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»  » Diamond Prices and Grading »
 » RockyTalky
»  » please help with CUT advice
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please help with CUT advice |
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| P: 3/19/2004 7:27:21 PM | |
inneedofadvice Rough Rock Total Posts: 5 Last Post: 3/20/2004 Member Since: 3/19/2004 |
Hi! Thank you for taking your time to look at my message. I'm looking to buy the following diamond and would love to get your response about it's cut and price. Looking for a firy diamond. Sarin Report gave it AGS 1 and www.gemappraisers.com 1B. While Holloway Cut Adviser gave it a really low score of 5.6 (light return - good, fire - fair, scintillation - fair, sprd or diam for weight - very good). I'm tottaly confused now. Please, help. Here are the specs: 1.27ct I VS2 Culet-NONE Very Good Very Good Flou-NONE diam 6.94mm (6.93-6.97) depth 4.32mm 62.2% crown 34.6' 14.4% pavil 41.7' 44.2% table 4.03mm 58% culet 0.5% ver. small girdle 1.0thin - 2.4sl.thick 1.6% price: $5400 P.S. Long lines on the edges are dotted (meaning cloud). how significant are these inclusions? how much would they effect general brialance considering their location? are those possible weak/break points? Please help with your advice!!! Thanks a lot!  
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| Posted: 3/19/2004 7:27:21 PM | |
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There are 12 replies to this message. There are 12 replies on this page. |
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| P: 3/19/2004 7:40:07 PM | |
Rhino Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,865 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 3/29/2001 |
WooF! Pass on this dawg. It has the dreaded "ring of death" which is a big white ring of white under the table contributing to tremendous amounts of leakage. I don't care what the AGA or AGS charts say ... you can *see* why this gets it's lousy HCA score.
 Sorry if that's not the answer you were looking for but it's the truth.
Peace,
Rhino |
| Posted: 3/19/2004 7:40:07 PM | |
| P: 3/19/2004 8:08:58 PM | |
lop Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,651 Last Post: 9/7/2009 Member Since: 6/14/2003 |
Agreed! If you do a search on the Pricescope search engine above, there are lots of ideal cut stones in this category like these: http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-4658403# http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/Diamond_Details.aspx?idno=M1001 They may be slightly lower carat weight, but the diameter (which is what you see) is in the same range, and the ideal cut will make them look MUCH better.
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| Posted: 3/19/2004 8:08:58 PM | |
| P: 3/19/2004 9:21:22 PM | |
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inneedofadvice Rough Rock Total Posts: 5 Last Post: 3/20/2004 Member Since: 3/19/2004 |
what do you think is this diamond worth? is it overpriced at $5400? how bad is the white ring??? how much light does it leak because of it?? thanks
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| Posted: 3/19/2004 9:21:22 PM | |
| P: 3/19/2004 9:38:19 PM | |
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inneedofadvice Rough Rock Total Posts: 5 Last Post: 3/20/2004 Member Since: 3/19/2004 |
Is there a place in NYC where i could take it to measure light return/fire from an actual diamond?
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| Posted: 3/19/2004 9:38:19 PM | |
| P: 3/20/2004 1:07:53 AM | |
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Rhino Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,865 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 3/29/2001 |
Yes. There is a place in Long Island NY but I can't recommend them.
 Rhino |
| Posted: 3/20/2004 1:07:53 AM | |
| P: 3/20/2004 8:35:53 AM | |
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
This one has very little chance to 'sparkle' as a diamond should. There are quite a few sellers presenting light return analysis on their diamonds. Good Old Gold is not the only one in NY, although they may well be the ones to apply the most strict quality checks to their stones. Honestly, there is such a long way from this stone and an ideal cut, that you could obtain serious improvement in appearence (light return) without getting, and paying for, the very best 'ideal' cuts. Those inclusions do not seem too bad: clouds should be discrete enough, probably not visible without magnification. The other 'stuff' right on the girdle could be a problem if the girdle becomes fragile there because of it. It is impossible to tell wether the respective included crystals (?) breack the surface on the girdle line or not. However, there are plenty of eye clean SI stones and plenty better cut. Speaking of SI... there are quite a few inclusions on that plot for a VS stone; is this certified by GIA? Just a thought, of course. And another diamond... THIS is a cheaper H&A stone: I-VS2 1.2 cts, HCA 1.6 Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 3/20/2004 8:35:53 AM | |
| P: 3/20/2004 9:21:47 AM | |
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inneedofadvice Rough Rock Total Posts: 5 Last Post: 3/20/2004 Member Since: 3/19/2004 |
Hi, all! thanks for your input! Yes, this is a GIA certified stone. And I'm too embarrassed to admit, it was purchased from a trusted and very reputable family jeweler (who is in diamond cutting business) two days ago. I was insured this is a beautifully cut diamond, not ideal cut, but AGS 1 cut grade. Well, I WISH I knew about this forum before! Considering ideal cut (most light return) specs keep changing and GIA might be coming out with new dimensions, it seems to me that all computer calculations, whlie very helpful, are based on one or another ideal cut theory. According to AGS AND AGA it's a cut 1 diamond and according to HCA and DiamCal it's a really shitty stone. Could please someone explain to me what is exactly wrong with this AGS CUT 1 GRADE diamond (why it's leaking light - crown angle or deapth, etc). And does anyone know a place in NYC that could physicaly measure light return? does anyone even do it? Thank you for your response.
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| Posted: 3/20/2004 9:21:47 AM | |
| P: 3/20/2004 9:45:54 AM | |
Colored Gemstone Nut Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,267 Last Post: 10/1/2009 Member Since: 11/21/2002 |
---------------- InNeedofAdvice: So far in my internet ventures I have dealt with many vendors. Jonathan (aka RHINO) from GoodoldGold.com is based out of NYC and has some of the most sophisticated equipment in doing so, and will provide in store demonstrations for clients. Have dealt with him twice in the past and have been very pleased.. Good luck and keep us posted Edited to Add: In Need of Advice: I was referring to Jonathans knowledge on a possible purchase option. Since you already purchased the stone you may want to explore options of a ruturn policy if you are not happy with it. How does the stone look to your eye's? Josh Rioux |
| Posted: 3/20/2004 9:45:54 AM | |
| P: 3/20/2004 9:48:48 AM | |
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valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003 |
Just a few point.. hoping to explain thing fast: - the AGA chart doe sNOT measure light return. - AGS0 is a wide class, in which great light return and sloppy are feasible. Even among AGS0 diamonds not all have top optical performance. - direct measurements of light return (using things like the Brilliance Scope, Isee2, Ideal Scope) are the most precise way to determone a diamond's optics and it's ranking compared to the best possible. And about the 'ideal' word... Yes, there are as many definitions of it as there are sellers, but light return is just one phisical phenomenon. The variance of the 'ideal' definitions cannot change the basics of optical performance. However, other aspects of cut quality but light return enter some of the definitions of "ideal" cuts. Also each definition is more or less tollerant to less-than-great light return. Whatever variance there is in the way the makers of different testing devices (the 'scopes' above) define 'light return', it does not hinder the ability of their tools to pick up the most brilliant 1-2% of stones out there: a more drastic selection than AGS0, for example. Does this make sense? Good Old Gold does such analysis... (actually any of the tests mentioned). Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian] |
| Posted: 3/20/2004 9:48:48 AM | |
| P: 3/20/2004 5:29:42 PM | |
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inneedofadvice Rough Rock Total Posts: 5 Last Post: 3/20/2004 Member Since: 3/19/2004 |
thanks for your responses. it does make sense. i'll contact jonathan and go in for a test/demonstration. i would love to find out how much light loss (%) my stone has compared to a good firy stone. to answer the question on how this stone looks to my eye is following: 1. it looks great in sunlight - very sparky/firy/playfull. also sends out a dozen or so white dots / reflections on objects around. i'm not sure if it's a diamond or well polished 6-prong white gold setting or if it's a good thing or a bad thing... anyone know? must be a stupid question. 2. in low room light - does not sparkle. looks nice how faces play inside but does not sparkle. i would imagine due to a little amount of light coming in. 3. under an ikea 20watt table lamp - sparkles some what, looks nice, but not as nice as under the sun. I really gotta go see jonathan to see the difference side by side with my own eyes.
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| Posted: 3/20/2004 5:29:42 PM | |
| P: 3/20/2004 5:38:24 PM | |
pqcollectibles Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,441 Last Post: 6/18/2005 Member Since: 2/23/2003 |
---------------- It's a white ring on the computer simulation that Rhino did for you. When you look at your diamond, you'll notice a dark area in the center of the stone under the table. That's the "ring of death". It will be easier to notice if you have your diamond next to a well cut diamond and do a side by side comparison. 
Why use a big word when a diminutive word would be succinct! |
| Posted: 3/20/2004 5:38:24 PM | |
| P: 3/20/2004 5:46:42 PM | |
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phoenixgirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,496 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 3/20/2003 |
Yes, go see Jonathan, or else be happy with your stone. Since you bought it knowing it was not ideal and without doing other research, all of this studying cut charts now is not going to change the make of your stone, which is not great. Remember that it is the interaction of the crown and pavilion angles that makes for great light return. You can have angles within this or that cut grade that are not right for one another. These grades are trying to give a general guideline or range of acceptable angles. They do not mean that every stone that falls within those ranges will perform the same. If all you know about people are their heights and weights, you can probably tell straight off the bat which ones are definitely overweight, but that doesn't mean that everyone who is left is a great-looking, well-proportioned person.
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| Posted: 3/20/2004 5:46:42 PM | |
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