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would sir like machine or by hand?

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brum

Rough_Rock
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Hi to all

A new P.S. thread spreader here!

If you’ve heard it all before, my apologies, but as much as I dig for old threads, I fail to find anything that quenches my need to understand the basic principals that separate machine and hand cutting techniques of diamonds.

3 months ago, I set out to buy a diamond.

3 months later, I’m glad I didn’t.

I dread to think what I would have purchased back then!

I’ve learnt so much in this time and I must offer many thanks to all that have passed on information through the various forums and mediums of information on the web.

Going back to the question, my confusion is this:-

I hear that diamonds can be cut by machine or my hand.

Being an engineer, I have a feeling that the term “by hand” maybe some what misleading, so I’d like to drop a layman’s analogy in here.

If I chose to sharpen a drill bit on a grinder, I will hold it with my hands. To me this would be hand cut, but possibly someone may choose to class this as “free hand”.

Now if I decide to use a tool that will hold the drill and angle steady, whilst offering it to the grinding disk, I would personally class this as machine cut, but others may think differently.

If I casually threw the drill into a big funnel, went for a cuppa tea, cut my toe nails and returned to find a good-as-new razor sharp drill bit sitting at the other end of the contraption, I’d class this product as an automated machine cut drill bit.

So by this subjective view of cutting, what do you guys in the industry describe and prescribe as hand and machine cut?

And knowing this information, if I was to tell you that I have come to the conclusion that the cut of the diamond is my number 1 priority, simply because I want a performing diamond, is there any real advantage of one method over another? As I see it, the diamond either performs or it don’t. Which ever way we get to this standard shouldn’t matter; accept for maybe the romance of having a skilled craftsman working on your gem.

But then again, being an engineer, as much as I have great admiration for such ever-decreasing craftsmen, I feel that a machine, if designed and used correctly, can consistently achieve more accurate results.

What are the basic options for cutting Diamonds, what are most common and, of course, which option is the most valued and why?

Maybe you think I’m talking out of my a**e. However, I’d still be very, very grateful if anyone out there felt qualified to comment did so.

Thanks in advance.
 

Paul-Antwerp

Ideal_Rock
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There is not such a thing as automated machine diamond-cutting. Some steps in the process (only preparational steps) may be automated, but all of the final polishing is a result of semi-automated hand-operated work.

With semi-automated, I mean that the hand-tools have specific parts, which help in setting an index and in aiming for a specific angle.

It is a marketing-fairy-tale that small melees are cut by machines.

Also, even the automated preparational steps only work on very specific rough of a certain quality.

Live long,
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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The term ‘handmade’ usually refers to having the operative processes directed by the genius of an artisan. Obviously there are some serious room for interpretation in a definition like this. Can the artisan have helpers? How many? What constitutes an acceptable tool? Is it still called genius if the craftsman is bad?


Anyone who has ever worked with equipment knows that one of the first keys to producing a quality work product is to use quality tools. In the case of diamond cutters, this includes some pretty clever devices that might be described as automation. Like Paul above, I disagree that this diminishes the involvement of the craftsman. An artisan who chooses the best tools is not less of an artisan because of it. If a craftsman is controlling and directing the tool, then I think it’s reasonable to describe the work as being done by hand. I’ve seen people insist that it’s inappropriate to describe anything as being done by hand involving electric power. I suppose they have a point and the real question boils down to the definition of the terms. Very few modern diamond cutters use strictly manual equipment but I’m sure there are a few.


As a completely random tidbit, my brother (an engineer) was involved in designing some equipment for Kosher bakeries. In order to remain kosher, there are certain processes in a bakery that must be done by a Rabbi and in some communities this can be difficult to arrange. The problem is that bakers work in the very early hours of the morning and there just aren’t that many Rabbi’s in Fargo ND who are interested in being involved. The idea was to allow a Rabbi in, say, Florida, where it’s a lot easier to find a Rabbi and it’s 2 hours later, to turn on the ovens and deliver the blessings for the day. Surgeons do this, why not Rabbis?


As far as I know, the Rabbinical council did not approve the plan but it’s an interesting problem. Is it really a less valid blessing if the Rabbi prefers to live in a sunny place? If the master diamond cutter chooses to involve a computer in their processes, does this really make them less of a master?


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

Lynn B

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 1/7/2006 8:50:38 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

It is a marketing-fairy-tale that small melees are cut by machines.

Paul,
(I haven''t had any coffee yet
2.gif
but) I don''t understand that statement. Could you kindly clarify? Thank you!

Lynn
 

Paul-Antwerp

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 1/7/2006 10:32:36 AM
Author: Lynn B

Date: 1/7/2006 8:50:38 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

It is a marketing-fairy-tale that small melees are cut by machines.

Paul,
(I haven''t had any coffee yet
2.gif
but) I don''t understand that statement. Could you kindly clarify? Thank you!

Lynn
Some diamond sellers have a tendency to claim that their melees are machine-cut, and thus superior in consistency. However, there is no machine-cutting of melees, and what is done with machines on bigger stones, is limited to preparational work. Doing that preparational work with machines on melees is highly inefficient cost-wise.

I hope that this is clearer,
 

brum

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
63

Brilliant, thanks folks.



I’ve taken a hell of a lot of info onboard, since deciding I want to marry my lil’lady.



A salesman recently referred to his diamonds being “hand cut”. I knew it was something I had not yet come across, and so it was time to take a step back and research!



I realize a diamond could never be 100% cut by automation. I simply wanted to provide a scale of reference.



Thanks again people. Any more info is obviously most welcome.




 

Rod

Ideal_Rock
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Hey Brum,

If you are the same Brum who has been involved in a tangle on another diamond forum, welcome to Pricescope. I too had a tangle with a seller on that line and have found a much less judgmental and more supportive group here. Just wanted to welcome you. First, you will notice that there are many many many more participants on this forum. Second, you will notice that dealers never seem to start arguments with you, or ever accuse you of something (I'm sure you can relate to that). And third, you will find people feel free to express their opinions, without reproach and from the posts I've read on this forum, there are some really educated consumers here.

Anyway, I was feeling your frustration and wanted to PM you, but couldn't find a way to do that. I'm glad you have found your way to Pricescope.com. I'm sure you will find the answers you seek here.
35.gif


Rod
 

brum

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
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Hi Rod,

I noticed your tangle too!

I had some good advice and info passed onto me on the other forum. I simply had trouble logging on here, until I used my other email account as an alternative.

I have absolutely no issues with any forum, but I won''t allow anyone to play with my words & try and change their meaning for all to see.

And of course, this was a forum member, not a moderator or anyone else directly linked with that particular forum.

I simply wish to take advantage of all the helpful & educated guys and gals out there who are kind enough to pass on info, in order to make the most important purchase of my life to date.

Hope this makes sense.
 

Rod

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Makes perfect sense Brum. I have just found less criticism and more people who are helpful on this forum. I too learned a lot on the other forum, but for obvious reasons, I won''t spend more time there.
 

brum

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Messages
63
hi all,

thx for the info.

one question is still remianing.

does anyone else out there know what tool or process might be termed as cookie cutter/cutting?

cheers
 
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