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Thoughts

P: 5/22/2009 6:02:19 PM
AboutToAsk Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 6/26/2009 Member Since: 5/22/2009	So I've decided to take the plunge and ask my girlfriend to marry me (it's a surprise). I've set a date of July 1st because it is also the day we are supposed to be closing on our first house and I'd like to ask her on the first night we're there. I've done some research and have tried to educate myself but still feel overwhelmed. Over the time we've been together I've found out that she likes a vintage setting with a princess cut center stone. We actually went and took a look at a couple of rings a while back so I do have a decent idea of what she is interested in. This is what I've found so far and was looking for some feedback. I really like the setting and think she will as well, but I would like to make sure the diamond is decent. http://www.ritani.com/products/view/1120/in_collection/8 http://www.idjewelryonline.com/diamond_details1.php?id=21723787%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&shape=PR&pricefrom=0&priceto=4250&caratfrom=.90&caratto=1.20&colorfrom=D&colorto=H&clarfrom=IF&clarto=SI1&polish=ANY&cert=Any&symmetry=ANY&depthfrom=&depthto=&tablefrom=&tableto=&cut=Array&item_id= Thanks for the help.
Posted: 5/22/2009 6:02:19 PM

There are 57 replies to this message. There are 30 replies on this page.

P: 5/22/2009 6:12:39 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Hi ATA, I'd love to help, but my puter won't copy and paste links. Any chance you could make them clickable? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 5/22/2009 6:12:39 PM

P: 5/22/2009 6:19:57 PM
tyty333 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,386 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 12/17/2008	Here is the stone http://www.idjewelryonline.com/diamond_details1.php?id=21723787%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&shape=PR&pricefrom=0&priceto=4250&caratfrom=.90&caratto=1.20&colorfrom=D&colorto=H&clarfrom=IF&clarto=SI1&polish=ANY&cert=Any&symmetry=ANY&depthfrom=&depthto=&tablefrom=&tableto=&cut=Array&item_id= Here is the setting http://www.ritani.com/products/view/1120/in_collection/8 ~~~Thanks to PS, my wants far exceed my budget!~~~
Posted: 5/22/2009 6:19:57 PM

P: 5/22/2009 6:19:58 PM
AboutToAsk Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 6/26/2009 Member Since: 5/22/2009	Sure, thanks for the help. Hereis the setting. and Here is the diamond. Hope this works and thanks again.
Posted: 5/22/2009 6:19:58 PM

P: 5/22/2009 6:20:45 PM
AboutToAsk Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 6/26/2009 Member Since: 5/22/2009	Thanks Ty, beat me to it.
Posted: 5/22/2009 6:20:45 PM

P: 5/22/2009 6:29:16 PM
Stone-cold11 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,867 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 9/9/2008	No way to judge the princess cut in optical performance without image. I think IDjewelry can provide an ASET image if you ask for it. Post the image when you get it. If they can't supply it, it is safer to buy from a vendor that can.
Posted: 5/22/2009 6:29:16 PM

P: 5/22/2009 6:33:31 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Thank you both for the links! Ok, the setting looks lovely, I think she'll like that. Very blingy, but not too. The stone, I am not loving, and here's why. One, it's not square. Also, the girdle goes from extra thin to thick. That's too wide of a range, and the extra thin does not go well on Princess, unless it's like one or two very tiny spots. The thick part can be hiding weight. The last thing is, they don't give ASET photos (someone correct me if I'm wrong here), which are extremely helpful in looking at the light return on fancy cuts. So, my question would be, would you consider looking at one of the vendors that does provide these pics? A fancy just can't be judged by numbers like a round, unfortunately. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 5/22/2009 6:33:31 PM

P: 5/22/2009 6:41:05 PM
AboutToAsk Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 6/26/2009 Member Since: 5/22/2009	Thanks for the replies. Stone-Cold, I've e-mailed the vendor to request and ASET, hopefully they'll be able to provide it. Ellen, thanks for the input. I didn't even think to see if the stone was square or not, I guess I just assumed that since it was princess cut it would be. As for trying other vendors I wouldn't have a problem going somewhere else. I'm really just trying to get as good a diamond as I can within my budget.
Posted: 5/22/2009 6:41:05 PM

P: 5/22/2009 6:55:23 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 5/22/2009 6:41:05 PM Author: AboutToAsk Thanks for the replies. Stone-Cold, I've e-mailed the vendor to request and ASET, hopefully they'll be able to provide it. Ellen, thanks for the input. I didn't even think to see if the stone was square or not, I guess I just assumed that since it was princess cut it would be. As for trying other vendors I wouldn't have a problem going somewhere else. I'm really just trying to get as good a diamond as I can within my budget. You're welcome. That's the thing, we want to "assume" a lot starting out, but unfortunately we can't. Also, the better the cut, the more it sparkles, in case you weren't aware. But cut costs more, so it may be we could find you something in your budget, but it might be slightly smaller. If you are wanting size over cut, whiich some do, we could use that in searching. Let us know if you'd like some help, and your budget. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 5/22/2009 6:55:23 PM

P: 5/22/2009 7:09:05 PM
AboutToAsk Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 6/26/2009 Member Since: 5/22/2009	I think cut is more important here than size, but I would like to stay around a carat. I think I should be able to find something that sparkles in my budget. My budget is somewhere around $4,000 for the stone and around $1,500 to $2,000 for the setting.
Posted: 5/22/2009 7:09:05 PM

P: 5/22/2009 7:15:29 PM
Stone-cold11 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,867 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 9/9/2008	What about your preference on color? How low are you willing to go to get to a size?
Posted: 5/22/2009 7:15:29 PM

P: 5/22/2009 7:17:44 PM
Stone-cold11 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,867 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 9/9/2008	Here is a GOG 0.97 J VS2. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5816/
Posted: 5/22/2009 7:17:44 PM

P: 5/22/2009 7:22:39 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	I've got to run, but I will let you know, in very well cut stones, you can go down in color, the brilliance hides things rather well. Sc picked a good one. If you're not comfortable going that low in color, there's this one. It would get 5% off with PS discount. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=266 Try doing a search on here for Princess and lower colors, you should get lots of threads with pics. That might help you out. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 5/22/2009 7:22:39 PM

P: 5/22/2009 7:42:10 PM
gottabekin Rough Rock Total Posts: 26 Last Post: 6/16/2009 Member Since: 5/14/2009	Can you go into ID Jewelry to see the diamond? Great service from there.
Posted: 5/22/2009 7:42:10 PM

P: 5/23/2009 4:50:14 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,212 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 5/22/2009 7:22:39 PM Author: Ellen I've got to run, but I will let you know, in very well cut stones, you can go down in color, the brilliance hides things rather well. Sc picked a good one. If you're not comfortable going that low in color, there's this one. It would get 5% off with PS discount. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=266 Try doing a search on here for Princess and lower colors, you should get lots of threads with pics. That might help you out. Good one El. Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 5/23/2009 4:50:14 AM

P: 5/23/2009 11:24:53 AM
AboutToAsk Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 6/26/2009 Member Since: 5/22/2009	Gottabe, I could go to ID Jewelry which is why I had originally been browsing there. I figured I could use the internet to find a couple of likely stones and then go in person and choose the one I liked. However, it is a bit of a drive so I would like to only go down once. I'll do a search on princess and color right now, thanks for the help and suggestions everyone.
Posted: 5/23/2009 11:24:53 AM

P: 5/23/2009 11:45:05 AM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	How far away from Long Island are you? GOG is located there, and they do have lots of info online about their stones. So you could do what you were wanting in picking some real contenders, and then have a look in person. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 5/23/2009 11:45:05 AM

P: 5/23/2009 11:53:13 AM
Wink Ideal Rock Total Posts: 4,032 Last Post: 11/17/2009 Member Since: 5/4/2001	Date: 5/23/2009 11:45:05 AM Author: Ellen How far away from Long Island are you? GOG is located there, and they do have lots of info online about their stones. So you could do what you were wanting in picking some real contenders, and then have a look in person. I am sure that there must be a Pricescope recognized appraiser in that area also so you could arrange to have stone(s) shipped to that appraiser for your inspection. You would then expend only shipping charges and what ever the appraiser would charge you rather than having to pay up front to see the diamond(s). Wink Wink Jones GG Winfield's/High Performance Diamonds
Posted: 5/23/2009 11:53:13 AM

P: 5/26/2009 2:14:10 PM
AboutToAsk Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 6/26/2009 Member Since: 5/22/2009	I received the ASET image for the first stone I looked at from ID Jewelry and was wondering if anyone could explain it to me. I attached the file because I don't know how to insert it into a post. I honestly have no idea how to read the thing or what exactly it measures. Also, it looks much different from those I've seen from GOG and I don't know if that is because the diamond is of inferior quality or there is another reason. Thanks for the help.
Posted: 5/26/2009 2:14:10 PM

P: 5/26/2009 2:14:55 PM
AboutToAsk Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 6/26/2009 Member Since: 5/22/2009	I guess attaching does insert it, nevermind to that part of the post. Would still appreciate any help reading the thing. Thanks.
Posted: 5/26/2009 2:14:55 PM

P: 5/26/2009 2:36:50 PM
jet2ks Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,576 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 2/4/2009	The ASET on that princess is very nice! Here is a page that explains more about ASET and how to read the images http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance The difference in the image from those that GOG posts is in the setup they use to take the photos, nothing to worry about there. Any of my opinions are worth exactly what you paid for them. "The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." Benjamin Franklin
Posted: 5/26/2009 2:36:50 PM

P: 5/26/2009 2:43:52 PM
AboutToAsk Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 6/26/2009 Member Since: 5/22/2009	Thanks for the link Jet. Ellen had mentioned that the stone was not square and that could be a problem...how noticeable is .3 mm? Will it really stick out in the setting or is it more something that is apparent only under intense scrutiny?
Posted: 5/26/2009 2:43:52 PM

P: 5/26/2009 2:49:18 PM
Stone-cold11 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 6,867 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 9/9/2008	Date: 5/26/2009 2:43:52 PM Author: AboutToAsk Thanks for the link Jet. Ellen had mentioned that the stone was not square and that could be a problem...how noticeable is .3 mm? Will it really stick out in the setting or is it more something that is apparent only under intense scrutiny? Depends on how it is mounted. If the sides are parallel to the band then it is not easily noticeable, but if you mount it compass point style it will be noticeble.
Posted: 5/26/2009 2:49:18 PM

P: 5/26/2009 2:57:50 PM
jet2ks Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,576 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 2/4/2009	In the halo setting you have picked, I can see some possible issues for a stone that is not square. The head will almost certainly have to be custom or else the halo will not have the same gap on all sides--that would probably be more noticeable. If they get the halo to have an even gap, I don't know if it would help hide the rectangular shape or magnify it. The l/w ratio of 1.05, where this stone is at, is right at the point where most people can notice that it is out of square--the ratio is more critical than the actual measurement to determine how apparent the shape is. I definitely agree with Ellen also that the extra thin to thick girdle is a concern. Someone would have to look at the diamond and evaluate. If areas at or around the corners are extra thin, the diamond could be prone to chipping. This diamond returns light very well, which is what the ASET shows, but I like the other stones linked in the thread better. Any of my opinions are worth exactly what you paid for them. "The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." Benjamin Franklin
Posted: 5/26/2009 2:57:50 PM

P: 5/26/2009 3:03:26 PM
AboutToAsk Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 6/26/2009 Member Since: 5/22/2009	Thanks for the help Jet. On another note, what exactly are polish and symmetry and how important is it for them them to be rated as excellent?
Posted: 5/26/2009 3:03:26 PM

P: 5/26/2009 3:11:02 PM
jet2ks Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,576 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 2/4/2009	Symmetry http://diamonds.pricescope.com/symm.asp Polish http://diamonds.pricescope.com/polish.asp Excellent can be overkill, looking at a diamond with the naked eye, people can't tell the difference between VG or EX. Any of my opinions are worth exactly what you paid for them. "The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." Benjamin Franklin
Posted: 5/26/2009 3:11:02 PM

P: 5/26/2009 3:16:48 PM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,212 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Apparently good and above for polish and symmetry look the same to the naked untrained eye. Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 5/26/2009 3:16:48 PM

P: 5/26/2009 3:26:21 PM
jet2ks Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,576 Last Post: 11/20/2009 Member Since: 2/4/2009	Date: 5/26/2009 3:16:48 PM Author: Lorelei Apparently good and above for polish and symmetry look the same to the naked untrained eye. Probably so, I'm just paranoid and figure there are enough great diamonds out there with VG and above to use that for a cutoff. Any of my opinions are worth exactly what you paid for them. "The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." Benjamin Franklin
Posted: 5/26/2009 3:26:21 PM

P: 5/26/2009 3:28:21 PM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,212 Last Post: 11/22/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 5/26/2009 3:26:21 PM Author: jet2ks Date: 5/26/2009 3:16:48 PM Author: Lorelei Apparently good and above for polish and symmetry look the same to the naked untrained eye. Probably so, I'm just paranoid and figure there are enough great diamonds out there with VG and above to use that for a cutoff. And you certainly can do so Monsieur Jetskis if that is what you prefer! Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 5/26/2009 3:28:21 PM

P: 5/26/2009 7:08:17 PM
AboutToAsk Rough Rock Total Posts: 17 Last Post: 6/26/2009 Member Since: 5/22/2009	Any thoughts on this stone? I am hesitant about the color, will it stand out as yellow in white gold with a halo setting? http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=633
Posted: 5/26/2009 7:08:17 PM

P: 5/26/2009 7:26:25 PM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 5/26/2009 7:08:17 PM Author: AboutToAsk Any thoughts on this stone? I am hesitant about the color, will it stand out as yellow in white gold with a halo setting? http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=633 In a very well cut stone, the "warmth" is masked. That stone will never look "yellow", not even close. More like a possible winter white, as will any well cut J. Unless one is highly color sensitive, which most people aren't. It doesn't look bad, but if you're going to go to J, this one gets my vote. Just under the one carat mark, which saves a lot of moolah. But it's facing up the same size. This one is 5.42 vs. 5.43 on the Infinity. And I like the ASET on this one better. http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/5816/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 5/26/2009 7:26:25 PM

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