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 Which would you choose?

P:  2/20/2009 3:16:16 AM  
vf0valkyrie
vf0valkyrie

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 57
Last Post: 5/3/2009
Member Since: 12/30/2008
 
hi everyone, just like to see which diamond would you choose...
And here are the contenders...

Diamond 1)

http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/index.php?shapes=3&shapes=2&ref=4711&pid=63

Diamond 2)

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-ideal-cut-e-color-vs1-clarity_LD01375473?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

I was told that Diaomnd 1 would give me better fire ans scin compared to Diamond 2 because of higher Star Ratio/Deviation:55% and Depth Gridle Facet:78% compared to Diamond 2's Star Ratio/Deviation:50% and Depth Gridle Facet:75%

Is that true? And would I be able to tell the difference with my eyes?

Also, is it true that a faceted gridle in diamond 2 be a better choice for gridles?

Appreciate your contributions
Posted:  2/20/2009 3:16:16 AM

 There are 18 replies to this message.  There are 18 replies on this page.

P: 2/20/2009 3:44:54 AM
Stone-cold11
Stone-cold11

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I am partial to Infinity cut as I also bought from them. But comparing the 2, if BN's fluor is not giving it a hazy/oily look, looks very tempting from the price.

Posted:  2/20/2009 3:44:54 AM
P: 2/20/2009 4:18:04 AM
strmrdr
strmrdr

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Date: 2/20/2009 3:16:16 AM
Author:vf0valkyrie

I was told that Diaomnd 1 would give me better fire ans scin compared to Diamond 2 because of higher Star Ratio/Deviation:55% and Depth Gridle Facet:78% compared to Diamond 2's Star Ratio/Deviation:50% and Depth Gridle Facet:75%

huh? who said that non-sense? Is that a direct quote?

In diamond 1 you have a precision cut and very well documented high performance diamond and with diamond 2 you have a poorly documented diamond in relation to cut quality that may be a high performance diamond but there is no documentation to prove it.


........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K

Posted:  2/20/2009 4:18:04 AM
P: 2/20/2009 4:21:46 AM
Lorelei
Lorelei

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Date: 2/20/2009 4:18:04 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/20/2009 3:16:16 AM
Author:vf0valkyrie

I was told that Diaomnd 1 would give me better fire ans scin compared to Diamond 2 because of higher Star Ratio/Deviation:55% and Depth Gridle Facet:78% compared to Diamond 2's Star Ratio/Deviation:50% and Depth Gridle Facet:75%

huh? who said that non-sense? Is that a direct quote?

In diamond 1 you have a precision cut and very well documented high performance diamond and with diamond 2 you have a poorly documented diamond in relation to cut quality that may be a high performance diamond but there is no documentation to prove it.



Word.









Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be...
- Stephanie M Thorn

Posted:  2/20/2009 4:21:46 AM
P: 2/20/2009 4:53:14 AM
vf0valkyrie
vf0valkyrie

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 57
Last Post: 5/3/2009
Member Since: 12/30/2008
 
To be fair, the person gave...


Diamond 1

Star Ratio/Deviation:55% Good chance of excellent hotspot and scint

Depth Gridle Facet:78% Good chance of excellent hotspot and scint

Diamond 2

Star Ratio/Deviation:50 % Good chance of an average hotspot and scint

Depth Gridle Facet:75% Good chance of an average hotspot and scint

Personal Comment: Internal Graining as often called twinning lines, wisps and knot lines. Personal i would avoid..However its just personal...

... among other things such as what the HCA is and other comments about the ASET and IS pictures.
He is a very helpful educated consumer in where I come from and many seek his advice from the local forum before buying diamonds.

But I do not have any idea how he comes up with whether the hotspot and scin is excellent or otherwise, so that I cannot comment.

But it kind of got me worried if diamond 2 is in fact inferior to diamond 1 in terms of hotspot and scin, which is why I raised this issue here.



The SA from Bluenile told me these:


The diamond does emit a strong blue fluorescence and it is not milky or oily in natural light. 
I have not seen this diamond personally, but I have been in contact with my jeweler who has taken the diamond out of the
vault to check on visual specifications.
The internal grading is not visible to the unaided eye and it does not affect the clarity.

And this other interesting comments:

I'm sorry to say that we are not able to provide IdealScope, GemEx, or photos for our diamonds. This is primarily because 
the majority of the vault locations that we store our diamonds at do not have these machines on site, but also because
we do not believe that the majority of our customers would be able to properly interpret these kinds of reports. A cut
appraisal machine is only as good as its calibration, and unless these machines are meticulously calibrated, they will not
produce accurate results. Even when perfectly calibrated, the same diamond run through the same machine three times
will produce three different results. (This is an experiment I would recommend trying if you ever happen to be at a jewelry
store with one of these machines.)


























Another reason we stay away from these kinds of reports is that the new AGS and GIA reports have largely superseded the
need for additional cut grade assessment. The GIA and AGS are the undisputed leaders and gold standard for diamond
grading in America, and their new cut grade assessments are the result of many years of research. Other assessments are
neither as widely recognized nor as highly valued as GIA reports, so we have decided that the price increases that would
result from providing these reports would not be acceptable to the majority of our customers.


Is it true that the machines give different results?
Is it also true that Bluenile is generally cheaper because it does not provide those other images?

Posted:  2/20/2009 4:53:14 AM
P: 2/20/2009 4:59:52 AM
Stone-cold11
Stone-cold11

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Load of crap. BN do not have any other vault locations other than where they hold their signature ideals. This is just a cover story for the fact that they are drop shippers and have access to large number of virtual diamonds, which are own by various jewelers that may not have ASET/IS etc... ASET is not a machine, it is just a scope, that tells you how much your SA from BN really knows about what he is talking.

BN is generally cheaper because they are drop shippers, do not provide images and do not have upgrade, buy back policies as others vendors that are slightly more expensive.

Posted:  2/20/2009 4:59:52 AM
P: 2/20/2009 4:59:54 AM
strmrdr
strmrdr

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Date: 2/20/2009 4:53:14 AM
Author: vf0valkyrie
To be fair, the person gave...



Diamond 1


Star Ratio/Deviation:55% Good chance of excellent hotspot and scint

Depth Gridle Facet:78% Good chance of excellent hotspot and scint


Diamond 2


Star Ratio/Deviation:50 % Good chance of an average hotspot and scint

Depth Gridle Facet:75% Good chance of an average hotspot and scint




Whew so I don't have to give a vendor 50 lashes with a wet noodle.
That is not true.
stars: 50-55 no real difference in most combinations.
The 75% is rounded it could be 77.49 which is no real difference from 78 or it could be 72.5 which would be a downgrade and not likely.

........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K

Posted:  2/20/2009 4:59:54 AM
P: 2/20/2009 5:01:11 AM
vf0valkyrie
vf0valkyrie

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 57
Last Post: 5/3/2009
Member Since: 12/30/2008
 
Date: 2/20/2009 4:18:04 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/20/2009 3:16:16 AM
Author:vf0valkyrie

I was told that Diaomnd 1 would give me better fire ans scin compared to Diamond 2 because of higher Star Ratio/Deviation:55% and Depth Gridle Facet:78% compared to Diamond 2's Star Ratio/Deviation:50% and Depth Gridle Facet:75%

huh? who said that non-sense? Is that a direct quote?

In diamond 1 you have a precision cut and very well documented high performance diamond and with diamond 2 you have a poorly documented diamond in relation to cut quality that may be a high performance diamond but there is no documentation to prove it.




Maybe this post will give you a better idea of how that person came up with such comments.
The bottom are quoted directly from him on another diamond:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5553

HCA Score:1.3 Ex

Light Return (ASET/ IDEAL Scope):Excellent light return with minor ligh leakage

Crown/Pavilion Angle deviation:0.19/0.47 ... A bit high on the pavilion

H&A Pattern:Excellent

Star Ratio/Deviation:54.31 / 2.05 Good chance of excellent hotspot and scint..

Depth Gridle Facet: 78.9 Good chance of excellent hotspot and scint..

Painted/Dugged/Classic gridle:Classic with minor painting around..esp 11,1/4....oclock..

Fluorescence:None canoot complain

Inclusion:Hmmm.seem like a high VS2


Maybe this can shed some light into how he came up with those comments of his.

Posted:  2/20/2009 5:01:11 AM
P: 2/20/2009 5:10:55 AM
strmrdr
strmrdr

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how does he define hotspots?

I would call the painting on the gog stone extensive not minor.

........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K

Posted:  2/20/2009 5:10:55 AM
P: 2/20/2009 5:11:38 AM
Stone-cold11
Stone-cold11

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Total Posts: 6,854
Last Post: 11/22/2009
Member Since: 9/9/2008
 
Basically what Karl is saying is that GIA report for the BN stone is a rounded number, unlike AGS or for the GOG case, GOG did their own helium scan on the dimensions of the stone. So what your SA is saying between the 2 difference is still within the round off error of the GIA report so it does not make sense how he can draw those conclusions. GOG can say that about the GIA stone because their helium scan is a very high precision instrument and will give a number to each facet allowing a judgement to be made.

Posted:  2/20/2009 5:11:38 AM
P: 2/20/2009 5:28:26 AM
vf0valkyrie
vf0valkyrie

Rough Rock
Total Posts: 57
Last Post: 5/3/2009
Member Since: 12/30/2008
 
Date: 2/20/2009 5:10:55 AM
Author: strmrdr
how does he define hotspots?

I would call the painting on the gog stone extensive not minor.


His definition of hotspots are Fire.


I have no idea how to tell if the painting is extensive or minor...

Posted:  2/20/2009 5:28:26 AM
P: 2/20/2009 5:43:45 AM
vf0valkyrie
vf0valkyrie

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Total Posts: 57
Last Post: 5/3/2009
Member Since: 12/30/2008
 
Date: 2/20/2009 5:11:38 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
Basically what Karl is saying is that GIA report for the BN stone is a rounded number, unlike AGS or for the GOG case, GOG did their own helium scan on the dimensions of the stone. So what your SA is saying between the 2 difference is still within the round off error of the GIA report so it does not make sense how he can draw those conclusions. GOG can say that about the GIA stone because their helium scan is a very high precision instrument and will give a number to each facet allowing a judgement to be made.


Hmm... I've never used a sarin machine or any other machine, other than an idealscope and aset scope...

But I was kind of surprised to read what the SA said about getting three different readings when running it three different times, for it would mean that, if what the SA said was true, readings out there would be inaccurate to say the least.

Now it sounds like that SA doesn't really know her stuff and is just giving me the usual sales talk...
Doesn't really inspire confidence in buying from Bluenile...

Posted:  2/20/2009 5:43:45 AM
P: 2/20/2009 6:08:06 AM
strmrdr
strmrdr

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aaanyway.....
I would go with the infinity if its eyeclean.

........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K

Posted:  2/20/2009 6:08:06 AM
P: 2/20/2009 6:42:58 AM
Lorelei
Lorelei

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Date: 2/20/2009 6:08:06 AM
Author: strmrdr
aaanyway.....
I would go with the infinity if its eyeclean.

Ditto









Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be...
- Stephanie M Thorn

Posted:  2/20/2009 6:42:58 AM
P: 2/20/2009 9:04:38 AM
Ellen
Ellen

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Date: 2/20/2009 4:21:46 AM
Author: Lorelei



Date: 2/20/2009 4:18:04 AM
Author: strmrdr




Date: 2/20/2009 3:16:16 AM
Author:vf0valkyrie

I was told that Diaomnd 1 would give me better fire ans scin compared to Diamond 2 because of higher Star Ratio/Deviation:55% and Depth Gridle Facet:78% compared to Diamond 2's Star Ratio/Deviation:50% and Depth Gridle Facet:75%

huh? who said that non-sense? Is that a direct quote?

In diamond 1 you have a precision cut and very well documented high performance diamond and with diamond 2 you have a poorly documented diamond in relation to cut quality that may be a high performance diamond but there is no documentation to prove it.



Word.


n/m

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any 'conspiracy theory of history' for a search for 'conspiracies' means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds."

-Murray N. Rothbard, in The Anatomy of the State



John Swinton [1829-1901] Chief Editorial Writer of the New York Times (Considered "the Dean of his Profession" by his peers), when asked to toast an 'Independent Press' in a gathering at the National Press Club, circa 1880

"There is no such thing in America as an independent press unless it is in the country towns. You know it, and I know it. There is not one of you who dare express an honest opinion. If you express it you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid... for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things....

The business of the New York journalist is to distort the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and sell his country and race for his daily bread, or for what is about the same thing, his salary. You know this, and I know it and what foolery to be toasting an 'independent press.' We are tools, and the vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping-jacks. They pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our possibilities, all are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."

Posted:  2/20/2009 9:04:38 AM
P: 2/20/2009 9:39:17 AM
Wink
Wink

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Date: 2/20/2009 3:16:16 AM
Author:vf0valkyrie
hi everyone, just like to see which diamond would you choose...
And here are the contenders...

Diamond 1)

http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/index.php?shapes=3&shapes=2&ref=4711&pid=63

Diamond 2)

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-ideal-cut-e-color-vs1-clarity_LD01375473?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

I was told that Diaomnd 1 would give me better fire ans scin compared to Diamond 2 because of higher Star Ratio/Deviation:55% and Depth Gridle Facet:78% compared to Diamond 2's Star Ratio/Deviation:50% and Depth Gridle Facet:75%

Is that true? And would I be able to tell the difference with my eyes?

Also, is it true that a faceted gridle in diamond 2 be a better choice for gridles?

Appreciate your contributions

I am going to stay out of this conversation except to correct one thing.  Both stones have faceted girdles. 

Wink

Wink Jones
GG
Winfield's/High Performance Diamonds

Posted:  2/20/2009 9:39:17 AM
P: 2/20/2009 1:16:41 PM
NeverEndingUpgrade
NeverEndingUpgrade

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Get the Infinity.

Posted:  2/20/2009 1:16:41 PM
P: 2/20/2009 6:36:31 PM
SYC
SYC

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Infinity diamonds are proven performers.  But the BN diamond has so much potential -- great angles and a great price.  If the the price difference is substantial, you could always order the BN diamond and return if you're not happy with it.  They have a good 30 day ret. policy.

Posted:  2/20/2009 6:36:31 PM
P: 2/20/2009 11:06:52 PM
Rhino
Rhino

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Like Wink I'll refrain from giving too much info but to clarify and correct some misconceptions...

1. Faceted girdles vs bruted girdles = nil when it comes to light performance and diamond beauty.  It is a non issue.

2. The expression "hot spots" is a term I have coined which specifically depicts light entering and exiting a diamond at high angles which does in fact produce more ponits of sparkle scintillation observable in spot lighting environments.  It should be noted  however that this phenomena can only be duly noted in diamonds 1ct and over.  The phenomena occurs by lengthening the lower half facets which is most likely the reason for the commentary you received.  It is even more obsevable when you lengthen the lower halves over 80%.  If you view an older video we produced on the subject "The Nature of Scintillation" we've captured and recorded this phenomena although we plan on publishing an updated high defintion clip of the same yet a bit more exhaustive covering the effects of the lower halves.  Hot spots can be seen in the blacks (amonst red/black/white) one can observe via DiamXray Reflector technology.

Hope that helps.

Kind regards,

Rhino
Good Old Gold

Posted:  2/20/2009 11:06:52 PM

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