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John's Cliff Notes

P: 3/3/2009 11:06:19 PM
Melz Cut Rock Total Posts: 204 Last Post: 10/30/2009 Member Since: 2/24/2009	As referenced in the below thread regarding AGS/GIA overlap. Can't find them via a search, can anyone help? Much appreciated! http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=108438
Posted: 3/3/2009 11:06:19 PM

There are 15 replies to this message. There are 15 replies on this page.

P: 3/4/2009 12:39:58 AM
Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,327 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004	Date: 3/3/2009 11:06:19 PM Author:melanie987123 As referenced in the below thread regarding AGS/GIA overlap. Can't find them via a search, can anyone help? Much appreciated! http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=108438 Kind of an odd redaction here...John pointing to his own comment, being supported by Lorelei, and searching on Lorelei and cliff notes to find them. But...there you go... Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. ____________ If you're looking for diamond shopping tips...this (along with this update) might do the trick! however...caution: known to have been regarded as armed and dangerous…
Posted: 3/4/2009 12:39:58 AM

P: 3/4/2009 3:59:44 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,276 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 3/4/2009 12:39:58 AM Author: Regular Guy Date: 3/3/2009 11:06:19 PM Author:melanie987123 As referenced in the below thread regarding AGS/GIA overlap. Can't find them via a search, can anyone help? Much appreciated! http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=108438 Kind of an odd redaction here...John pointing to his own comment, being supported by Lorelei, and searching on Lorelei and cliff notes to find them. But...there you go... Thanks Ira! Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 3/4/2009 3:59:44 AM

P: 3/4/2009 6:57:52 AM
John Pollard Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,552 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 5/1/2008	Date: 3/3/2009 11:06:19 PM Author:melanie987123 As referenced in the below thread regarding AGS/GIA overlap. Can't find them via a search, can anyone help? Much appreciated! Hi Melanie. I think they were included in that thread, but just in case here is the original iteration (circa 07). * Configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there. With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near-Tolkowsky angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown. GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35). Of course all this is by the numbers and averages on a grading report don't tell the whole story. Actual images like ideal-scope or ASET are needed if you'd like meaningful feedback about performance potential. Most importantly, we won't have the chance to see the diamond. If you do be sure to view it in several lighting conditions - not just under spotlights. * While it's easy to focus on the numbers above the most important part is really the italicized... While I'm keen on the HCA as a cursory rejection tool and I applaud the GIA, AGS and AGA systems for their strengths no system is perfect. So the above is really a guideline intended to keep your wheels on the road towards top performance in round brilliants. Much more information is needed to guide you to your chosen performance destination however. There was a detailed discussion in this thread about the limitations of numbers. While I admit to being very analytic (ok ok OCD) I prefer to go through all the motions and precautions in PS threads as if I were buying for myself. John __________________________ John Pollard Infinity Diamonds www.CraftedByInfinity.com
Posted: 3/4/2009 6:57:52 AM

P: 3/4/2009 7:04:00 AM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	Point of order that has been bugging me for a long time... Those notes are to find a diamond "near-Tolkowsky". I think John would agree there are a lot of beautiful high performance diamonds that are not "near-Tolkowsky". "near-Tolkowsky" is just one range of many a beautiful high performance diamond can fall into. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 3/4/2009 7:04:00 AM

P: 3/4/2009 7:43:11 AM
Melz Cut Rock Total Posts: 204 Last Post: 10/30/2009 Member Since: 2/24/2009	Storm your comment reminded me I came across a diamond the other day with a Tolkwosky certificate and wasn't sure what to make of it. Is it going to be a guaranteed performer? Better than say an AGS with otherwise equivalent specs or a GOG or WF branded diamond?
Posted: 3/4/2009 7:43:11 AM

P: 3/4/2009 7:46:28 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,276 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 3/4/2009 7:43:11 AM Author: melanie987123 Thanks for humoring me ... didn't realize that was what the reference was to! What a great board. Not sure what I'm going to do with myself when I'm engaged and done shopping for diamonds ..... Then you start thinking about earrings or a pendant.... Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 3/4/2009 7:46:28 AM

P: 3/4/2009 7:55:41 AM
Melz Cut Rock Total Posts: 204 Last Post: 10/30/2009 Member Since: 2/24/2009	Absolutely!
Posted: 3/4/2009 7:55:41 AM

P: 3/4/2009 7:58:51 AM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 3/4/2009 7:04:00 AM Author: strmrdr Point of order that has been bugging me for a long time... Those notes are to find a diamond 'near-Tolkowsky'. I think John would agree there are a lot of beautiful high performance diamonds that are not 'near-Tolkowsky'. 'near-Tolkowsky' is just one range of many a beautiful high performance diamond can fall into. True enough strm. But most coming on here are not looking for the "other" beauties (and those few who are, usually say so), so this just helps narrow down/ease the search process for newbs.To elaborate on, and list all the caveats to get other cuts that are worthwhile, would just add stress and confusion to the process. imho ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 3/4/2009 7:58:51 AM

P: 3/4/2009 8:00:46 AM
John Pollard Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,552 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 5/1/2008	Date: 3/4/2009 7:04:00 AM Author: strmrdr Point of order that has been bugging me for a long time... Those notes are to find a diamond 'near-Tolkowsky'. I think John would agree there are a lot of beautiful high performance diamonds that are not 'near-Tolkowsky'. 'near-Tolkowsky' is just one range of many a beautiful high performance diamond can fall into. Sure. It's one of the reasons I specified near-Tolk angles ... and not just near-Tolk makes. When you seek a round brilliant away from those angles, regardless of make, the give-take statement in the first sentence applies. At that point I think insistence on further data like IS and ASET becomes even more important. John __________________________ John Pollard Infinity Diamonds www.CraftedByInfinity.com
Posted: 3/4/2009 8:00:46 AM

P: 3/4/2009 8:03:19 AM
Ellen Ideal Rock Total Posts: 22,894 Last Post: 11/6/2009 Member Since: 1/13/2006	Date: 3/4/2009 8:00:46 AM Author: John Pollard Date: 3/4/2009 7:04:00 AM Author: strmrdr Point of order that has been bugging me for a long time... Those notes are to find a diamond 'near-Tolkowsky'. I think John would agree there are a lot of beautiful high performance diamonds that are not 'near-Tolkowsky'. 'near-Tolkowsky' is just one range of many a beautiful high performance diamond can fall into. Sure. It's one of the reasons I specified near-Tolk angles ... and not just near-Tolk makes. When you seek a round brilliant away from those angles, regardless of make, the give-take statement in the first sentence applies. At that point I think insistence on further data like IS and ASET becomes even more important. Exactly. I started to come back to edit my post, as I hadn't been specific on that. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds." -Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880 "There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things.... The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
Posted: 3/4/2009 8:03:19 AM

P: 3/4/2009 8:10:01 AM
John Pollard Ideal Rock Total Posts: 1,552 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 5/1/2008	Date: 3/4/2009 7:58:51 AM Author: Ellen True enough strm. But most coming on here are not looking for the 'other' beauties (and those few who are, usually say so), so this just helps narrow down/ease the search process for newbs.To elaborate on, and list all the caveats to get other cuts that are worthwhile, would just add stress and confusion to the process. imho Indeed Ellen. That was the reason the "Cliff's Notes" surfaced. To stop parroting same-info over and over to newbs looking at dubious combos...getting them back onto a well agreed-upon road. Karl is saying there are other scenic routes. It's true, but those roads are less certain and often require specific guidance. At that point there are regulars who generally surface to help guide & decide. John __________________________ John Pollard Infinity Diamonds www.CraftedByInfinity.com
Posted: 3/4/2009 8:10:01 AM

P: 3/4/2009 8:12:15 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,276 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 3/4/2009 7:55:41 AM Author: melanie987123 Absolutely! Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 3/4/2009 8:12:15 AM

P: 3/4/2009 8:13:10 AM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,276 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 3/4/2009 8:10:01 AM Author: John Pollard Date: 3/4/2009 7:58:51 AM Author: Ellen True enough strm. But most coming on here are not looking for the 'other' beauties (and those few who are, usually say so), so this just helps narrow down/ease the search process for newbs.To elaborate on, and list all the caveats to get other cuts that are worthwhile, would just add stress and confusion to the process. imho Indeed Ellen. That was the reason the 'Cliff's Notes' surfaced. To stop parroting same-info over and over to newbs looking at dubious combos...getting them back onto a well agreed-upon road. Karl is saying there are other scenic routes. It's true, but those roads are less certain and often require specific guidance. At that point there are regulars who generally surface to help guide & decide. In a nutshell. Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 3/4/2009 8:13:10 AM

P: 3/4/2009 12:12:16 PM
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003	Date: 3/4/2009 8:10:01 AM Author: John Pollard Date: 3/4/2009 7:58:51 AM Author: Ellen True enough strm. But most coming on here are not looking for the 'other' beauties (and those few who are, usually say so), so this just helps narrow down/ease the search process for newbs.To elaborate on, and list all the caveats to get other cuts that are worthwhile, would just add stress and confusion to the process. imho Indeed Ellen. That was the reason the 'Cliff's Notes' surfaced. To stop parroting same-info over and over to newbs looking at dubious combos...getting them back onto a well agreed-upon road. Karl is saying there are other scenic routes. It's true, but those roads are less certain and often require specific guidance. At that point there are regulars who generally surface to help guide & decide. I like the idea behind them that they are incomplete is what bugs me. Maybe you me and Garry need to put our heads together and present a better version when everyone has time. Since 2 out of 3 is traveling right now lets plan on doing so when everyone is back home. I think we can add 3-4 lines that will bring the others into the fold without getting 2 confusing. I do not want to go back to the days when near-tolk was the only considered and I see that happening now. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K
Posted: 3/4/2009 12:12:16 PM

P: 3/4/2009 12:17:04 PM
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,276 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005	Date: 3/4/2009 12:12:16 PM Author: strmrdr Date: 3/4/2009 8:10:01 AM Author: John Pollard Date: 3/4/2009 7:58:51 AM Author: Ellen True enough strm. But most coming on here are not looking for the 'other' beauties (and those few who are, usually say so), so this just helps narrow down/ease the search process for newbs.To elaborate on, and list all the caveats to get other cuts that are worthwhile, would just add stress and confusion to the process. imho Indeed Ellen. That was the reason the 'Cliff's Notes' surfaced. To stop parroting same-info over and over to newbs looking at dubious combos...getting them back onto a well agreed-upon road. Karl is saying there are other scenic routes. It's true, but those roads are less certain and often require specific guidance. At that point there are regulars who generally surface to help guide & decide. I like the idea behind them that they are incomplete is what bugs me. Maybe you me and Garry need to put our heads together and present a better version when everyone has time. Since 2 out of 3 is traveling right now lets plan on doing so when everyone is back home. I think we can add 3-4 lines that will bring the others into the fold without getting 2 confusing. I do not want to go back to the days when near-tolk was the only considered and I see that happening now. Sounds like a plan if it can be done in a way which isn't confusing to newcomers. Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn
Posted: 3/4/2009 12:17:04 PM

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