With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please help!

[rstyle]

Hi people,

I'm a newbie here but for the past month I have been educating myself with all the diamond readings I could find out. I think now I would get the real search started, but how? There is just so much information.

I understand that BN is fairly good, but GOG, WF, BGD could be even better. I understand that among the 4c's, I will probably put cut as high priority, color as second, then pick an ok clarity that is eye clean, and last max out the carat based on my budget.

However, when I put in all my criteria into search, and then sort results by carats, there are still so many results that all seems pretty good to me (as they all met my criteria of course). Not to mention there are 3-4 online vendors out there. How do you guys spot the good ones among them? Do you just go into each one and look at the graghs, %'s? That would be tons of work!

Also, any Canadian out there? I'm hesitate as to whether to order the whole package online or just get the loose diamond and have it set locally. I am in Toronto btw.

Thanks in advance for your help. I might have more questions along the way, and I will also update my progress if I made any.

 

[D_]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Welcome!

Blue Nile can be quite a mixed bag. They pride themselves on their large inventory but I found it crippling when it comes time for us to narrow down our option. Plus most of the time you'll be buying blind since they they don't provide actual pictures of the diamond.

If you prioritize cut, WF and BGD are among the best, if not the best themselves. Service is top-notch too. I haven't had personal experience with GOG but have heard good stuff about them too.

One way to start is to state your budget, then you'll notice helpful fellow PSers will start chiming in with suggestion.
It will help us know what we are looking for.

Then you can always read, read and read more. I find it fun to lurk and learn new stuff every day here.

Oh and on the setting - it'll be good to have everything from one place because when things don't go as planned then the finger-pointing may happen. WF & BGD have a nice selection anyway. Unless there is a particular setting you really really want and you can only find it from local retailer in Toronto.

Hope that helps.

 

[rstyle]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Thank you so much, D_

Good point that I didn't state my budget. I would say around $12,000 but could go as high as ~$18,000 if there's one that I really like.

Thanks for the input on setting. I'm not particular picky on that as long as they offer nice selections. I guess I might just get the whole thing at one place.

I actually just read through the shipping policies among the vendors. Seems like except Blue Nile, all other places state that dealing with international tax is on myself. I wouldn't mind pay Ontario HST as this is what I ought to, but I don't like the idea of paying FedEx as well for brokerage. Don't know if it will be a rip off as they don't have clear price tag on this and once the fee incurs, there is no way back. Anyone has experience on that?

 

[D_]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

$12,000 CAD or USD?
With tax included or without?
Can make quite a difference.

Plus point with WF & BGD, shipping w/ Fedex is covered
For brokerage fee, you may need to find out more info on that.
It could be minimal since it's only charged on the amount they are covering first - which is the tax amount.
Call them up, if you set up an account or do something that allows you to pay the tax directly, then you don't need to deal w/ brokerage fee.

 

[rstyle]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

wow, I actually didn't think that much. Thanks a lot for pointing that out

Budget will be CAD 12,000 ~ 18,000 before tax. so that translate to arrpoximately USD 9600 ~ 14,500. OMG, since when CAD became so cheap !

 

[D_]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Now, subtract around $500 - $1,000 from those amount to allow for setting.
Perhaps more if you want more complicated setting/pave etc.

Plop down 1-2 carat, G-H, VS1-SI1, your budget (after subtracting the amount for setting), excellent/ideal cut on BGD & WF. You may also limit yourself to in-house inventory. After ruling out the non eye-clean SI1s, you should see around 10 stones to work with. It becomes much less overwhelming, right?

Play around with the parameters, do you want to maximize the size? How "eye clean" is your "eye-clean", what's her tolerance level for colour? etc.
Then pick about 3-5 stones, list them here for opinions or you can call the vendors directly and they'll guide you. They're nice people.

And you can always look at other vendors too, depends on how many options you want to work with. Maybe more experienced PSers here want to chime in with other wonderful vendors they've worked with? (including GOG OP has mentioned).

 

[rstyle]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Thank you so much. That is really really helpful.

For clarity, I think me personally would want to go VS1 and above (that's when my OCD kicks in). I've got question about color though. I'm tempted to go F and above as they are categorized as colorless. That gives me a piece of mind. But G-H could potentially give much more value. Just how noticeable to human eyes is there between F&G, and G&H?

One more question, I know people say WF, GOG, BGD are good. Is it because they provide those extra info. such as the Aset, Hearts images so you can pick out the best ones yourselft? Or is it that their stones are generally better so that I could assume that, for example, a A Cut Above at WF should be better than a normal stone of similar trait somewhere else?

Thank you so much!

 

[ecf8503]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

WF, BG, GOG, HPF, etc all provide the imaging technologies to prove to you - the consumer - that their product is exceptional (or not). For example, HPF, BG, and WF's ACA's are the cream of the crop - already vetted to be superior. GOG can take a little more work to sift through, IMO, but they still offer the best of the best.

I would never buy a stone "sight unseen" - but I do feel comfortable when I have the numbers and the images and videos to show me. Look for the "eye-clean" symbol on the WF stones, and you could even expand down to SI2, as some are eye clean and have no durability issues.

 

[telephone89]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Here's a few from WF for you, varying in size and clarity to give you some options.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045759.htm 1.70 ct H SI1 Premium Select $14,321
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3377988.htm 1.617 ct H VS2 Expert Selection $14,722
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3377987.htm 1.533 ct H VS2 A CUT ABOVE $14,715
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3412118.htm 1.32 ct F VS2 Expert Selection $11,334
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3227657.htm 1.318 ct H SI1 A CUT ABOVE $10,447
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3260762.htm 1.317 ct H SI1 Expert Selection $10,192
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3150826.htm 1.30 ct G VS2 Expert Selection $11,375

Size varies quite a bit, but if you want to stay in the higher colours, you can cross out all the H's. If you want to stay under 11k, cross out all the others. If you want the top of the top in cut, cross out the PS and ES. If you want to stay VS2 above, cross out the SI1s. These are ALL eyeclean. It just depends on what is most important to you.

If you wanted to max out your budget and get the biggest diamond, go for the 1.7
Best colour 1.32
Best clarity (/size) 1.67
Best cut (/size) 1.533
Best price 1.317 (but you can obviously go lower if you wanted to stay closer to 9k).

 

[rstyle]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Thank you so much, guys!

Just wonder if it is distinguishable by human eyes going from F -> G, and G -> H? Just trying to judge whether it's worthwhile to climb up the color ladder.

And for eye clean, I know normally it's assumed that if we observe from a certain distance and angle, we cannot see any inclusion. Does that mean for a SI1 or SI2, if I look really hard, it is possible to see inclusions with naked eyes even it's marked as eye clean? If that is so, I will need to avoid this as I personally couldn't tolerate that.

 

[ecf8503]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Does that mean for a SI1 or SI2, if I look really hard, it is possible to see inclusions with naked eyes even it's marked as eye clean? If that is so, I will need to avoid this as I personally couldn't tolerate that.

It may be possible - needs to be evaluated on a stone by stone basis. I have several completely eye clean SI1's, as the inclusions are under facets to the sides of the table. The busy sparkle helps hide them, and I can't see a thing. That said, I briefly had an SI1 with an inclusion smack dab in the middle of the table and it was visible and very annoying. Clarity is based on the inclusion characteristics themselves, not whether or not they are visible to the eye at a predetermined distance and angle.

 

[telephone89]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Thank you so much, guys!

Just wonder if it is distinguishable by human eyes going from F -> G, and G -> H? Just trying to judge whether it's worthwhile to climb up the color ladder.

And for eye clean, I know normally it's assumed that if we observe from a certain distance and angle, we cannot see any inclusion. Does that mean for a SI1 or SI2, if I look really hard, it is possible to see inclusions with naked eyes even it's marked as eye clean? If that is so, I will need to avoid this as I personally couldn't tolerate that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vI3Tkd3VQU here is a video with some diff colours. There is no F, but it gives a pretty good idea. Most tint is going to be seen from the side. Depending on your setting, this may be fully/partly/barely visible. MOST people would say an H is quite white. Some are more colour sensitive and will see a tint.

 

[solgen]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Thank you so much, guys!

Just wonder if it is distinguishable by human eyes going from F -> G, and G -> H? Just trying to judge whether it's worthwhile to climb up the color ladder.

And for eye clean, I know normally it's assumed that if we observe from a certain distance and angle, we cannot see any inclusion. Does that mean for a SI1 or SI2, if I look really hard, it is possible to see inclusions with naked eyes even it's marked as eye clean? If that is so, I will need to avoid this as I personally couldn't tolerate that.

How distinguishable color grades are will depend on a number of factors including your own eyesight which is a variable we can't account for. Setting can also impact perceived color so you might want to decide on what setting you want and then choose a color range. G is fairly safe though and even H can be as well. I find I to be somewhat iffy but then there have been j stones that look quite white face up.

Inclusion type and location matters so you can't just say SI1 or SI2 will be okay or not. So you'll have to base that on each individual stone. If you see an SI1 inclusion map though you might not like it and you won't have peace of mind. So it might be better to stick with VS2 for that mind assurance even if you can't see an inclusion with the naked eye. If you're really paranoid then stick with VS1 or better.

 

[rstyle]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

That video is so helpful. Thank you!

I feel that H+ would suffice for me.

I might consider putting it on a rose gold setting so that might make color even less important. BTW, any comment on rose gold setting in terms of durability, maintenance, aesthetic? Just can't stop thinking of that rose gold Verragio setting I saw!

 

[rstyle]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

@solgen @ecf8503

Thanks for the insight on clarity.

So far, I think my priority list becomes:

1 - Cut Ideal (such as A cut above) and near ideal with decent light return;
2 - Clarity VS2 and above, with exception of SI1 that is completely eye clean (can't see with naked eyes from any angle);
3 - Color H and above (exception, if I could go well with rose gold, might consider that as well);
4 - Carat as large as possible, you know what i mean

Budget stays the same. USD $9,000 - $14,000 before tax. I might need to get a cheaper stone though if I can't get over my obsession with that Verragio setting which costs $3k

 

[Lenapie]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Hi rstyle!

I'm from Canada. I totally feel you about the CAD to USD exchange rate right now. It makes the budget shrink so much!

It's great you looked through so much info before starting. This is a great place to find that perfect diamond you're looking for.

My first question to you would be have you decided what shape diamond you're wanting? I think, depending on what shape you're looking for, the vendor to choose may be dependent on that factor. For example, if you're looking for rounds, then pretty much ALL the vendors offer the best of the best round brilliant cuts, whether it be WF, HPD, or GOG to name a few. They all have round brilliants they've hand-picked, so you can't really go wrong there. It would just be a matter of finding the best deal. I know some of these vendors also offer price-matching for comparable diamonds, but you'll have to ask about that for more details.

However, if you're looking for fancy shapes, like Asschers, Cushions, Old Cuts, Emeralds etc, then I think GOG may be the best way to go. They can make you videos to see what your particular stone looks like. You really can't buy a fancy cut without seeing it, because they don't have standardized parameters (which can give you an idea as to how the stone will perform) like round brilliants do. This is why the video service is so great. You get to see the diamond in different lighting. This way you can be sure you'll like it. They can also source a stone for you, if you cannot find one you want that they have in-house, even custom-cut one for you if it's one of their own branded cuts, like the AVC, for example.

We worked with GOG to get our August Vintage Cushion and could not be happier with their service. We went to a jeweler in Seattle to custom make the setting. GOG did not offer custom designing settings at the time we got our ring. They do now!

I hope this helps narrow it down a little bit for you and is helpful!

 

[rstyle]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Thank you so much, Lenapie.

I think I will go with round brilliant cuts unless someone can tell me how to appreciate all the other fancy cuts. For now, I do not find them attractive but maybe they are in girl's eyes?

The Solasfera at GOG got my attention too (also round). But as discussion regarding this cut are limited, I doubt if I'd be able to get a good deal on this cut.

 

[Lenapie]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Is this a surprise proposal you're doing? If not, maybe it's worth it to ask your girlfriend what cut she likes. Rounds are pretty, no doubt! And it has best spread to carat ratio, I believe.

You could also look at stones that have fluorescence. As long as it doesn't make the diamond appear milky, it's something to consider, because it might give the stone a bit of a discount. And fluorescence can make warmer coloured stones appear whiter!

 

[rstyle]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Thank you so much. Yes, it will be a surprise one

I thought of that before but was not so sure as I do not want to get a milky one. Any tricks on picking up those good ones with light florescence?

 

[Ellen_GG_AJP]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Have you looked at diamonds in person yet? I think it would make sense to go look at a F color and a G color and see if YOU can see the difference. Color grading is done without magnification, clarity grading is done with magnification - meaning that yes, there are differences in color than can be seen by the naked eye but that's not always the case when it comes to clarity, in fact most clarities SI1 and above you won't be able to tell the difference with your naked eye.

I think paperwork on a diamond is great (I would never recommend buying without it) but you're not buying a piece of paper. You're buying a diamond. When your soon to be fiancé posts pictures of her ring for all of the world to see she's taking a picture of the diamond on her hand, not of the report. You need to get out and SEE diamonds with your own eyes, that's the only way to find out what is important to you in a diamond.

 

[rstyle]

Re: With all the knowledge now, how would I start? Please he

Thank you so much for the insights, Ellen.

I did check out a few stones in store but not a lot. In those store settings and lights, it was quite hard for me to tell color difference and they all sparkle like crazy. What I am looking for is someone who has real life everyday experience with the color and know if it really bothers them.

And based on my research these days, I do feel like color is something that I am willing to compromise on compared to clarity. I might soon come up with a few stones for suggestions