bryan.boyne.gg - Posts





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Re: Been Wondering When This Would Happen - Lawsuit Over Gra

For those interested in additional discussion about EGLI you might want to see this thread: http://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/first-time-diamond-wholesale-purchase-t201496-30.html it contains some discussion about this article among other things: http://www.diamonds.net/News/NewsItem.aspx?A...

by Texas Leaguer

August 21st, 2014, 3:37 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: Been Wondering When This Would Happen - Lawsuit Over Grading

Replies: 31

Views: 1172
Re: Been Wondering When This Would Happen - Lawsuit Over Gra

This is tangential, but for those interested in the use of technology in color grading I found the earlier discussion: http://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/why-is-gia-so-slow-t202789-30.html by Texas Leaguer » 18 Jun 2014 17:01 Written by 30yearsofdiamonds » 09 Jun 2014 11:48: Info that came m...

by Texas Leaguer

August 21st, 2014, 3:14 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: Been Wondering When This Would Happen - Lawsuit Over Grading

Replies: 31

Views: 1172
Re: Been Wondering When This Would Happen - Lawsuit Over Gra

Alot of good analysis above. Add me to the list of those a little skeptical that the plaintiffs will prevail, though I very much hope they do. "Professional", programatic fraudsters are pretty adept at gaming the system. Being able to point to a third party (the EGLI) as the real culprit g...

by Texas Leaguer

August 21st, 2014, 2:59 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: Been Wondering When This Would Happen - Lawsuit Over Grading

Replies: 31

Views: 1172
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

Well Stan, you really got Serg going with your beer analogy. I am expecting any minute for Garry to storm in and to call BS on the whole system for Fosters getting such a low rating. :lol: I think there is a fundamental difference between a consumer rating system and a scientific grading system. Ho...

by Texas Leaguer

August 20th, 2014, 3:05 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

Well Stan, you really got Serg going with your beer analogy. I am expecting any minute for Garry to storm in and to call BS on the whole system for Fosters getting such a low rating. :lol: I think there is a fundamental difference between a consumer rating system and a scientific grading system. How...

by Texas Leaguer

August 20th, 2014, 1:31 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: First time diamond wholesale purchase

I think the AGS premium comes from one and only one source. Consumer demand. The GIA preference comes from the trade. They’re safe and they’re easy to sell. I’m reminded of an old rule from the personal computer business a few decades ago. No one was ever fired for buying IBM. ‘Clones’ were plentif...

by Texas Leaguer

August 20th, 2014, 10:24 am

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: First time diamond wholesale purchase

Replies: 61

Views: 1620
Re: First time diamond wholesale purchase

In the same way I don't think AGSL and the others are "taking a price hit" at 2.00 ct. Instead, the data shows that GIA commands a premium (per Bryan Boyne) in higher carats and collection-categories. I have an alternate explanation, AGSL provides reports with and without light performanc...

by Texas Leaguer

August 20th, 2014, 10:07 am

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: First time diamond wholesale purchase

Replies: 61

Views: 1620
Re: First time diamond wholesale purchase

Here's a snapshot of what Bryan refers to. From a Rap Conference in 2012: This data is derived from actual wholesale trading values on our largest B2B network. In essence, suppliers charging $ 10,000 for a given diamond with GIA 123 (ct-cut-col-clar-etc.) were charging around $ 6,900 for the same 1...

by Texas Leaguer

August 20th, 2014, 7:18 am

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: First time diamond wholesale purchase

Replies: 61

Views: 1620
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

LOL!!! Although, to be completely objective I would have to accept a penalty of about 25 points for leakage of good sense (proportionate to the quantity). Ok, here are the proper metrics: 1 part fresh squeezed lime juice. Use key limes or the small Mexican limes (they are best when yellow) 1 part C...

by Texas Leaguer

August 19th, 2014, 3:50 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

I think we will have to agree to disagree Serge. Technology helped create new genres of art. It did not teach us how to quantify whether art was more beautiful or less and modern art is not superior to the art of the masters. Let's shift your wine analogy to my beverage of choice - beer. When I was...

by Texas Leaguer

August 19th, 2014, 3:30 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: Price and cut for a D, VS2 1.51 round

Thanks everyone for all the replies. I always hear that the difference between 1 or 2 color grades isn't noticeable to most people and that I wouldn't notice an SI-1 vs VS-2 if it's eye clean. Would this cut quality actually be noticeable either? The closest comparable diamonds I've found with thes...

by Texas Leaguer

August 19th, 2014, 3:01 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: Price and cut for a D, VS2 1.51 round

Replies: 9

Views: 259
Re: Price and cut for a D, VS2 1.51 round

I'm purchasing a D, VS2, 1.51 round diamond for $12,800. My only concern is that it was GIA certified in 2001 before they rated cut. measurements are 7.24x7.38x4.68, polish is rated Very Good, Symmetry is Good. Table is 58 and depth is 64.0 which seems a little deep. Girdle is extremely thin to med...

by Texas Leaguer

August 19th, 2014, 12:52 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: Price and cut for a D, VS2 1.51 round

Replies: 9

Views: 259
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

I think we will have to agree to disagree Serge. Technology helped create new genres of art. It did not teach us how to quantify whether art was more beautiful or less and modern art is not superior to the art of the masters. Let's shift your wine analogy to my beverage of choice - beer. When I was...

by Texas Leaguer

August 19th, 2014, 10:49 am

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

Garry - what exactly do you mean by crowd sourcing? How will this process be undertaken and what aspects of the cut groups conclusions will be tested this way? Will the methodology and the results be published? Stan, not speaking for Garry- he's probably asleep down under- my understanding is that ...

by Texas Leaguer

August 19th, 2014, 7:22 am

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: GIA VS2 Eye Clean?

Good advice from the others on getting the diamond checked out by a third party professional. Normally a good practice, but particularly since the diamond may have been in circulation a while. Regarding clarity - most probably this stone will be completely eye-clean. As a VS2 with a cloud as the gra...

by Texas Leaguer

August 19th, 2014, 4:16 am

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: GIA VS2 Eye Clean?

Replies: 3

Views: 165
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

. I think there is an unfortunate aspect to the way the market has embraced AGSL grading- i.e. only the Zero is highly valued. Some of the debate here would probably not be as heated if you had a situation where people appreciated AGS 1 and 2 grades as being high end. But there seems to be a sense ...

by Texas Leaguer

August 18th, 2014, 8:21 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

Bryan perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The point of my post was that it doesn't matter what a word like brilliance means to me or you or to the AGSL or to the cut group. What matters is what it means generically to people generally and whether whatever it is that we are objectively measuring matches ...

by Texas Leaguer

August 18th, 2014, 8:13 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

In my view part of the problem here is that the words we use to describe characteristics of diamonds like "sparkle," "brightness" "fire" etc., are, first and foremost, English words with generic unscientific meanings to consumers. Would you please explain what your fat...

by Texas Leaguer

August 18th, 2014, 3:48 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

What grading system values on their PGS results would all the fancy and old cut variants they give AGS 0 grades for recieve on the RBC scale? Is that not misleading if say an AGS0 cushion gets AGS 3 on the round scale? As I understand it the cut group chose to use the Tolk round as a reference for ...

by Texas Leaguer

August 18th, 2014, 3:38 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

What grading system values on their PGS results would all the fancy and old cut variants they give AGS 0 grades for recieve on the RBC scale? Is that not misleading if say an AGS0 cushion gets AGS 3 on the round scale? As I understand it the cut group chose to use the Tolk round as a reference for ...

by Texas Leaguer

August 18th, 2014, 3:15 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

What grading system values on their PGS results would all the fancy and old cut variants they give AGS 0 grades for recieve on the RBC scale? Is that not misleading if say an AGS0 cushion gets AGS 3 on the round scale? As I understand it the cut group chose to use the Tolk round as a reference for ...

by Texas Leaguer

August 18th, 2014, 1:23 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

This specific design was analyzed by AGSL on its 3D file, it got deductions as you estimated very well both for brightness 0.60 & leakage 0.31 . Maybe if we could have the algorithm numerical value listed on the grading reports we could have a better chance utilizing the AGSL grading system for...

by Texas Leaguer

August 18th, 2014, 1:03 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

You both have alluded to the actual AGSL grading metrics which I think is very important to keep in mind in this discussion; ASET is only the graphical representation of the angular spectrum that the diamond is reflecting. While an integral part of AGS PGS construct, it is not the grading system pe...

by Texas Leaguer

August 17th, 2014, 6:36 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

DiaGem-- Setting that diamond to take full advantage of the light entering below the girdle would be very important information for the owner of that kind of diamond, or any other that was designed in this way. Prongs would block, maybe, 30% of light entering just below the girdle? When set, would ...

by Texas Leaguer

August 17th, 2014, 5:06 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

Bryan - the reason why Garry's comment that projected his own preferences onto "most" consumers surprised me was precisely because that statement seemed inconsistent to me with the extremely measured and objective approach in the terrific Rappaport article I read yesterday on my way home ...

by Texas Leaguer

August 15th, 2014, 3:04 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

Bryan- one part of your post made me think about part of why I see what seems like disagreements - I prefer to think of them as discussing fine points. but I do think it is hard for any of us to discuss diamonds and diamond beauty without introducing our own preferences or making observations based...

by Texas Leaguer

August 15th, 2014, 12:43 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

Garry - I have an enormous amount of respect for the work that you and the cut group do, specifically because you recognize complexities that other cut grade systems have chosen to ignore rather than to acknowledge and try to account for. But I was truly surprised when you wrote: "The crushed ...

by Texas Leaguer

August 15th, 2014, 9:58 am

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: AGS0 stone with a not so great Ideal-scope

http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104071516004-PLDQRH.PDF http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3178625.htm# In the last few months I've been seeing more and more stones at WF, especially in the ES line, that have this issue. AGS0 but under-performing idealscope. I f...

by Texas Leaguer

August 2nd, 2014, 8:17 am

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: AGS0 stone with a not so great Ideal-scope

Replies: 15

Views: 656
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

Here is Octavia showing a much wider range of light draw. The second image is a side view of the ETAS sphere. Remember how I have been saying that "leakage" is for the most part the diamond drawing light from the pavilion and not leakage like a window? The dots in the red lined area are t...

by Texas Leaguer

August 1st, 2014, 2:18 pm

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766
Re: ASETs and fancy cuts

Sergey posted this graphic to show how a great ASET can give bad optical results. Here I have added an ETAS image – it shows where the stone can get and return light to a cyclops observer. I think this is what Karl means when he says ‘off axis lighting” Also on the previous page 2 - Bryan, while yo...

by Texas Leaguer

August 1st, 2014, 6:58 am

Forum: RockyTalky

Topic: ASETs and fancy cuts

Replies: 279

Views: 3766