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 » RockyTalky
»  » Pros 'n Cons of Princess Cuts and other such nonsense...
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Pros 'n Cons of Princess Cuts and other such nonsense... |
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| P: 3/9/2004 3:28:42 PM | |
verticalhorizon Ideal Rock Total Posts: 840 Last Post: 3/24/2006 Member Since: 3/9/2004 |
Ok... I've lurked on this site for awhile and now I've registered and ready to make my plea. I *was* prepared to make my purchase of a princess cut diamond for a Vatche X-prong setting until I read some worrisome posts about the fallibility and lustre of Princess cuts in general. Persoanlly, I didn't particularly like the pointy corners either. And when I handled them in the jewelers, I thought they felt particularly delicate. Sooo... 1.) My GF likes the Tiffany's Lucida (who doesn't right?). But the "Lucida" is a Tiffany specific cut. Stores and on-line don't seem to carry as many Aschers or Radiants. Why is that? Are these cuts more prone to visible inclusions, where Round and Princess might hide them? (And therefore more expensive?) 2.) Are Princess cuts really more prone to damage? My GF is particularly clumsy. Not as bright as other cuts? 3.) What rights do you have if your jeweler chips your diamond while mounting it? What steps do you have to take to show/prove it's condition before and after mounting? Do jewelers charge for mounting if you buy the setting from them? 4.) A local jeweler said to me that Princess is becoming very popular as of late and that DeBeers is planning on slowing production down to increase demand soon. Is this just a sales ploy or is there some truth to this allegation? Thanks! DM VH (aka GroomZilla) --- This post was brought to you by the Church of Cut Quality. Note: I am not an expert. Just a friendly neighbor. |
| Posted: 3/9/2004 3:28:42 PM | |
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There are 17 replies to this message. There are 17 replies on this page. |
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| P: 3/9/2004 3:49:33 PM | |
cmcwill Cut Rock Total Posts: 247 Last Post: 1/11/2005 Member Since: 2/26/2004 |
Hi Diagonalman! 1) asschers and radiants are totally different and so there would be separate specs for each stone that you should learn before searching. Radiants come in all shapes and sizes, so it may be hard to find a perfectly square one. The cut of radiants varies from stone to stone...you might want to check out the branded radiant at RCDC.com for the 'brand name cut.' That will help. Asschers have a bit of a step-cut to them, close to the EC, so there is a possibilty that clarity is more important in those...but this doesn't hold true for radiants. 2) I think any stone is prone to damage depending on where its weak spots are. look out for princesses with ex thin, very thin girdles, and inclusions that break the surface of the stone in the girdle. 3) if the jeweler you bought the stone from mounts it, they are usually responsible for damage during mounting. get this in writing before they begin. no one will insure a diamond they didnt sell you that you are having them mount. 4) no clue! maybe LawGem will know. I hope this helps, I'm looking for radiants myself. I started out thinking that princess was 'the saquare stone' and stumbled onto a whole new diamond! Colleen 
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| Posted: 3/9/2004 3:49:33 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 3:54:10 PM | |
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verticalhorizon Ideal Rock Total Posts: 840 Last Post: 3/24/2006 Member Since: 3/9/2004 |
Thanks! I agree with you on Radiants, but I have an added amount of stress in that I know the GF likes square, but not particularly which kind of square stone. I want it to be a surprise, but I wonder if she even knows about the said issues of Princess cuts. I worry about picking the wrong one.
VH (aka GroomZilla) |
| Posted: 3/9/2004 3:54:10 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 4:12:59 PM | |
Nicrez Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,230 Last Post: 10/21/2009 Member Since: 1/21/2004 |
my question to you is what are you looking for and what's your budget? My friend has a princess in an x-prong and it's just NOT a Lucida, and nothing is BUT the Lucida. I good similar stone could be the Lucere, but that's tough to find. Radiants of course are MY choice (as I am getting one) but a Flanders (or the branded Elara) are nice and square...and Hearts on Fire Dream (square) is also nice, but very pricey. The Regent is said to be octogonal and almost rounded but squared...Good Old Gold sells those. Also, some places sell European cuts, and Old Miners, also the cushion cuts. Lots of choices, but they of course don't sell as quickly as a round or princess so it's a specialty market.
Radiants were created to bridge the gap between fancy shapes (squares in this case) and the RB which is HANDS DOWN the sparkliest stone due to it's perfect measurable angles and facets...It's being round that makes it so darn unbeatable in the sparkle department. The Radiant and the "Elara" as well as the Hearts On Fire claim to harnes the brilliance and sparkle of a round in a square cut. They never compare, so make sure that's what she wants. Plus it's a search if you don't want princess. Me personally, I don't like the princess's triangular facets and triangular facets, it's too sharp and severe on my hand...BUT, I like the squareness, so cushion and radiants tend to be my thing. I have been pondering an Elara of HOF, Queen of Hearts (also at GOG), Regents, and even the Gabby diamond, by Gabi Tolkowski, which is square as well...these are all branded stones, just like Lucida, but the premium for them will be less than Lucida (not THAT MUCH LESS, but it will be)
With a carat range and price range I can help figure out your best bets to try out and see...I suggest trying Goog Old Gold first to see what they have, because they are great with shaped and rare stone shapes! Good luck, and Colleen, I was so impressed by your newfound knowledge I almost fell off my chair! YAY YOU! Poor boyfriend, ehe?
  "Sometimes it's OK to throw rocks at girls...as long as they sparkle! |
| Posted: 3/9/2004 4:12:59 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 4:29:28 PM | |
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Robyn12 Cut Rock Total Posts: 153 Last Post: 8/27/2004 Member Since: 11/24/2003 |
Hello, The Lucida is a branded cushion. If your girlfriend likes the Lucida (and you have concerns about the princess) maybe it would be a good idea to look into non-branded cushion cuts instead. You could probably get something that looks very similar to the Lucida this way. In fact, there is a branded cushion which people say is VERY similar to the Lucida -- I think it's called the Lucere (if you want to look it up). The cushion is an older cut so you don't see it as much... but as you can see it's very pretty (and no sharp corners to worry about). Good luck! 
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| Posted: 3/9/2004 4:29:28 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 4:35:58 PM | |
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Nicrez Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,230 Last Post: 10/21/2009 Member Since: 1/21/2004 |
Robyn is that a picture of the Flanders? From what i knw and have seen, the Lucere is cut like an Asscher on the crown...this one seems to be brilliantly cut on the corwn, like a Flanders or Cushion...
Here are some posts on Luceres:
"Sometimes it's OK to throw rocks at girls...as long as they sparkle! |
| Posted: 3/9/2004 4:35:58 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 4:45:11 PM | |
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Robyn12 Cut Rock Total Posts: 153 Last Post: 8/27/2004 Member Since: 11/24/2003 |
---------------- |
| Posted: 3/9/2004 4:45:11 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 5:22:02 PM | |
Hest88 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,679 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 1/22/2003 |
Okay, from what I'm hearing, your GF, like most women out there, like princesses because they like the shape and like Lucidas because they like the shape. Unless you plan on sticking all sorts of technical info under her nose the safest thing to do is to find a jeweler you trust and find the nicest princess or square radiant you can. There are lots of good jewelers here who can tell you if they have a great princess. I wouldn't worry about light return in comparison to a round; all of the women I know with princesses could care less about how their stones perform in comparison to their friends' RBs. They like the shape, and that's that. There are also branded princesses. Both SuperbCert and Diamond Brokers of Florida have branded princesses that supposedly perform as well as you can get. I've never worked with SC, but have found DBOF trustworthy as a vendor. If you really want other options, look at Lucere or the Queen of Hearts (which probably gives better light return than the Lucere). Both should be square enough to please a general Lucida admirer. Good Old Gold sells both, as far as I know. I don't know who else does, off the top of my head. I wouldn't consider any other shapes unless you can run them by her first.
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| Posted: 3/9/2004 5:22:02 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 5:32:28 PM | |
katbadness Cut Rock Total Posts: 459 Last Post: 8/25/2005 Member Since: 1/29/2004 |
I can't seem to find Rhino's post on the different squarish posts. But I do happen to archive the pics on my HD. *** ALL of the following pics are originally posted by Rhino from GOG. So here goes... This one is a Princess cut. 
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| Posted: 3/9/2004 5:32:28 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 5:33:24 PM | |
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katbadness Cut Rock Total Posts: 459 Last Post: 8/25/2005 Member Since: 1/29/2004 |
Lucere
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| Posted: 3/9/2004 5:33:24 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 5:34:27 PM | |
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katbadness Cut Rock Total Posts: 459 Last Post: 8/25/2005 Member Since: 1/29/2004 |
Queen of Hearts
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| Posted: 3/9/2004 5:34:27 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 5:55:08 PM | |
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katbadness Cut Rock Total Posts: 459 Last Post: 8/25/2005 Member Since: 1/29/2004 |
This last one is a Flanders cut.
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| Posted: 3/9/2004 5:55:08 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 7:09:13 PM | |
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verticalhorizon Ideal Rock Total Posts: 840 Last Post: 3/24/2006 Member Since: 3/9/2004 |
Thanks for all the info! Does anyone know the history behind the Flanders? Why haven't I really heard about it? The others are also all great alternatives. I'm definitely sold on moving away from the Princess. VH (aka GroomZilla) |
| Posted: 3/9/2004 7:09:13 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 7:09:22 PM | |
eyesoftexas Cut Rock Total Posts: 141 Last Post: 10/23/2004 Member Since: 2/28/2004 |
I have been doing a ton of homework on the Lucida and here are the prices as of today for some of the listed carat sizes. The Lucida Comparison a) 1.32 ct, I, VS1 $13,500 b) 1.27 ct, I VS1 $12,400 c) 1.31 ct, H, VVS1 $15,500 d) 1.42ct, H, VVS1 $16,700 e) 1.55 ct, H, VVS1 $18,200 f) 1.61 ct, F, VVS1, $26,200 Now I know Tiffany rings are very expensive but the service was great and the rings I looked at were all consistently equal in light return which is an impressive feat in itself. I have heard great things about the Lucere but I also heard that it was priced in the same ball park as the Lucida. EofT |
| Posted: 3/9/2004 7:09:22 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 7:28:15 PM | |
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verticalhorizon Ideal Rock Total Posts: 840 Last Post: 3/24/2006 Member Since: 3/9/2004 |
Oooh... another question is whether or not the Vatche X-Prong will be able to take any square cut diamond? Up to what Length to Width ratio does it become an issue? Past 1.05?... 1.1?
VH (aka GroomZilla) |
| Posted: 3/9/2004 7:28:15 PM | |
| P: 3/9/2004 7:35:19 PM | |
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Nicrez Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,230 Last Post: 10/21/2009 Member Since: 1/21/2004 |
Diagonal man, If your gal wants a square like the Lucida, I say go with the lucere...They both have that octogonal cut. The Vatche x-prong is the closest to the Lucida band there may be around. It fits all types of square stones, as well as round, since they actually make the band fit the stone. I think Whiteflash customizes the setting for you. Other authorized Vatche dealers can too. The Lucida is a nice stone, but on ANY shaped stone, I am never a fan of higher colors. I say if you can get a Lucere, (or any shaped stone) in an F or better (VS2) and get more in size, carat wise, and still get that Tiffany's look, go for it. If having the Tiffany's name will really really make her lifetime, then that's the choice. But you won't be able to get a bigger rock for the same budget, and that's always my last resort...  Also, the L/W ratio of over 1.05 is considered to be NOT square anymore. GIA categorizes over 1.05 as a rectangular cut, and a 1.1 in any princess or squared stone is NOT optimal. It's great in emeralds or radiants, but not in some of the stones like Lucere, Queen of Hearts, Flanders. Those tend to be 1.05 or less... "Sometimes it's OK to throw rocks at girls...as long as they sparkle! |
| Posted: 3/9/2004 7:35:19 PM | |
| P: 3/10/2004 12:47:56 AM | |
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katbadness Cut Rock Total Posts: 459 Last Post: 8/25/2005 Member Since: 1/29/2004 |
---------------- Regarding Flanders, here's a bit of history of Flanders and its branded version -- Elara. There is also an older older thread just a few days ago regarding Flanders.
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| Posted: 3/10/2004 12:47:56 AM | |
| P: 3/10/2004 9:22:39 AM | |
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verticalhorizon Ideal Rock Total Posts: 840 Last Post: 3/24/2006 Member Since: 3/9/2004 |
That's awesome info. Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks to everyone! This board 'rocks.' (hahaha.)
VH (aka GroomZilla) |
| Posted: 3/10/2004 9:22:39 AM | |
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