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Inclusion Question

P: 3/20/2004 2:26:49 PM
BearMan Cut Rock Total Posts: 131 Last Post: 3/9/2006 Member Since: 2/3/2004	What is "INDENTED NATURAL" on a GIA cert mean? Is it of any concern? Does the Location make a difference? I bought my 1st Diamond Ever(asscher that you can ck out in Show me the Ring)just a few weeks ago and NOW I AM HOOKED(Lucky for my soon to be FIANCE!!).....Hooked on ASSCHER that is!... I dont have the exact specs but remember seeing it noted on a stone i looked at that it was "INDENTED NATURAL"....peaked my curiousity is all(table was bigger then i wanted as i remember)
Posted: 3/20/2004 2:26:49 PM

There are 18 replies to this message. There are 18 replies on this page.

P: 3/20/2004 2:42:13 PM
DiamondExpert Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,243 Last Post: 6/20/2009 Member Since: 1/16/2003	Cutters will endeavor to get the max weight from a stone, and sometimes this means leaving a bit of the original outside surface of the rough...this is usually at and/or just under the girdle, and indicated by "natural". However, an "indented natural" is a bit more intrusive in that it can be seen altering the normal outline of the stone in the face up position. The effect is usually minimal, and it's up to your eye to determine if it bothers you. Gary www.diamondexpert.com
Posted: 3/20/2004 2:42:13 PM

P: 3/20/2004 2:42:16 PM
Basset Hound Cut Rock Total Posts: 304 Last Post: 3/27/2007 Member Since: 1/29/2004	An indented natural is part of the orginal skin of the stone that was not polished and sort of flatens out the girdle outline at that point. As for if it is of any concern, it depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you are looking for an ideal cut, you won't have an indented natural. Depending on the size of the natural, it could make a barely noticable dent in the outline to where a major section of the stone looks flat. It may also influence clarity if it spreads into the crown or pavilion and is visible through the crown. The natural may have been left on the stone in order to retain weight.
Posted: 3/20/2004 2:42:16 PM

P: 3/20/2004 2:43:46 PM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Oh well... the answer is above, better than I can tell. It seems that I was typing the lines below as the question got it's answer Hm... that should be a portion of the surface of the rough diamond that became part of the girdle and looks like a small (probably hardly visible if at all) cavity. If you have the diamond in hand, you can probably pick this up if you pass a nail tip on the girdle. Unless this is a flawless diamond, this 'natural' is not going to affect price. In theory, the same words on a cert may mean "setting problem" but I have yet to come accross such an item. Given a high clarity grade and proper girdle thickness, this is a very minor detail. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 3/20/2004 2:43:46 PM

P: 3/20/2004 2:48:39 PM
icelady Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,030 Last Post: 10/21/2006 Member Since: 11/25/2003	Hi Bearman, An indented natural is part of the rough left somewhere on the diamond. Sometimes they are found along the girdle area and are left in to maximize the weight of the stone. In other words, some diamond cutters, if they can get a higher weight out of rough by cutting the stone bigger and leaving a bit of the rough along the girdle, will do so, especially if that gets the stone over the magical 1ct or 1.5ct (etc.) mark. I would think the location of an indented natural would make a difference. As far as how vulnerable a stone with an idented natural is, maybe one of the experts could answer that. Edited to add: Sorry I was in the middle of responding when the experts answered!! So, yea, what they said! icelady
Posted: 3/20/2004 2:48:39 PM

P: 3/20/2004 2:57:09 PM
BearMan Cut Rock Total Posts: 131 Last Post: 3/9/2006 Member Since: 2/3/2004	makes sense the inclusion plot i saw showed the "NI" in the top left corner where the corner would be cut off and meet the side on the asscher(if that makes any sense) ___ / \ my lame attempt at a pic
Posted: 3/20/2004 2:57:09 PM

P: 3/20/2004 3:03:42 PM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Meaning where the red circle is in my pic? That spot may be covered by the setting, I suppose. Does it show on the stone? Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 3/20/2004 3:03:42 PM

P: 3/20/2004 3:16:10 PM
BearMan Cut Rock Total Posts: 131 Last Post: 3/9/2006 Member Since: 2/3/2004	yes in the spot in your pic... I have never seen this stone so i dont know if it shows...i just have been looking at tons of asschers(i am hooked) and remember seeing that noted on a GIA and seeing it on the Cert Plot....but for the life of me i cant remember what site i saw it at...but i was just extra curious so if i saw that on a cert in the future.. thanks for the help
Posted: 3/20/2004 3:16:10 PM

P: 3/20/2004 4:20:45 PM
mhtv Rough Rock Total Posts: 32 Last Post: 4/26/2004 Member Since: 2/8/2004	IN's can be extremely insignificant..miniscule...hardly detectible even with 10X mag, or can be large and noticeable. there is no one rule. and they do not at all mean the diamond cannot be ideal cut. some will have absolutely ZERO effect on the cut.
Posted: 3/20/2004 4:20:45 PM

P: 3/20/2004 4:42:25 PM
caratgirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 634 Last Post: 12/22/2004 Member Since: 1/1/2003	It looks like your setting will cover the natural, so I wouldn't be worried at all that you can see it. Caratgirl Just a Diamond Lover
Posted: 3/20/2004 4:42:25 PM

P: 3/20/2004 5:11:41 PM
BearMan Cut Rock Total Posts: 131 Last Post: 3/9/2006 Member Since: 2/3/2004	This question is not in reference to MY STONE....its in reference to another stone i had looked at(decided not to buy)
Posted: 3/20/2004 5:11:41 PM

P: 3/20/2004 5:15:11 PM
BearMan Cut Rock Total Posts: 131 Last Post: 3/9/2006 Member Since: 2/3/2004	---------------- On 3/20/2004 4:42:25 PM caratgirl wrote: It looks like your setting will cover the natural, so I wouldn't be worried at all that you can see it. ---------------- I originally was going to go with an SI1 but then found out that with an ASSCHER you really need to be in the VS range...I got a G VS2 My inclusions are 2 clouds(1 very small) under the table and 2 crystals one under the table the other shows int eh step closest to the table....None of the inclusions can be seen with the naked eye(faceup or thru the pavillion)
Posted: 3/20/2004 5:15:11 PM

P: 3/20/2004 9:32:53 PM
mhtv Rough Rock Total Posts: 32 Last Post: 4/26/2004 Member Since: 2/8/2004	"....with an ASSCHER you really need to be in the VS range..." sorry, but this is pure nonsense.
Posted: 3/20/2004 9:32:53 PM

P: 3/21/2004 12:10:45 AM
pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003	If I'm not mistaken, an indented natural can be a spot for dirt to collect. In order for the diamond to show its best, you would need to take extra care to keep that area clean. VS would certainly make it easier to have an eye clean assher cut! Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! ____________________________________________________________ Just a regular person trying to be helpful. Consult a Pro prior to purchase!
Posted: 3/21/2004 12:10:45 AM

P: 3/21/2004 12:12:34 PM
mhtv Rough Rock Total Posts: 32 Last Post: 4/26/2004 Member Since: 2/8/2004	"If I'm not mistaken, an indented natural can be a spot for dirt to collect." only if it had significant size. again, an IN can be very very tiny, in which case it would have no detrimental effect on the appearance of the diamond. "VS would certainly make it easier to have an eye clean assher cut!" or you could get an EYE-CLEAN SI1 and save lots of money!
Posted: 3/21/2004 12:12:34 PM

P: 3/21/2004 12:48:04 PM
BearMan Cut Rock Total Posts: 131 Last Post: 3/9/2006 Member Since: 2/3/2004	---------------- On 3/20/2004 9:32:53 PM mhtv wrote: '....with an ASSCHER you really need to be in the VS range...' sorry, but this is pure nonsense.---------------- Sorry if i came off like a CLARITY SNOB...what i meant to say is that since an Asscher is easier to see inclusions in a VS stone is a pretty safe bet....again knowing that the clarity grades are done FACE UP there are never any guarantees how the VS2 or an SI1 will look until you inspect it visually yourself...In MY Opinion....I wouldnt feel very confident shopping for an SI1 on the Internet....but that is just my opinion.
Posted: 3/21/2004 12:48:04 PM

P: 3/21/2004 3:10:29 PM
pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003	---------------- On 3/21/2004 12:12:34 PM mhtv wrote: 'If I'm not mistaken, an indented natural can be a spot for dirt to collect.' only if it had significant size. again, an IN can be very very tiny, in which case it would have no detrimental effect on the appearance of the diamond. 'VS would certainly make it easier to have an eye clean assher cut!' or you could get an EYE-CLEAN SI1 and save lots of money! ---------------- An Indented Natural can be an area oils and dirt collect. Does it present a detrimental effect??!! No. Just an area that will require extra attention when cleaning the diamond. If we were talking round brilliant, I would second the SI comment in a heartbeat. Why pay for something you can't see?? Finding an eye clean SI assher is going to be much harder than going VS. Heck, finding a well cut assher is a task in itself! I didn't think you were a clarity snob, BearMan. Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! ____________________________________________________________ Just a regular person trying to be helpful. Consult a Pro prior to purchase!
Posted: 3/21/2004 3:10:29 PM

P: 3/22/2004 9:22:04 AM
mhtv Rough Rock Total Posts: 32 Last Post: 4/26/2004 Member Since: 2/8/2004	what does buying online have to do with not being sure the SI1 is eye-clean????? if you want an eye-clean SI1, you can buy one online, you DO NOT have to stick with the more expensive VS grade to get an eye-clean diamond online. it's funny.... people shop for diamonds online at least partly to save money, then are advised to spend more than they need to, because they're buying online!
Posted: 3/22/2004 9:22:04 AM

P: 3/22/2004 10:19:14 AM
pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003	---------------- On 3/22/2004 9:22:04 AM mhtv wrote: what does buying online have to do with not being sure the SI1 is eye-clean????? if you want an eye-clean SI1, you can buy one online, you DO NOT have to stick with the more expensive VS grade to get an eye-clean diamond online. it's funny.... people shop for diamonds online at least partly to save money, then are advised to spend more than they need to, because they're buying online! ---------------- This was not a Virtual purchase. It was a "Live and in Person" purchase. BearMan had a friend go to Solomon Brothers and look at diamonds to screen for him. Then BearMan drove to Atlanta, to Solomon Brothers, looked at the diamonds in person, and purchased his diamond there. As for advise of buying VS over SI, this comment was particular to this style of cut. OldMiner, aka Dave Atlas, is a REAL expert. ---------------- On 3/2/2004 4:16:06 PM oldminer wrote: Crazy maybe, but I'd take a long look at #2. I detest very thick girdles on diamonds. It adds weight, but no visual dimension. It is wasted, but makes you pay the 2 ct price for a truly below 2ct sized stone. I can't predict about which looks best or if the SI1 is more visible than the VS's clarities, but I would be very careful of eye visibilty in a large diamond with the emerald cut or Asscher faceting style. You may well see inclusions even in VS stones... Depends on size, relief and location of what's in there. In plain English, everyone may take a guess at which is best, but none of us could choose properly without seeing the stones.---------------- Here's a link to the thread for your reference. http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=13274 Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! ____________________________________________________________ Just a regular person trying to be helpful. Consult a Pro prior to purchase!
Posted: 3/22/2004 10:19:14 AM

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