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 IGC grading - any opinions?
P:  6/5/2009 10:10:55 AM  
dinamit
dinamit

Cut Rock
Total Posts: 225
Last Post: 11/16/2009
Member Since: 5/16/2009
 
 		Hi there,

I've come across a stone certified by IGC but I've never heard of the International Gemological Laboratories; only of IGI.

Does anyone have experience with stones graded by IGC, an opinion, or information as to how accurate a lab it is?

Thanks!

 
Posted:  6/5/2009 10:10:55 AM

 There are 23 replies to this message.  There are 23 replies on this page.
P: 6/5/2009 10:33:43 AM
Lorelei
Lorelei

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 34,228
Last Post: 11/23/2009
Member Since: 4/30/2005
 
 		IGC have labs in Russia, India and Israel, more here  http://www.igc-gem.com/ 

Apparently they are thought to be softer on grading than the top two labs GIA and AGS,  so an independant appraisal on such a diamond might be prudent, and make the sale final on it checking out to your satisfaction ( get this in writing).

Appraisers tool

http://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx









Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be...
- Stephanie M Thorn
Posted:  6/5/2009 10:33:43 AM
P: 6/5/2009 2:23:06 PM
dinamit
dinamit

Cut Rock
Total Posts: 225
Last Post: 11/16/2009
Member Since: 5/16/2009
 
 		Lorelei, thanks so much. I am in the UK, so  unfortunately the appraisers index link you have shared is no use to me.

I am absolutely blown away by how well oranised and developed diamond trade in the US is. I know you guys constitute the world's bigest market, but you can't imagine how poor things are here in comparison. There are no independent appraisers, I've called some top guys to check this out in disbelief and they confirmed this. There is no reputable independent laboratories, and worst of all, UK regulations allow retailers to sell diamonds by only making claims about colour and clarity; getting info on the cut is near impossible. Ofcourse, it is possible to get certificated diamonds here, but the bulk of high street shops sell uncertificated ones and yet call themselves 'diamond experts'. Sadly, many people aren't educated enough, trust the retailers and go for these stones no questions asked. Even in Hatton Garden, London's diamond quarter, many jewellers sell uncertificated diamonds at prices much higher than certificated ones in the US. Should one wish to buy a certificated stone, they have to pay a premium price, without necessarily purchasing a good stone.

Anyway, apologies for this winge, I just had to get this off my chest. We are years behind and I hope something improves here too. I guess if the public becomes more savvy and informed, they will demand better deals.

If I am being ignorant, and someone would like to add something contrary to the above, I'd be very intrested to read it.

Thanks god for this forum.

All the best.
Posted:  6/5/2009 2:23:06 PM
P: 6/5/2009 2:30:00 PM
Stone-cold11
Stone-cold11

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 6,900
Last Post: 11/23/2009
Member Since: 9/9/2008
 
 		Actually Lorelei is from UK I believe.

Posted:  6/5/2009 2:30:00 PM
P: 6/5/2009 2:31:00 PM
Lorelei
Lorelei

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 34,228
Last Post: 11/23/2009
Member Since: 4/30/2005
 
Date: 6/5/2009 2:30:00 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Actually Lorelei is from UK I believe.

I am indeed!









Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be...
- Stephanie M Thorn
Posted:  6/5/2009 2:31:00 PM
P: 6/5/2009 2:33:18 PM
Lorelei
Lorelei

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 34,228
Last Post: 11/23/2009
Member Since: 4/30/2005
 
Date: 6/5/2009 2:23:06 PM
Author: dinamit
Lorelei, thanks so much. I am in the UK, so unfortunately the appraisers index link you have shared is no use to me.

I am absolutely blown away by how well oranised and developed diamond trade in the US is. I know you guys constitute the world's bigest market, but you can't imagine how poor things are here in comparison. There are no independent appraisers, I've called some top guys to check this out in disbelief and they confirmed this. There is no reputable independent laboratories, and worst of all, UK regulations allow retailers to sell diamonds by only making claims about colour and clarity; getting info on the cut is near impossible. Ofcourse, it is possible to get certificated diamonds here, but the bulk of high street shops sell uncertificated ones and yet call themselves 'diamond experts'. Sadly, many people aren't educated enough, trust the retailers and go for these stones no questions asked. Even in Hatton Garden, London's diamond quarter, many jewellers sell uncertificated diamonds at prices much higher than certificated ones in the US. Should one wish to buy a certificated stone, they have to pay a premium price, without necessarily purchasing a good stone.

Anyway, apologies for this winge, I just had to get this off my chest. We are years behind and I hope something improves here too. I guess if the public becomes more savvy and informed, they will demand better deals.

If I am being ignorant, and someone would like to add something contrary to the above, I'd be very intrested to read it.

Thanks god for this forum.

All the best.


I do understand what you are saying being in the UK myself, we have a LONG way to go in my opinion - no apologies needed as I absolutely agree with you.

If you want a great seller to deal with here, try Dr Indira Marchant in London at

www.bestdiamonds.co.uk  She is a true expert and passionate about cut quality, she sells the beautiful Infinity h&a diamonds.









Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be...
- Stephanie M Thorn
Posted:  6/5/2009 2:33:18 PM
P: 6/5/2009 2:34:47 PM
denverappraiser
denverappraiser

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 4,614
Last Post: 11/22/2009
Member Since: 7/21/2004
 
 		Here's a UK based appraiser that I'm happy to recommend.

http://www.adrian-smith.co.uk/

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

There's never a crowd when you go that extra mile.
Posted:  6/5/2009 2:34:47 PM
P: 6/5/2009 2:35:39 PM
Lorelei
Lorelei

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 34,228
Last Post: 11/23/2009
Member Since: 4/30/2005
 
Date: 6/5/2009 2:34:47 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Here's a UK based appraiser that I'm happy to recommend.

http://www.adrian-smith.co.uk/

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver


Neil thats great, thank you!  Very good to know.









Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be...
- Stephanie M Thorn
Posted:  6/5/2009 2:35:39 PM
P: 6/5/2009 2:57:02 PM
oldminer
oldminer

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 4,964
Last Post: 11/20/2009
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 		I have carried a link to an Independent Jewelry Valuer in the UK for years on my website links page:  He reads like a very legitimate fellow.

http://www.jewelleryvaluer.com/index.html

David S. Atlas

GG(GIA), ASG, Sr. Mbr. NAJA

www.datlas.com
Posted:  6/5/2009 2:57:02 PM
P: 6/5/2009 4:11:12 PM
dinamit
dinamit

Cut Rock
Total Posts: 225
Last Post: 11/16/2009
Member Since: 5/16/2009
 
 		Wow. That's great guys (and ladies :-), thanks so much!

It's good to know there are recommended appraisers in the UK, and Lorelei how lovely to know that someone so 'in the know' is writing from these isles. I'll check out the recommended contacts. I would have gone along with ordering from abroad, however if I can find a nice h&a stone here and have the opportunity to see it first, that would be great.

All the best.

Posted:  6/5/2009 4:11:12 PM
P: 6/5/2009 5:15:00 PM
Lorelei
Lorelei

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 34,228
Last Post: 11/23/2009
Member Since: 4/30/2005
 
Date: 6/5/2009 4:11:12 PM
Author: dinamit
Wow. That's great guys (and ladies :-), thanks so much!

It's good to know there are recommended appraisers in the UK, and Lorelei how lovely to know that someone so 'in the know' is writing from these isles. I'll check out the recommended contacts. I would have gone along with ordering from abroad, however if I can find a nice h&a stone here and have the opportunity to see it first, that would be great.

All the best.

* blush* thank you!









Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be...
- Stephanie M Thorn
Posted:  6/5/2009 5:15:00 PM
P: 6/22/2009 9:36:28 AM
Scotgem
Scotgem

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 2
Last Post: 6/23/2009
Member Since: 6/20/2009
 
 		Thank you for the referral Neil.

I have taken the plunge and signed up to this interesting forum.

There are a few Appraisers in the UK that I would be happy to recommend. Not sure if it is appropriate to list them all here (still feeling my way through the conditions of use etc).
This question of identifying UK based professionals seems to crop up quite often, maybe a thread outlining some of the good ones in the UK might be useful to users.

Regards to all

Adrian S Smith FGA, AJA, MIRV
Jewellery Valuer and Gemmologist
Jewellery Valuations in Scotland
Posted:  6/22/2009 9:36:28 AM
P: 6/22/2009 10:54:26 AM
Lorelei
Lorelei

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 34,228
Last Post: 11/23/2009
Member Since: 4/30/2005
 
Date: 6/22/2009 9:36:28 AM
Author: Scotgem
Thank you for the referral Neil.

I have taken the plunge and signed up to this interesting forum.

There are a few Appraisers in the UK that I would be happy to recommend. Not sure if it is appropriate to list them all here (still feeling my way through the conditions of use etc).
This question of identifying UK based professionals seems to crop up quite often, maybe a thread outlining some of the good ones in the UK might be useful to users.

Regards to all

Welcome Adrian!  It would definitely I think be useful to know of more appraisers in the UK as we are having more UK buyers request details.









Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be...
- Stephanie M Thorn
Posted:  6/22/2009 10:54:26 AM
P: 6/22/2009 11:00:49 AM
Modified Brilliant
Modified Brilliant

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 1,148
Last Post: 11/21/2009
Member Since: 3/24/2005
 
 		Welcome Adrian

Always nice to see a fellow appraiser contribute here.


www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

Jeff Averbook, G.G.
Graduate Gemologist since 1986. Member NAJA. Life Member AIN.
Posted:  6/22/2009 11:00:49 AM
P: 6/22/2009 11:36:14 AM
strmrdr
strmrdr

Ideal Rock
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Date: 6/22/2009 9:36:28 AM
Author: Scotgem
Thank you for the referral Neil.


I have taken the plunge and signed up to this interesting forum.


There are a few Appraisers in the UK that I would be happy to recommend. Not sure if it is appropriate to list them all here (still feeling my way through the conditions of use etc).

This question of identifying UK based professionals seems to crop up quite often, maybe a thread outlining some of the good ones in the UK might be useful to users.


Regards to all


Welcome to PS!!!!
I think it would be great for PS to add a listing of UK appraisers.
That may be a better place for a list.
Andrey could send them the same questionnaire the US appraisers received.

........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K

Posted:  6/22/2009 11:36:14 AM
P: 6/22/2009 11:40:13 AM
Lorelei
Lorelei

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 34,228
Last Post: 11/23/2009
Member Since: 4/30/2005
 
Date: 6/22/2009 11:36:14 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 6/22/2009 9:36:28 AM
Author: Scotgem
Thank you for the referral Neil.


I have taken the plunge and signed up to this interesting forum.


There are a few Appraisers in the UK that I would be happy to recommend. Not sure if it is appropriate to list them all here (still feeling my way through the conditions of use etc).

This question of identifying UK based professionals seems to crop up quite often, maybe a thread outlining some of the good ones in the UK might be useful to users.


Regards to all


Welcome to PS!!!!
I think it would be great for PS to add a listing of UK appraisers.
That may be a better place for a list.
Andrey could send them the same questionnaire the US appraisers received.


I was actually thinking the same thing, I believe it would be very useful if it could be done.









Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be...
- Stephanie M Thorn
Posted:  6/22/2009 11:40:13 AM
P: 6/22/2009 12:31:18 PM
oldminer
oldminer

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 4,964
Last Post: 11/20/2009
Member Since: 9/4/2000
 
 		Welcome Adrian.  Maybe you can supply Andrey with some names of non-retailer appraisers in your part of the world which will be very useful to future Pricescope shoppers.....Good to see you on board.

David S. Atlas

GG(GIA), ASG, Sr. Mbr. NAJA

www.datlas.com
Posted:  6/22/2009 12:31:18 PM
P: 6/22/2009 12:34:35 PM
oldminer
oldminer

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 4,964
Last Post: 11/20/2009
Member Since: 9/4/2000
 
 		IGC is now this link with a new name   http://www.gci-gem.com/

IGL is a small version of IGI.  Different owners, not related to IGI, but goes after the major chains as clients similar to what IGI does. 

David S. Atlas

GG(GIA), ASG, Sr. Mbr. NAJA

www.datlas.com
Posted:  6/22/2009 12:34:35 PM
P: 6/22/2009 3:44:21 PM
PS Admin
PS Admin

Administrator
Total Posts: 227
Last Post: 11/22/2009
Member Since: 4/19/2008
 
 		Hi,

I would be happy to get a list for any non-US independent appraisals and get it up and running on the site for others to search and find.

Feel free to post them here in the mean time.

If you are the independent appraisal please fill out the following registration this will help me set things up sooner.

http://www.pricescope.net/registration.aspx

Kind regards,

Andrey




Follow us on Twitter: DiamondPrices
Posted:  6/22/2009 3:44:21 PM
P: 6/22/2009 5:20:28 PM
Lorelei
Lorelei

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 34,228
Last Post: 11/23/2009
Member Since: 4/30/2005
 
Date: 6/22/2009 3:44:21 PM
Author: PS Admin
Hi,

I would be happy to get a list for any non-US independent appraisals and get it up and running on the site for others to search and find.

Feel free to post them here in the mean time.

If you are the independent appraisal please fill out the following registration this will help me set things up sooner.

http://www.pricescope.net/registration.aspx

Kind regards,

Andrey


Andrey, thats marvellous, thank you so much!

Here are two from another thread

http://www.jewelleryvaluer.com/index.html

http://www.adrian-smith.co.uk/









Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be...
- Stephanie M Thorn
Posted:  6/22/2009 5:20:28 PM
P: 6/22/2009 5:36:00 PM
dinamit
dinamit

Cut Rock
Total Posts: 225
Last Post: 11/16/2009
Member Since: 5/16/2009
 
 		Welcome Adrian and great speaking to you the other day

I am really glad this thread led to the creation of something so useful and very much needed. As I've previously explained, and Lorelei is very well aware of, we have quite a way to go with diamond market development, which is why you will be seeing more and more people from the UK (myself included) on this forum. I wish there to be other UK-related threads too, like info on jewellers etc.

It's a start, great stuff!
Posted:  6/22/2009 5:36:00 PM
P: 6/22/2009 5:37:52 PM
Lorelei
Lorelei

Ideal Rock
Total Posts: 34,228
Last Post: 11/23/2009
Member Since: 4/30/2005
 
Date: 6/22/2009 5:36:00 PM
Author: dinamit
Welcome Adrian and great speaking to you the other day

I am really glad this thread led to the creation of something so useful and very much needed. As I've previously explained, and Lorelei is very well aware of, we have quite a way to go with diamond market development, which is why you will be seeing more and more people from the UK (myself included) on this forum. I wish there to be other UK-related threads too, like info on jewellers etc.

It's a start, great stuff!


Absolutely, this is excellent!!









Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be...
- Stephanie M Thorn
Posted:  6/22/2009 5:37:52 PM
P: 6/23/2009 3:43:02 PM
Scotgem
Scotgem

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 2
Last Post: 6/23/2009
Member Since: 6/20/2009
 
 		Goodness, what a lovely welcome.

I can certainly put together a list of top folk in the UK and Ireland. I agree, a list in the Appraiser section would be more meaningful.

Andrey, I will fill-in the registration and encourage a couple of other similarly minded Appraisers to do the same.

Thank you for your interest and support for the UK and Ireland.

David and Neil - See you in San Diego
Dina - I am sorry for hijacking your thread!

Regards to all
Adrian

Adrian S Smith FGA, AJA, MIRV
Jewellery Valuer and Gemmologist
Jewellery Valuations in Scotland
Posted:  6/23/2009 3:43:02 PM
P: 6/26/2009 7:27:02 PM
dinamit
dinamit

Cut Rock
Total Posts: 225
Last Post: 11/16/2009
Member Since: 5/16/2009
 
 		No probs Adrian, good to have you here

Posted:  6/26/2009 7:27:02 PM

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