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P: 6/16/2009 11:05:31 PM
FancyDiamond Cut Rock Total Posts: 306 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 6/16/2009	I am looking for a great quality 2.0-2.25 Carat round diamond that sparkles a lot. Don't know anything about diamonds, so I do not even know how to ask questions. To help me start, perhaps tell me which diamond is better value and why? 2.21 carat, D color, VVS2 Clarity, GIA report, Ex cut, Ex symmetry, Ex polish, Medium Blue Florescence, 61.4% Depth, 56% Table, 34.5 degree Crown, 41.0 degrees Pavilion, (HCA is Ex Liht return, VG Fire, VG Scint, and VG spread, TIC = 1.8 Ex) $54,136. Sold by Blue Nile LD00339396 2.20 carat, E color, VS1, AGS Report, ideal cut/symmetry, and ideal polish, no florescense, 61% depth, 56% Table, 34.6 degrees Crown, 40.7 degrees Pavilion, (TIC = 1.0-Ex, Ex, Ex, Ex, and VG for spread) $55,928. Sold by Whiteflash Please do a search on these diamonds to look up their reports for the photos and diamonds and arrows. I have no clues about how to tell if any one is good. Thanks in advance for your help.
Posted: 6/16/2009 11:05:31 PM

There are 13 replies to this message. There are 13 replies on this page.

P: 6/16/2009 11:18:35 PM
Kaleigh Ideal Rock Total Posts: 25,920 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 11/18/2004	Date: 6/16/2009 11:05:31 PM Author:FancyDiamond I am looking for a great quality 2.0-2.25 Carat round diamond that sparkles a lot. Don't know anything about diamonds, so I do not even know how to ask questions. To help me start, perhaps tell me which diamond is better value and why? 2.21 carat, D color, VVS2 Clarity, GIA report, Ex cut, Ex symmetry, Ex polish, Medium Blue Florescence, 61.4% Depth, 56% Table, 34.5 degree Crown, 41.0 degrees Pavilion, (HCA is Ex Liht return, VG Fire, VG Scint, and VG spread, TIC = 1.8 Ex) $54,136. Sold by Blue Nile LD00339396 2.20 carat, E color, VS1, AGS Report, ideal cut/symmetry, and ideal polish, no florescense, 61% depth, 56% Table, 34.6 degrees Crown, 40.7 degrees Pavilion, (TIC = 1.0-Ex, Ex, Ex, Ex, and VG for spread) $55,928. Sold by Whiteflash Please do a search on these diamonds to look up their reports for the photos and diamonds and arrows. I have no clues about how to tell if any one is good. Thanks in advance for your help. Loving the 2.20 from WF. ____________________________ Piece of cake and a candle. ng gift
Posted: 6/16/2009 11:18:35 PM

P: 6/16/2009 11:26:17 PM
FancyDiamond Cut Rock Total Posts: 306 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 6/16/2009	Thanks, Kaleigh. Would you mind telling me why you prefer the second one?
Posted: 6/16/2009 11:26:17 PM

P: 6/16/2009 11:27:46 PM
Kaleigh Ideal Rock Total Posts: 25,920 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 11/18/2004	The specs and the company. I know WF have bought from them, they give you all the info you need... BN not so much... ____________________________ Piece of cake and a candle. ng gift
Posted: 6/16/2009 11:27:46 PM

P: 6/16/2009 11:32:15 PM
FancyDiamond Cut Rock Total Posts: 306 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 6/16/2009	Please excuse me for my ignorance. Which parts of the spec do you like better? Both the color and clarity of the 2nd diamond are one grade lower. The cut (symmetry and polish) is excellent in both diamonds. Does the second diamond really sparkle a lot more because of its lower HCA?
Posted: 6/16/2009 11:32:15 PM

P: 6/16/2009 11:57:03 PM
jet2ks Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,581 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 2/4/2009	Not speaking for Kaleigh, but I would pick the second one, also. A large part of that is the vendor. As far as specs, the slightly shallower pavillion angle on the second is a better compliment to a crown angle of 34.5-34.6 for optimum light performance. With the naked eye, I am never going to be able to tell the difference between D and E color or between VVS2 and VS1 clarity. Since I can't tell the difference, why consider those factors in the decision? The other factor is that GIA rounds the numbers to a much greater degree than AGS. Without being able to view IS or ASET images, which BN does not provide, the numbers on the second are a safer choice. HCA is a rejection tool, not a selection tool. As long as the diamond scores below 2, it is worth examining further. A lower score does not mean more sparkle and better performance. Any of my opinions are worth exactly what you paid for them. "The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." Benjamin Franklin
Posted: 6/16/2009 11:57:03 PM

P: 6/17/2009 12:43:41 AM
FancyDiamond Cut Rock Total Posts: 306 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 6/16/2009	jets2ks, Thanks for your explanation. I am slowly learning and appreciating more about the spec.
Posted: 6/17/2009 12:43:41 AM

P: 6/17/2009 4:49:23 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,280 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 6/16/2009 11:57:03 PM Author: jet2ks Not speaking for Kaleigh, but I would pick the second one, also. A large part of that is the vendor. As far as specs, the slightly shallower pavillion angle on the second is a better compliment to a crown angle of 34.5-34.6 for optimum light performance. With the naked eye, I am never going to be able to tell the difference between D and E color or between VVS2 and VS1 clarity. Since I can't tell the difference, why consider those factors in the decision? The other factor is that GIA rounds the numbers to a much greater degree than AGS. Without being able to view IS or ASET images, which BN does not provide, the numbers on the second are a safer choice. HCA is a rejection tool, not a selection tool. As long as the diamond scores below 2, it is worth examining further. A lower score does not mean more sparkle and better performance. Good post Jet! Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 6/17/2009 4:49:23 AM

P: 6/17/2009 8:34:20 AM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 6/16/2009 11:05:31 PM Author:FancyDiamond I am looking for a great quality 2.0-2.25 Carat round diamond that sparkles a lot. Don't know anything about diamonds, so I do not even know how to ask questions. To help me start, perhaps tell me which diamond is better value and why? Hi FD, You have gotten some good advice on your choices so far, I would also pick the second one. Since I am gleaning from your post you are very new to this, I thought I would elaborate just a bit. Then you will be able to make a more informed decision. Aside from the cut of a stone, which is truly the biggest factor on what makes a stone sparkle, the color and clarity, while something that "can" be personal, often aren't so much, but are assumed to be important. I and many others were brought up believing those were most important for a "nice" diamond. In reality, not so much. So, I noticed you have picked stones, especially the first, in the upper range of things. What this does, most of all, is raise the price of the stone. As far as clarity goes, you can have an F VVS1 and an F VS2 both be eyeclean. Even some SI1's are totally eyeclean. In other words, in looking at the stone with the naked eye, you can't see any inclusions. But the price difference will be many thousands of dollars different. So, many are of the thinking that why should one pay more for what one can't see? That's something you should decide for yourself, are you wanting ultra high clarity or does it not really matter if it's eyeclean. Next is color. From D to F, the vast majority of people can't tell a difference. So why pay for a D when an F looks the same, because again, all it really does is raise the price. A G is at the top of near colorless range, and is still safe at almost any size and shape. So it's a nice sweet spot for many. It lowers the price a nice bit, but still shows up very white. So, I thought that might help you understand the selections I will throw in here. They are very nice stones, but can save you some serious money for the same look that your first WF stone would (some more than others, there's not a lot out there in this size). If they do not interest you, please feel free to ignore! http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1018780.htm# This one is not a branded stone, but is still very nice. It would save you quite a bit (over half), and I'm not sure if you could tell the difference between this and an ACA. Just thought I'd throw it in the mix. http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2128405.htm# If eyeclean. (the vendor can look at it and tell you) Another non branded. http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2106443.htm# Bankwire is the discount. http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/4601/ Another very well cut stone, if eyeclean, would save you quite a bundle. http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/5302/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 6/17/2009 8:34:20 AM

P: 6/18/2009 12:18:07 AM
FancyDiamond Cut Rock Total Posts: 306 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 6/16/2009	Dear Ellen, Thank you for taking time to give me diamond suggestions. You are very sweet and kind. Taking your advice, I shall lower my color and clarity choices for better price and/or size, while keeping cut as high as possible. I know you make a lot of sense, but I still have a hard time going for any color lower than F and clarity lower than VS1. Remember, F color and VS1 are already quite a few steps down from D color and VVS1. Give me time. With more research, I may lower my spec choices further.
Posted: 6/18/2009 12:18:07 AM

P: 6/18/2009 12:23:29 AM
Dancing Fire Ideal Rock Total Posts: 10,227 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 4/3/2004	a well cut 2 ct F VS1 would be very nice it is always harder to find a "mind clean" stone than a eye clean stone.
Posted: 6/18/2009 12:23:29 AM

P: 6/18/2009 3:33:08 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,280 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 6/18/2009 12:18:07 AM Author: FancyDiamond Dear Ellen, Thank you for taking time to give me diamond suggestions. You are very sweet and kind. Taking your advice, I shall lower my color and clarity choices for better price and/or size, while keeping cut as high as possible. I know you make a lot of sense, but I still have a hard time going for any color lower than F and clarity lower than VS1. Remember, F color and VS1 are already quite a few steps down from D color and VVS1. Give me time. With more research, I may lower my spec choices further. She is, and she is a top dedicated prosumer who has tons of experience helping others here, you will do well to seek her advice! If you want to stick to high colour and clarity thats fine but just be aware you can lower both without visual sacrifice if the cut is great. Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 6/18/2009 3:33:08 AM

P: 6/18/2009 8:10:03 AM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 6/18/2009 12:18:07 AM Author: FancyDiamond Dear Ellen, Thank you for taking time to give me diamond suggestions. You are very sweet and kind. Taking your advice, I shall lower my color and clarity choices for better price and/or size, while keeping cut as high as possible. I know you make a lot of sense, but I still have a hard time going for any color lower than F and clarity lower than VS1. Remember, F color and VS1 are already quite a few steps down from D color and VVS1. Give me time. With more research, I may lower my spec choices further. You're quite welcome FD. And thank you for your kind words! Something else that might help you determine your comfort level is going to a retail store and looking at some really well cut stones, if you haven't already. Hearts on Fire would be a fairly good representation (though they are not all created equal) of what you would be looking at in these types of stones we have here online. And make sure you look at them in natural lighting, like by a window, jeweler lighting will mask the true appearance. Also, here is a very helpful video on color, this may help too. There's a great face up shot at the end. http://vimeo.com/3288695 And since I think a picture is always worth a thousand words, I'll leave you with one I have used often to illustrate what won't necessarily show when you have a very well cut stone. This is compliments of one of our posters, LynnB. It's a 2.36 J SI2, though one would never guess. (just for illustration, I'm not suggesting you go this low!) At any rate, take your time, explore options, and have fun! Thank you Miss Lorele! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 6/18/2009 8:10:03 AM

P: 6/18/2009 1:55:48 PM
the tree sees Cut Rock Total Posts: 134 Last Post: 7/1/2009 Member Since: 6/13/2009	FD, Just to add to Ellen's post, check out this gorgeous 2.35 ct J VS2 posted by MoonRiver. Jason
Posted: 6/18/2009 1:55:48 PM

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