5 to look vastly different to each other. Look at all the possabilities on the chart
Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 4/9/2004 6:16:07 PM | |
| P: 4/9/2004 6:21:58 PM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
---------------- I know, I know Very nice toy   But... the color code on the chart is not the same as for the old scores. A bit confusing. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 4/9/2004 6:21:58 PM | |
| P: 4/9/2004 7:58:25 PM | |
derekinla Cut Rock Total Posts: 467 Last Post: 6/16/2005 Member Since: 9/8/2003 |
My fiance's ring is a 1.4 carat AGS000 with an HCA of 0.3 and is absolutely stunning with amazing brilliance and eye poping fire. I asked a similar question a while back: click here Derek in Los Angeles |
| Posted: 4/9/2004 7:58:25 PM | |
| P: 4/9/2004 8:25:41 PM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,586 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Derek it is worth noting that HCA is a rejection tool. It tells you which diamond to reject, and which selection to take a closer look at Your stone must be in the lower left on the little AGS box. But note how little the box is in the big world of beautiful possible diamonds. Dealers reject many of those other diamonds because they "look different to what our customers are used too as a nice looking diamond". But for you on your first purchase - why not consider an AGS 10 for 33% less than your AGS 0? Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 4/9/2004 8:25:41 PM | |
| P: 4/9/2004 8:37:57 PM | |
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AM Rough Rock Total Posts: 19 Last Post: 4/10/2004 Member Since: 3/18/2004 |
ooook. looked at the idealscope chart, read the tutorial and HCA, and looked up the word "spread", but i am still confused. it appears a spready stone is a good thing, right? ie. little spread = "lifeless" stone but Cut Nut says some people do not want a spready stone. why?
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| Posted: 4/9/2004 8:37:57 PM | |
| P: 4/9/2004 8:44:33 PM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,586 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Read this http://www.ideal-scope.com/newsletter_issue_004.asp The shallow stone has a bigger spread - but if you look at it close up it goes dark. It is a trade off. Great for pendants, but do not let young people grab your hand and take it 6 inches from their face to examine the stone
Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 4/9/2004 8:44:33 PM | |
| P: 4/10/2004 6:20:32 PM | |
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AM Rough Rock Total Posts: 19 Last Post: 4/10/2004 Member Since: 3/18/2004 |
last 2 questions, i promise: Could you tell the difference between .7 TIC and 1.4 TIC? And what would the diffence be: more sparkle v. less sparkle, more color v. less color?
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| Posted: 4/10/2004 6:20:32 PM | |
| P: 4/10/2004 7:56:42 PM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,586 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
Go and create 2 sets of stone proportions that give those scores and ask me. You have not understood that you can have a score like those with a 30 degree crown and a score like those with a 36 degree crown. Can I tell - sure. Can you - sure. Can we both tell the diference between a diamond with a 40.9 degree pavilion and one with 41 degree - probably not - but maybe after some wear and you put some grease or dirt on the stone in a ring
Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 4/10/2004 7:56:42 PM | |
| P: 4/10/2004 8:02:00 PM | |
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AM Rough Rock Total Posts: 19 Last Post: 4/10/2004 Member Since: 3/18/2004 |
thanks. i think i have a better understanding now.
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| Posted: 4/10/2004 8:02:00 PM | |
| P: 4/10/2004 8:13:22 PM | |
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Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,586 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000 |
What are your proportions AM ?
Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT |
| Posted: 4/10/2004 8:13:22 PM | |
| P: 4/10/2004 8:14:09 PM | |
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Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,936 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002 |
Chances are the differences would be minimal if at all noticeable to your naked eye, assuming that the stones have nice proportions and you are not talking about a FIC or BIC...but rather a TIC with great numbers, and angles...so that if it scores 1.4 with 40.9 but 0.7 with 40.8...the difference to your eye is going to be nil assuming other numbers are the same.
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| Posted: 4/10/2004 8:14:09 PM | |
| P: 4/10/2004 10:08:05 PM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
---------------- Remember that these angles are averages: the variation of the measurements for different pav facets would be of that order anyway. Not sure this helps, but this is not bad news. HCA says "stay above 2" - this is for good reason and takes into account the effect of averaging out those angles. Given the symmetry grade, this stone has nil chances to get an undesirable score - lest it is an oval and we didn't know Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 4/10/2004 10:08:05 PM | |
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