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Pepper inclusions in diamond

P: 2/7/2004 7:46:50 PM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	Can anyone say what the pepper inclusions sometimes seen in a diamond are? Are they the same as carbon spots or smaller? Are they called pinpoints or do pinpoints have to be white? Are they crystals of what?
Posted: 2/7/2004 7:46:50 PM

There are 27 replies to this message. There are 27 replies on this page.

P: 2/7/2004 8:00:29 PM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,584 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	They are exactly like salt inclusions only black Pyramid. If they are any closer than 3.0065 microns to each other the diamond is likely to explode in a nuclear fusion melt down on the second full moon in a leap year. Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 2/7/2004 8:00:29 PM

P: 2/7/2004 9:16:28 PM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	Okay so they are crystals. Do they usually surround other inclusions in the stone or do they just appear in random places.
Posted: 2/7/2004 9:16:28 PM

P: 2/8/2004 1:56:22 AM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,584 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	Depends P, it depends - on how God felt, sometimes he throws pepper about, other times salt. Rarely does one inclusion know what the others were doing at the time of crystallization, but the conditions at the time mean that more of the same type are likely to form. Get enough of that pepper and BOOM But even though you are paraoniod about such details Pyramid, the inclusions can be very beautiful under high mag Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 2/8/2004 1:56:22 AM

P: 2/8/2004 8:27:53 AM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	Thanks Cut Nut.
Posted: 2/8/2004 8:27:53 AM

P: 2/8/2004 8:43:10 AM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 2/8/2004 8:43:10 AM

P: 2/8/2004 8:43:48 AM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 2/8/2004 8:43:48 AM

P: 6/14/2005 8:01:05 AM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	CutNut wrote: Get enough of that pepper and BOOM Garry H does more pepper inclusions together have an effect upon the diamond apart from appearance wise or are you only just joking here?
Posted: 6/14/2005 8:01:05 AM

P: 6/14/2005 8:45:37 AM
Capitol Bill Cut Rock Total Posts: 187 Last Post: 9/16/2006 Member Since: 6/7/2005	pyramid, Looks like you caught Garry at the end of a long day. But I thank him for the good chuckle this morning. Rest assured, the diamond with "pepper" inclusions is nonexplosive and safe to wear. Just try to avoid diamonds with dynamitine lustre . Bill IceMine.com
Posted: 6/14/2005 8:45:37 AM

P: 6/14/2005 9:32:54 AM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	Thanks CapitoLBill. This is an old post not what Garry wrote today. Does anyone know if the pictures Valeria101 posted are magnification of just one black pinpoint or a larger cluster or a single crystal?
Posted: 6/14/2005 9:32:54 AM

P: 6/14/2005 10:27:48 AM
Capitol Bill Cut Rock Total Posts: 187 Last Post: 9/16/2006 Member Since: 6/7/2005	Doh! That's the second time I've responded to an old thread that's been bumped. Gotta remember to look for those dates! To attempt to answer your question, pyramid -- Ana's images appear to be very colorful photomicrographs that were taken under extremely high power. They also sort of resemble something I'd see in a modern art gallery and wince at because I can't "appreciate" modern art . If I were to guess, I would entitle the first masterpiece "polish lines with a surface reaching (dark) crystal in lower left quadrant." The second image would be entitled "included dark crystal tossing baby crystal in the air." Or they could be photomicrographs of what my table looks like after lunch . Bill IceMine.com
Posted: 6/14/2005 10:27:48 AM

P: 6/14/2005 10:47:06 AM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	The second one looks like a pier to me on the left so I would name it jetty to the dark unknown.
Posted: 6/14/2005 10:47:06 AM

P: 6/15/2005 7:03:42 AM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	Does anyone know where to find more of these coloured pictures?
Posted: 6/15/2005 7:03:42 AM

P: 6/15/2005 8:06:55 AM
MerKaBa Rough Rock Total Posts: 23 Last Post: 6/19/2005 Member Since: 6/9/2004	Looks like Scanning Electron Micrograph (SEM) images my friend used to take in college. It is a very thin slice of a mineral sample blown up thousands of times. Minerals create some interesting patterns. Especially mixtures of minerals. Run a seach for SEM and crystals or minerals. Peace, love, diamonds and all the money in between,
Posted: 6/15/2005 8:06:55 AM

P: 6/15/2005 9:02:21 AM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,584 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	They are thin slides of rocks viewed thru a microscope with crossed polars (polaroid). here are some google images http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-20,GGLG:en&q=crossed+polars Have fun. Actually Pyramid you would love to do this: 1. get old or cheap pair polaroid sun glasses. 2. break and take the 2 lenses 3. note when you hold them 90 degrees to each other and look thru the world goes dark 4. tape one to your loupe and the other X'ed to a light source 5. Examine your gem with the crossed poalroid light (cut out as much other light as you can for max brightness and have fun Try bending a plastic ruler and see the stress patterns Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 6/15/2005 9:02:21 AM

P: 6/15/2005 3:45:57 PM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	Thank you MerKaBa and Garry H. I will have to try that thing with the ruler and with the sunglasses. I do like those google pictures
Posted: 6/15/2005 3:45:57 PM

P: 6/16/2005 6:44:45 AM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	Date: 6/14/2005 8:01:05 AM Author: pyramid CutNut wrote: Get enough of that pepper and BOOM Garry H does more pepper inclusions together have an effect upon the diamond apart from appearance wise or are you only just joking here? What I am asking is would a cluster of pepper inclusions together be worse than say 3 pepper inclusions?
Posted: 6/16/2005 6:44:45 AM

P: 6/16/2005 7:34:10 AM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,584 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	10 pieces of Black Pepper close together are nothing compared to a peice of Red Chilli Pepper like this one Pyramid. This can really hurt. You should never get a diamond like this close to a babies mouth. Just in case it blows Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 6/16/2005 7:34:10 AM

P: 6/16/2005 8:06:07 AM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002
Posted: 6/16/2005 8:06:07 AM

P: 6/16/2005 9:13:53 AM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	Garry H It was supposed to be a serious question but then I know that you think inclusions do not affect the durability of diamond.
Posted: 6/16/2005 9:13:53 AM

P: 6/16/2005 11:50:48 AM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,931 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	haha Pyramid, I have missed you and your technical obscure questions!!! is it my imagination or were you gone/lurking for a while? ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 6/16/2005 11:50:48 AM

P: 6/16/2005 2:08:51 PM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	Hi Mara. Yes I have been lurking for a while and had promised myself not to come to these boards too much until I am ready to buy but I just cannot seem to stay away
Posted: 6/16/2005 2:08:51 PM

P: 6/16/2005 4:20:11 PM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	Date: 6/16/2005 9:13:53 AM Author: pyramid Garry H It was supposed to be a serious question but then I know that you think inclusions do not affect the durability of diamond.
Posted: 6/16/2005 4:20:11 PM

P: 6/17/2005 12:11:08 AM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,584 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	Type II diamonds have the best cleavage and tend to have the least inclusions. Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 6/17/2005 12:11:08 AM

P: 6/17/2005 1:17:10 AM
Nicrez Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,230 Last Post: 10/21/2009 Member Since: 1/21/2004	Morning Gary! Thanks for the usual laugh... Hey Pyramid, wrap your head around this article, you may like it. Following up on Gary's thread. I read an interesting article on Impurities and Type I and Type II diamonds by two very notable scientists. It was in the Smithsonian/NASA site below. Here's the abstract: (Enjoy!) Natural diamonds have been thinned sufficiently by oxidation at 750 ^circC in oxygen or at 1350 ^circC in carbon dioxide for examination by transmission electron microscopy. Type I and type II diamonds as classified by infra-red and ultra-violet absorption measurements have been investigated and a difference in the nature of the imperfections in the two types has been found. Impurity platelets are present on {100} planes in type I diamonds and the relevant impurity has been identified as most probably nitrogen, since the density of platelets can be explained only by the high concentrations of nitrogen found in such diamonds by other workers. The presence of the nitrogen in platelet form can explain anomalous X-ray spikes reported around the normal Laue spots and also the fact that the nitrogen has been found to be present in a non-paramagnetic form. Small dislocation loops have been revealed on {111} planes near the nitrogen platelets and have been attributed to the condensation of vacancies following the formation of the platelets. Both these types of imperfection are absent in type II diamonds. Defects common to both types are dislocations and also long narrow dislocation dipoles which are considered to be formed by the movement of screw dislocations containing long jogs through the crystal at high temperatures. It is suggested that type II diamonds may have grown in nitrogen-free conditions at temperatures similar to those required for type I diamonds and have cooled slowly or they may have grown at lower temperatures than type I diamonds. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=1962RSPSA.270..538E&db_key=GEN "Sometimes it's OK to throw rocks at girls...as long as they sparkle! " Nicrez, G.G., A.J.P.
Posted: 6/17/2005 1:17:10 AM

P: 6/17/2005 8:28:04 AM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	Wow thanks Garry and Nicrez. So how does one go about buying a type II diamond, I suppose we just look for more included diamonds. Can an appraiser tell if the diamond is type I or type II when a diamond is being examined by them?
Posted: 6/17/2005 8:28:04 AM

P: 6/17/2005 9:36:19 AM
Capitol Bill Cut Rock Total Posts: 187 Last Post: 9/16/2006 Member Since: 6/7/2005	Wow thanks Garry and Nicrez. So how does one go about buying a type II diamond, I suppose we just look for more included diamonds. Can an appraiser tell if the diamond is type I or type II when a diamond is being examined by them? That's easy, Pyramid. If you want a type II diamond, just buy an HPHT treated stone or buy a lab created diamond. Or if you really want to splurge for a type IIb, here's one you can check out: http://www.mnh.si.edu/museum/VirtualTour/Tour/Second/Hope/index.html And here's an interesting article on a basic method of type I / type II identification: http://www.professionaljeweler.com/archives/articles/2003/nov03/1103dg.html Bill IceMine.com
Posted: 6/17/2005 9:36:19 AM

P: 6/17/2005 9:48:24 AM
Pyramid Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,914 Last Post: 11/11/2009 Member Since: 11/10/2002	Thanks CapitolBill I only like natural diamonds and don't like coloured diamonds (which I am relieved about). Interesting though that it states in the article that blue flourescence is one way of telling the diamond is natural. Now, maybe if I could afford the Hope Diamond I would start to like coloured diamonds but then it has bad luck associated with it. I am not overly superstitious but I don't think I could live with that one.
Posted: 6/17/2005 9:48:24 AM

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