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» Comment on this Interesting Diamond

Comment on this Interesting Diamond

P: 1/9/2004 6:56:59 AM
mdx Ideal Rock Total Posts: 570 Last Post: 11/29/2007 Member Since: 3/1/2002	Please comment on this diamond as you would if it was presented by a consumer looking for advise. There is something very interesting about this diamond I would like to demonstrate after a few regulars have commented on the potential. Consider if these dimensions could possibly display Hearts & Arrows. How should it look with an Idealscope, (Diamcalc users) Allow a bit of time for the reply for time difference between USA and Aus Weight: 0.703 GIA Color: F Clarity: VS2 Symmetry: Excellent Polish: Excellent Diam avg. 5.67 Total Depth: 3.49 mm – 61.6% Pavilion Depth: 2.42mm 42.6% Pavilion Angle: 40.6 (40.5 – 40.7) Crown Height 0.85mm 14.9% Crown Angle: 34.3 (33.9 – 34.8) Table Size: 56% Culet 0.7% Very Small Girdle Avg: Sl.Thick Johan Melbourne Diamond Exchange Ltd (Australia) Diamond Exchange Ltd. (Australia)
Posted: 1/9/2004 6:56:59 AM

There are 21 replies to this message. There are 21 replies on this page.

P: 1/9/2004 8:13:45 AM
Rank Amateur Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,547 Last Post: 5/5/2009 Member Since: 2/26/2003	Very interesting! It must not be as good as it looks on paper.
Posted: 1/9/2004 8:13:45 AM

P: 1/9/2004 10:55:55 AM
oldminer Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,964 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 9/4/2000	I see a Sl. thick girdle...Not much else seem "off". I also suspect some issue not addressed by parameters. What is it? CURIOUS! David S. Atlas GG(GIA), ASG, Sr. Mbr. NAJA www.datlas.com
Posted: 1/9/2004 10:55:55 AM

P: 1/9/2004 11:53:24 AM
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002	The numbers of the stone look amazing......so if I were a consumer, I'd definitely give it consideration. To me, that means sending it to an independent appraiser to make sure it performs as well as the numbers suggest it should. Why? Because I realize that numbers are only part of the story......they are a tool to weed out poor performs, not a tool to conclusive identify strong performance. That has to be done by eye. _____________________ Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Posted: 1/9/2004 11:53:24 AM

P: 1/9/2004 1:57:02 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,906 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	Is it just me or is the crown angle range quite wide? Other than that, things look okay from #'s except for slightly thick girdle, but I would want more information (E.g. pictures, IS, Sarin, etc before buying). ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 1/9/2004 1:57:02 PM

P: 1/9/2004 2:31:08 PM
canadiangrrl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 787 Last Post: 3/19/2008 Member Since: 6/10/2003	The girdle average sends up a tiny red flag.... Sursum Corda! Mess with Texas.
Posted: 1/9/2004 2:31:08 PM

P: 1/9/2004 2:34:58 PM
Giangi Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,530 Last Post: 10/29/2006 Member Since: 1/23/2003	Looks pretty thing. Why did you write sl thick instead of giving us the max/min%? _____________ Omnia Mea Mecum Porto. Giangi
Posted: 1/9/2004 2:34:58 PM

P: 1/9/2004 3:32:30 PM
caratgirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 634 Last Post: 12/22/2004 Member Since: 1/1/2003	Looks fine to me...I am looking forward to hearing what the problem is with this stone. The girdle is a bit thicker than I would like, but still should be okay. The one thing that you did not post was the diameter numbers - just an average. If I had to guess at a problem, it might be a bit out of round? Caratgirl Just a Diamond Lover
Posted: 1/9/2004 3:32:30 PM

P: 1/9/2004 3:34:54 PM
mdx Ideal Rock Total Posts: 570 Last Post: 11/29/2007 Member Since: 3/1/2002	Ok guys here is the Ideal scope Diamcalc image, Yes Giani the max girdle is pretty thick , but that’s not the problem, The next post will show the reason this stone is such a dog. Johan Diamond Exchange Ltd. (Australia)
Posted: 1/9/2004 3:34:54 PM

P: 1/9/2004 3:48:32 PM
mdx Ideal Rock Total Posts: 570 Last Post: 11/29/2007 Member Since: 3/1/2002	Aljdewey is spot on. The numbers must be used to eliminate poor performers, Expert appraisal is critical and so is a return policy. What I think happened here is the cutter was cutting for an AGS 0 and found he would not make 0.70ct. To retain the weight and fool the numbers he placed very small lower girdle facets polishing them to perfect symmetry and surface finish. Then to cap it all he hid the stone behind the credibility of a GIA cert. Note the large main Pavilion facets and small lower girdle facets. Visually the diamond has very strange and ugly twinkle if you rock it under a diamond light Interesting ? Johan Diamond Exchange Ltd. (Australia)
Posted: 1/9/2004 3:48:32 PM

P: 1/9/2004 3:51:48 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,906 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	Interesting Johan. From your experience, are stones like this that are meant to fool by numbers typical or are they more remote? Good example to show that even more so than just extra numbers....an IdealScope image of the stone would come in very handy. You would see as similar to the DC image that this stone has the RING OF DEATH (do I get $5 CG?) and pass it up ASAP. ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 1/9/2004 3:51:48 PM

P: 1/9/2004 4:01:17 PM
mdx Ideal Rock Total Posts: 570 Last Post: 11/29/2007 Member Since: 3/1/2002	Mara Luckily we don’t see it that often, most cutters looking for weight just blatantly cut heavy stones. You are right about the Ideal-scope these stones look terrible through them, Unfortunately our dispatch dept returned the stone to the dealer before we had a chance to photograph it, We just have the Sarin file on record. Johan Diamond Exchange Ltd. (Australia)
Posted: 1/9/2004 4:01:17 PM

P: 1/9/2004 4:17:24 PM
caratgirl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 634 Last Post: 12/22/2004 Member Since: 1/1/2003	I believe that Al was handing those out, Mara, I was just heavily discounting. Caratgirl Just a Diamond Lover
Posted: 1/9/2004 4:17:24 PM

P: 1/9/2004 4:19:22 PM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	Great example... and greately appreciated down here There are two more of these among GOG's "educational diamonds": of course, there isn't much one can say using the usual numbers to begin with - just as you ere saying. So there wasn't much for me to do than see that cup of cofee get empty and hope you will post the end of the story . It seems to me that this stone involved a pretty strange cutting decission, since, in the end, neither light retention nor light return came up to the max. I would be happy to see more of these: I bet this can happen only if more H&As are cut in the first place. Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 1/9/2004 4:19:22 PM

P: 1/9/2004 7:29:29 PM
canadiangrrl Ideal Rock Total Posts: 787 Last Post: 3/19/2008 Member Since: 6/10/2003	Wow. That's one freaky lookin' stone. Just goes to prove what often gets said around here - the numbers can only tell you so much, and even then, they don't tell the full story at times. And no, Mara, you don't get a fiver, but you do get another free drink next summer/fall when you're in MD. Sursum Corda! Mess with Texas.
Posted: 1/9/2004 7:29:29 PM

P: 1/9/2004 9:41:25 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,906 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	CG....so you're keeping tabs on this stuff right? I don't want you welching on my free drinks!!! (caratg...hee hee my question was aimed towards the drunk Canadian over in the corner...) ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 1/9/2004 9:41:25 PM

P: 1/11/2004 4:04:10 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	Can I rest my case now? Thanks MDX - interesting. I wonder where in circulation this diamond will end up?
Posted: 1/11/2004 4:04:10 PM

P: 1/11/2004 4:08:56 PM
fire&ice Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,827 Last Post: 3/30/2009 Member Since: 7/22/2002	---------------- On 1/9/2004 3:48:32 PM mdx wrote: What I think happened here is the cutter was cutting for an AGS 0 and found he would not make 0.70ct. To retain the weight and fool the numbers he placed very small lower girdle facets polishing them to perfect symmetry and surface finish. Then to cap it all he hid the stone behind the credibility of a GIA cert. Interesting ? Johan ---------------- Yes, Johan - very interesting. Would it be a leap of faith to say that hiding weight in the pavillion (cutting a stone deeper) is less benign that faceting the pavillion stones in such a matter? I guess what I am saying is that - a tad deeper cut stone to retain carat weight (though losing mm/appearance) is visually more pleasing than this carat weight retaining "trick"?
Posted: 1/11/2004 4:08:56 PM

P: 1/11/2004 4:12:40 PM
Giangi Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,530 Last Post: 10/29/2006 Member Since: 1/23/2003	This is an interesting stone.. Such beautiful numbers and such a dog! _____________ Omnia Mea Mecum Porto. Giangi
Posted: 1/11/2004 4:12:40 PM

P: 1/11/2004 4:35:03 PM
Rhino Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,865 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 3/29/2001	MDX That is a PERFECT example why you can't rely on Sarin data alone, that is if a person is truly seeking the most beautiful rock they can get for the $$$. The #'s can look cherry and the minor facet cutting can screw the whole thing up (depending upon the look you're after). A 34.3/40.6 combo will not produce a ring of death although 40.6 is starting to get on the shallow side of my preferences. Those lower girdles look to be around the 72-73% zone? If you have the Sarin DiaMension hardware with the DiaVision software I can upload a couple of files for ya that'll show ya min/max lower girdle angles & %, min/max upper girdle angles & % as well. I know you already get stars. Peace, Rhino Rhino Good Old Gold
Posted: 1/11/2004 4:35:03 PM

P: 1/11/2004 4:36:22 PM
Rhino Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,865 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 3/29/2001	---------------- On 1/9/2004 3:51:48 PM Mara wrote: Interesting Johan. From your experience, are stones like this that are meant to fool by numbers typical or are they more remote? Good example to show that even more so than just extra numbers....an IdealScope image of the stone would come in very handy. You would see as similar to the DC image that this stone has the RING OF DEATH (do I get $5 CG?) and pass it up ASAP. ---------------- That depends on the factory Mara. There are certain factories that cut these kind of stones consistently while some can be a mixed bag. Rhino Rhino Good Old Gold
Posted: 1/11/2004 4:36:22 PM

P: 1/11/2004 8:00:47 PM
mdx Ideal Rock Total Posts: 570 Last Post: 11/29/2007 Member Since: 3/1/2002	---------------- On 1/11/2004 4:35:03 PM Rhino wrote: MDX If you have the Sarin DiaMension hardware with the DiaVision software I can upload a couple of files for ya that'll show ya min/max lower girdle angles & %, min/max upper girdle angles & % as well. I know you already get stars. Peace, Rhino---------------- Hi Jonathan Certainly would appreciate the files. Yes we do have Sarin hardware and software. Kind Regards Johan Diamond Exchange Ltd. (Australia)
Posted: 1/11/2004 8:00:47 PM

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