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Cut Adviser?

P: 12/4/2003 4:16:06 PM
hoovillemd Rough Rock Total Posts: 50 Last Post: 12/4/2003 Member Since: 8/11/2002	I have been keeping a close eye on how my diamond scores on the cut adviser. I have just noticed that when I enter the angles(35.1/40.8) I get a score of 1.7 but when I enter the %(15.3/42.8) the score is 0.6. This is a big jump. Does anyone know what number is correct? I will give you all the figures and maybe someone will have a true value. The Diamond is an AGS Ideal 0 H&A Table: 56% Depth: 61.2% Crown: 15.3% or 35.1 angle Pavillion: 42.8% or 40.8 angle Culet: 0% Does anyone know if the % or Angle is more accurate and why there is such a big difference? Thanks Alot for everyones help Matt Dabney
Posted: 12/4/2003 4:16:06 PM

There are 20 replies to this message. There are 20 replies on this page.

P: 12/4/2003 4:34:15 PM
hoovillemd Rough Rock Total Posts: 50 Last Post: 12/4/2003 Member Since: 8/11/2002	Does anyone know who I might contact about this? Thanks
Posted: 12/4/2003 4:34:15 PM

P: 12/4/2003 4:37:55 PM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	It is my understanding that the angles are much more accurate. There are people here that will be able to answer better than I can on how much more accurate. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 12/4/2003 4:37:55 PM

P: 12/4/2003 4:41:11 PM
hoovillemd Rough Rock Total Posts: 50 Last Post: 12/4/2003 Member Since: 8/11/2002	Thanks alot for your quick reply strmrdr. I will look forward to everyone elses info.
Posted: 12/4/2003 4:41:11 PM

P: 12/4/2003 4:41:53 PM
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002	Hooville: Using the angles is more accurate. Using percentage means you are using figures that have rounded off. That's hugely less accurate than going with the actual angles. Think of it this way.....there's a serious difference between $851.00 and $900. Under the percentage rounding system---because it's more than "eight and one-half hundreds"----$851 would be rounded up to $900. _____________________ Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Posted: 12/4/2003 4:41:53 PM

P: 12/4/2003 5:42:29 PM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,581 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	Excellent example of why angles are essential info over %'s. Note that the table % is rounded and in actual fact the crown angle HCA has calculated would be 34.76. Also the depth of the stone is shallower because the scan has not picked up the presence of a small culet. IF YOU HAVE ANGLES ALWAYS USE THEM. %'s reduce scores by about 0.3 Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 12/4/2003 5:42:29 PM

P: 12/4/2003 5:43:06 PM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,581 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	oops forgot Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 12/4/2003 5:43:06 PM

P: 12/4/2003 5:47:08 PM
mike04456 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,441 Last Post: 3/28/2004 Member Since: 11/20/2002	Garry, I've been wondering: is there a theoretical diamond out there that would score a 0.0 (or even less)? Or is the program structured so that the minimum score is going to be around 0.1? Or something higher? Just curious.
Posted: 12/4/2003 5:47:08 PM

P: 12/4/2003 5:51:18 PM
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002	LawGem, a few folks have commented recently (although I'd love to hear from Garry on this too) that super-low scores on this HCA aren't optimal, either. The thought process is that stones below a 0.6 won't have enough contrast....kind of like reciting a speech in a complete monotone with no inflections. Garry.....input on this? _____________________ Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Posted: 12/4/2003 5:51:18 PM

P: 12/4/2003 5:54:46 PM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,581 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	0.0 is impossible I think. if the spread = 0.0 then some other factors will not be 0.0 Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 12/4/2003 5:54:46 PM

P: 12/4/2003 6:02:56 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,919 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	What about a 0.6 or a 0.4 Garry. How does such a low score affect the stone? I have heard it means there won't be as much contrast? Thoughts? Secondly, this is why we stress ANGLES to people over %'s....the %'s can give you the nice low score and then angles bump it up a point and a half. What if the %'s give the stone a 1.8. From my experience with typing in %'s then angles, that same 1.8 as % will be more like an almost 3.0 with angles. That may be a purchasing deal-breaker for someone...but if they don't have the angles, they won't know for sure. ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 12/4/2003 6:02:56 PM

P: 12/4/2003 6:11:33 PM
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002	Garry....since you're here....another question: Why is it that when I do a search by cut quality, some stones will reflect different results (not in the score but in the ex/vg) then they do if I enter it manually? _____________________ Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Posted: 12/4/2003 6:11:33 PM

P: 12/4/2003 6:46:22 PM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,581 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	A can you give some eg's? Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 12/4/2003 6:46:22 PM

P: 12/4/2003 7:05:46 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,919 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	Garry.... What about a 0.6 or a 0.4. How does such a low score affect the stone? I have heard it means there won't be as much contrast? ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 12/4/2003 7:05:46 PM

P: 12/4/2003 7:06:44 PM
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002	Yup..... This is from the PS cut-quality search....see all ex? 1.244, H, SI2, 0 (H&A) 0.9-EX ex-ex-ex-ex, 60.5, 56, 34.6°, 40.7°, AGS, f 0.7%-1.4%, pt, id, id, neg, $5690>> Put the numbers in manually, though, and get VG on the spread instead. Why? Selected:* 60.5% depth, 56% table, 34.6° crown angle, 40.7° pavilion angle The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish Note: HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003. _____________________ Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Posted: 12/4/2003 7:06:44 PM

P: 12/4/2003 7:17:52 PM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,581 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	OK - I see the problem. There are 2 slightly differentmethods - the search by cut quality has access to better girdle data - which we do not trust people to get or enter online. The actual spread index is on the cusp of VG / Ex. Change either 0.7% to 0.8, or 1.4 to 1.5 and you get VG spread - it is that close. Not a big issue - because it is so hard for people to get good quality girdle data - we work out the girdle by subtraction - so even table rounding etc introduces a small variable. Make sense? Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 12/4/2003 7:17:52 PM

P: 12/4/2003 7:29:59 PM
Mara Ideal Rock Total Posts: 27,919 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 10/30/2002	Garry doesn't want to answer my questions...I'll just go CRY in the corner.... ________________________________ "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
Posted: 12/4/2003 7:29:59 PM

P: 12/4/2003 8:12:43 PM
Garry H (Cut Nut) Ideal Rock Total Posts: 11,581 Last Post: 11/23/2009 Member Since: 8/16/2000	Sorry Mara - its Xmas here a low spread means a shallower stone which can appear darker if you stick your head up real close. But if you want a stone for a pendant or earrrings they are very big and no one can get that close to block the light with their noggin Shallow stones have very little leakage, but slightly less light return because of head obstruction. The areas that are dark can display more fire - even if the crown angle is low. Garry Holloway FGAA DipDT HCA and Ideal-scope developer http://www.ideal-scope.com and http://www.HollowayDiamonds.com.au
Posted: 12/4/2003 8:12:43 PM

P: 12/4/2003 8:48:30 PM
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002	---------------- On 12/4/2003 7:17:52 PM Cut Nut wrote: OK - I see the problem. There are 2 slightly differentmethods - the search by cut quality has access to better girdle data - which we do not trust people to get or enter online. The actual spread index is on the cusp of VG / Ex. Change either 0.7% to 0.8, or 1.4 to 1.5 and you get VG spread - it is that close. Not a big issue - because it is so hard for people to get good quality girdle data - we work out the girdle by subtraction - so even table rounding etc introduces a small variable. Make sense? ---------------- Yup.....and considering that's my newly purchased stone, I'm DELIGHTED to hear that. Woo-hoo! _____________________ Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Posted: 12/4/2003 8:48:30 PM

P: 12/4/2003 11:55:02 PM
valeria101 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 14,048 Last Post: 4/30/2006 Member Since: 8/29/2003	---------------- On 12/4/2003 8:12:43 PM Cut Nut wrote: [... Big] spread means a shallower stone which can appear darker if you stick your head up real close.---------------- So shallow stones look good only when not looked at I'll write this down on my jewelry case Ana "The greatest experts are only as good as the sum total of what they have seen." [Souren Melikian]
Posted: 12/4/2003 11:55:02 PM

P: 12/5/2003 12:05:29 AM
aljdewey Ideal Rock Total Posts: 8,236 Last Post: 2/11/2008 Member Since: 11/25/2002	---------------- On 12/4/2003 11:55:02 PM valeria101 wrote: So shallow stones look good only when not looked at I'll write this down on my jewelry case ---------------- While you're writing that, you may want to also write this: Semantics, I know, but important points: 1. Garry didn't say shallow stones didn't look good, he said under some conditions they can look dark. There was no implication that shallow stones are undesirable or bad.......dark is not specifically synonymous with bad. 2. He said they can look dark if your head obstructs the light. 3. And yes......if the only way you can "look" at your stones is with your head glued to them (instead of normal viewing distance like earrings, etc.)....then yes, expect them to look dark. _____________________ Note: Chainsaw Not Sold Separately.
Posted: 12/5/2003 12:05:29 AM

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