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 » RockyTalky
»  » thoughts on these two IGI stones on jamesallen.com
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thoughts on these two IGI stones on jamesallen.com |
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| P: 2/8/2009 8:38:21 PM | |
killer_deep Rough Rock Total Posts: 30 Last Post: 3/20/2009 Member Since: 1/12/2009 |
Here are two diamonds that look quite nice on JamesAllen.com, but for the fact that they're graded by IGI and lack pavilion and crown angle information. http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1215098.asp http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1215116.asp Normally my first step would be to throw in the diamond's technical information into the HCA to make sure these are decent candidate stones. What do you guys think about these stones, and should I ask for any additional information? The second one in particular looks nice to me. Thoughts? Thanks as always, S |
| Posted: 2/8/2009 8:38:21 PM | |
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There are 30 replies to this message. There are 30 replies on this page. |
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| P: 2/8/2009 8:41:29 PM | |
JulieN Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,150 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 7/25/2005 |
IGI is fine. Ask for Ideal Scope pictures.
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| Posted: 2/8/2009 8:41:29 PM | |
| P: 2/8/2009 9:42:55 PM | |
diamondseeker2006 Ideal Rock Total Posts: 17,609 Last Post: 11/18/2009 Member Since: 1/11/2006 |
Well, IGI is fine if you consider the color and clarity may be off a grade or two. Just don't think you're getting a bargain compared to a similarly graded GIA stone.
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| Posted: 2/8/2009 9:42:55 PM | |
| P: 2/9/2009 2:54:16 AM | |
DiamondsDiamonds Cut Rock Total Posts: 121 Last Post: 2/14/2009 Member Since: 2/6/2009 |
I like the second one better also. And I agree with diamondseeker -- IGI grades too softly. GIA provides much more reliable grading.
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| Posted: 2/9/2009 2:54:16 AM | |
| P: 2/9/2009 4:10:41 AM | |
Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,269 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
This page explains how the grading labs rank - http://diamonds.pricescope.com/grading.asp IGI don't provide the essential crown and pavilion angles so we can properly judge the cut, so the only way to get more info is with an Idealscope image as Julie mentions - and preferably ask James Allen if they can run a Sarin and get the angles. Lastly, if you decide to go for an IGI graded diamond, get it independantly appraised during the return period. Appraiser tool - http://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx  Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn |
| Posted: 2/9/2009 4:10:41 AM | |
| P: 2/10/2009 12:26:51 PM | |
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killer_deep Rough Rock Total Posts: 30 Last Post: 3/20/2009 Member Since: 1/12/2009 |
Thanks everyone for your very useful replies. I was originally hunting for a J/SI1 eye-clean stone, so if the IGI grades are inflated a bit, I'll be back at my target level. Even compared to equivalent J-SI2 GIA graded stones, these two are well-priced and have great dimensions. I think that James Allen is working on idealscope and crown/pavilion angles for me right now. I'll also be making sure that the stone I pick is eyeclean. At any rate, I'll probably soon be soliciting more of your excellent advice! Thanks for the help again S
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| Posted: 2/10/2009 12:26:51 PM | |
| P: 2/10/2009 12:28:31 PM | |
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Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,269 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
Date: 2/10/2009 12:26:51 PM Author: killer_deep Thanks everyone for your very useful replies. I was originally hunting for a J/SI1 eye-clean stone, so if the IGI grades are inflated a bit, I'll be back at my target level. Even compared to equivalent J-SI2 GIA graded stones, these two are well-priced and have great dimensions. I think that James Allen is working on idealscope and crown/pavilion angles for me right now. I'll also be making sure that the stone I pick is eyeclean. At any rate, I'll probably soon be soliciting more of your excellent advice! Thanks for the help again S Most welcome and keep us posted! Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn |
| Posted: 2/10/2009 12:28:31 PM | |
| P: 2/10/2009 1:20:39 PM | |
jstarfireb Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,167 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 3/24/2007 |
They both look nicely cut, but the first looks like it may not be eye-clean (hard to tell from pictures, but I don't like those inclusions near 10-11 o'clock on the picture). The second looks very promising. Just be aware that IGI may be not just 1 but maybe 2 grades off when it comes to color and clarity, so your I/SI1 may actually be a GIA-equivalent K/I1. If you're fine with that, go ahead! Of course get the IS, check if the diamonds are eye-clean to your standards, and get it independently appraised during the return period.
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| Posted: 2/10/2009 1:20:39 PM | |
| P: 2/10/2009 3:22:12 PM | |
Regular Guy Ideal Rock Total Posts: 5,327 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 7/7/2004 |
Once upon a time JA also carried EGL options. Then they went to GIA & AGS only...and even now, on their FAQ page, I only see these referenced...but...yes, I do now see IGI options. Not sure if their approach changed or what. Ira (Ruffles have Ridges) Z. |
| Posted: 2/10/2009 3:22:12 PM | |
| P: 2/11/2009 3:40:50 PM | |
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killer_deep Rough Rock Total Posts: 30 Last Post: 3/20/2009 Member Since: 1/12/2009 |
Hello All, I've got some more updates for you. Regular Guy - apparently JA has some partnerships with other diamond dealers that generally carry IGI stones. They aren't housed in New York, at their headquarters, but they make them available on their website. Apparently the two diamonds I listed above are not available to JA in-house, and so I can't get idealscope images. They were able to run a Sarin report on both, though. They also specifically said that both are eye-clean, although the .85 ct stone is cleaner. I've also found another stone, GIA graded, J-I1, that JA has said is eye-clean. I'll post the dimensions on that stone below as well. I'm curious about whether (a) given the dimensions of the .85/.86ct stones, their excellent scores on the HCA (both are AGS0 candidates), and the images which suggest that they're well cut, is it safe to buy one of these stones? (b) what do you think of the GIA graded .90ct stone? Thanks! S
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| Posted: 2/11/2009 3:40:50 PM | |
| P: 2/11/2009 3:41:35 PM | |
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killer_deep Rough Rock Total Posts: 30 Last Post: 3/20/2009 Member Since: 1/12/2009 |
Diamond #1 Laboratory: IGI Carat Weight: 0.86 Color: I Clarity: SI1 Measurements: 6.15 - 6.17 x 3.74 mm Depth: 60.7% Table: 55.5% Polish: Excellent Symmetry: Excellent Culet: None Girdle: Thin to medium, faceted Fluorescence: None Culet: Pointed Crown Angle : 34.2° Crown %: 15.1 Pavillion Angle : 40.7° Pavillion %: 42.8 HCA score: 0.8 (ex/ex/ex/vg) > AGS0 and GIA excellent candidate 
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| Posted: 2/11/2009 3:41:35 PM | |
| P: 2/11/2009 3:43:14 PM | |
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killer_deep Rough Rock Total Posts: 30 Last Post: 3/20/2009 Member Since: 1/12/2009 |
Diamond #2 Laboratory: IGI Carat Weight: 0.85 Color: I Clarity: SI1 Measurements: 6.16 - 6.19 x 3.72 mm Depth: 60.2% Table: 55.5% Polish: Excellent Symmetry: Excellent Culet: None Girdle: Thin to medium, faceted Fluorescence: Faint Culet: Pointed Crown Angle : 34.3° Crown %: 15.2 Pavillion Angle : 40.7° Pavillion %: 42.7 HCA score: 0.8 (ex/ex/ex/ex) - don't see that too often! > AGS0 and GIA excellent candidate 
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| Posted: 2/11/2009 3:43:14 PM | |
| P: 2/11/2009 3:45:29 PM | |
AprilBaby Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,268 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 7/17/2008 |
Visually I like #2.
"Time is not what you think. Dying? Not the end of everything. We think it is. But what happens on earth is only the beginning." -Mitch Albom, The Five People You Meet in Heaven |
| Posted: 2/11/2009 3:45:29 PM | |
| P: 2/11/2009 3:47:47 PM | |
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killer_deep Rough Rock Total Posts: 30 Last Post: 3/20/2009 Member Since: 1/12/2009 |
Diamond #3 Laboratory: GIA Carat Weight: 0.90 Color: J Clarity: I1 (eye-clean) Measurements: 6.16 - 6.19 x 3.84 mm Depth: 62.2% Table: 55% Polish: Very Good Symmetry: Excellent Culet: None Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted Fluorescence: None Culet: Pointed Crown Angle : 35.5° Crown %: 16.0 Pavillion Angle : 40.4° Pavillion %: 42.5 HCA score: 0.8 (ex/ex/ex/vg) > clearly an AGS0 candidate, but only GIA very good > the GIA cut on the certification says only "very good"... why? > an idealscope image is coming up in the next 24 hours 
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| Posted: 2/11/2009 3:47:47 PM | |
| P: 2/11/2009 3:57:03 PM | |
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AprilBaby Ideal Rock Total Posts: 2,268 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 7/17/2008 |
I still visually prefer #2.
"Time is not what you think. Dying? Not the end of everything. We think it is. But what happens on earth is only the beginning." -Mitch Albom, The Five People You Meet in Heaven |
| Posted: 2/11/2009 3:57:03 PM | |
| P: 2/11/2009 3:59:51 PM | |
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Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,269 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
Date: 2/11/2009 3:57:03 PM Author: AprilBaby I still visually prefer #2. I would be most interested in the first 2 diamonds, the third I would definitely want an Idealscope image. The third gets the VG cut grade probably because of the 40.4 pavilion angle. As it is an I1 clarity, make sure it is eyeclean to your standards should you decide to go for that one. Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn |
| Posted: 2/11/2009 3:59:51 PM | |
| P: 2/11/2009 4:01:07 PM | |
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killer_deep Rough Rock Total Posts: 30 Last Post: 3/20/2009 Member Since: 1/12/2009 |
April Baby - on close inspection the .86 stone might be more symmetrically cut. The 8 arrows on the .86 appear to align better at 3:00 and 8:00 compared to the same points on the .85. Do you think this would matter at all? Do you prefer #2 because of its higher cleanliness? Part of the reason I'm so excited about these stones is because they're priced great for their size and specs, and they may be very close to Hearts & Arrows candidates without the price premium. The greater symmetry of the .86 stone (or so it appears to me) may help in that regard. Thoughts from others? Would you feel comfortable purchasing one of these stones without an idealscope image, given that they (1) look very well cut, (2) the HCA scores are exceptional, and (3) they're both AGS0/GIA excellent candidates. S
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| Posted: 2/11/2009 4:01:07 PM | |
| P: 2/11/2009 4:08:09 PM | |
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killer_deep Rough Rock Total Posts: 30 Last Post: 3/20/2009 Member Since: 1/12/2009 |
Here's a picture of the two stones at a less zoomed in level, where the inclusions are less obvious. Which one looks better cut to you folks, #1 or #2? To my eyes, #2 looks more symmetrical and better cut, but what do I know... S 
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| Posted: 2/11/2009 4:08:09 PM | |
| P: 2/11/2009 5:39:02 PM | |
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jstarfireb Ideal Rock Total Posts: 3,167 Last Post: 11/24/2009 Member Since: 3/24/2007 |
It looks like the pictures are switched in that photo...#1 is on the bottom (see the inclusions I was mentioning?) and #2 on the top. Is that right?
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| Posted: 2/11/2009 5:39:02 PM | |
| P: 2/11/2009 5:44:07 PM | |
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killer_deep Rough Rock Total Posts: 30 Last Post: 3/20/2009 Member Since: 1/12/2009 |
Ah yes, sorry about that confusion. S
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| Posted: 2/11/2009 5:44:07 PM | |
| P: 2/11/2009 5:48:18 PM | |
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JulieN Ideal Rock Total Posts: 7,150 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 7/25/2005 |
Really close. Probably doesn't matter, they both look great.
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| Posted: 2/11/2009 5:48:18 PM | |
| P: 2/12/2009 7:18:53 AM | |
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Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,269 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
Date: 2/11/2009 5:48:18 PM Author: JulieN Really close. Probably doesn't matter, they both look great. Ditto Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn |
| Posted: 2/12/2009 7:18:53 AM | |
| P: 2/12/2009 6:26:55 PM | |
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killer_deep Rough Rock Total Posts: 30 Last Post: 3/20/2009 Member Since: 1/12/2009 |
Alrighty folks, the deed is done. I placed an order for the .85ct stone, set in a 2mm 6-prong platinum comfort fit solitaire ring. Because of some strange restrictions, I have to pay for the ring + diamond, diamond gets shipped in to NY from an OH partner location, and then I can get an idealscope of it. If the idealscope checks out, then they'll set the ring. If not, I can put the money toward a different stone, or get a refund. Strange, eh? At any rate, I'll post a picture of the idealscope image when it shows up, and then solicit some final advice before 100% committing to a purchase. Apparently according to some of the folks at JA, the stone would have been classified as an H&A AGS0 if it was sent to AGS instead of IGI. Ah well... discount for me! Thanks again for all of the advice S
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| Posted: 2/12/2009 6:26:55 PM | |
| P: 2/12/2009 6:59:34 PM | |
James Allen Schultz Cut Rock Total Posts: 247 Last Post: 11/13/2009 Member Since: 6/18/2002 |
killer_deep, Congratulations on your purchase. We'll work to get you that idealscope asap, as well as check the color against GIA diamonds to see how this diamond compares. Just to clarify, however, I think what Josh tried to say is that this diamond has the proportions that we would see in an AGS diamond, and the diamond has the *potential* to be H&A. We wouldn't be able to confirm either of those facts without further analysis of the diamond in question. All the best, Jim Schultz |
| Posted: 2/12/2009 6:59:34 PM | |
| P: 2/12/2009 7:16:14 PM | |
strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
The IS image will look fine, I am curious about how the grading will turn out. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 2/12/2009 7:16:14 PM | |
| P: 2/12/2009 8:56:08 PM | |
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killer_deep Rough Rock Total Posts: 30 Last Post: 3/20/2009 Member Since: 1/12/2009 |
Jim - thanks for the clarification. That was what I had gotten out of my conversation from Josh as well; I just should've been more careful in re-wording. Either way, I'm quite happy with the purchase. strmrdr - Based on the magnified pictures, I think that the clarity will likely be accurate at SI1. If its not, I'm not particularly concerned, given that I've received a couple of assurances now of eye-cleanliness. The color is more of an issue, but the reality is that I'd be happy with a stone that was J. I'm hoping it doesn't score much lower than that... I think that given the quality of the cut, a lower color grade won't be too big a deal. I bought it assuming it was effectively a J. If it scores an I though, I wouldn't complain! Thanks all S
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| Posted: 2/12/2009 8:56:08 PM | |
| P: 2/13/2009 3:26:42 AM | |
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strmrdr Ideal Rock Total Posts: 23,296 Last Post: 10/9/2009 Member Since: 11/1/2003 |
sounds kewl let us know what you find out. ........... Karl has joined the diamond trade and is now posting as Karl_K |
| Posted: 2/13/2009 3:26:42 AM | |
| P: 2/13/2009 4:06:08 AM | |
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Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,269 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
Date: 2/13/2009 3:26:42 AM Author: strmrdr sounds kewl let us know what you find out. Ditto! Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn |
| Posted: 2/13/2009 4:06:08 AM | |
| P: 2/17/2009 3:25:41 PM | |
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killer_deep Rough Rock Total Posts: 30 Last Post: 3/20/2009 Member Since: 1/12/2009 |
Hello All, Attached is the idealscope image for the .85ct diamond. What do you all think? Should I pull the trigger on the purchase? According to Josh @ James Allen, the stone faces up white, and could have been graded a "true" GIA/AGS J according to their gemologist. Thanks in advance S 
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| Posted: 2/17/2009 3:25:41 PM | |
| P: 2/17/2009 4:08:51 PM | |
RBsearch Rough Rock Total Posts: 95 Last Post: 5/16/2009 Member Since: 1/20/2009 |
The IS image looks great to me.
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| Posted: 2/17/2009 4:08:51 PM | |
| P: 2/17/2009 4:11:09 PM | |
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Lorelei Ideal Rock Total Posts: 34,269 Last Post: 11/25/2009 Member Since: 4/30/2005 |
Image looks great!!
Nothing is more sacred as the bond between horse and rider...no other creature can ever become so emotionally close to a human as a horse. When a horse dies, the memory lives on because an enormous part of his owner's heart, soul, very existence dies also...but that can never be laid to rest, it is not meant to be... - Stephanie M Thorn |
| Posted: 2/17/2009 4:11:09 PM | |
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