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Who knows about pears?

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klavigne

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What should I be looking for in a pear? I want to get my FI a 1/2 to 3/4 pear necklace for her B-day. If your not talking about a RB I''m completely lost. Can anyone tell me what type of numbers I should be looking for. I want an Ideal cut, VS1/2 or SI1 and F/G color.
I''d like to not spend more than 2K and I already know the necklace I''m going to set it in. It''s 18K white with a rope chain, 16" unless someone has another suggestion. Thank-you all in advance!!

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KristyDarling

Ideal_Rock
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Cflutist, Firegoddess, are some of the pear experts here. I''m definitely not an expert, but from what little I know, you want to shoot for a 1.5 to 1.75 length-to-width ratio. 1.5 is shorter and fatter, 1.75 is longer and skinnier. Also, well-cut pears have less of a "bow-tie" effect, which you want to avoid. That''s about all I know! Oh yeah, also with fancy cuts like pears, try to shoot for less color (nothing lower than an I or J? Not sure the lower limit) since fancies tend to show more color.
 

oldminer

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Look at the AGA Cut Class charts for pear shapes. You can screen for an appealing shape and get a lot of useful info that will help you avoid overly deep, or overly shallow stones. You will also know how to select proper girdle thickness, table size, crown height and length to width ratios. Use the Shape Selector tool on the site to further your understanding of how a diamond of a certain length and width can still be varied in overall outline. It will help you a lot.

Then, contact one or more of the good vendors here and make a more informed choice.
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Well good luck with that ideal thing cuz stringent parameters for ideal cut pears have not been set! Here is the old do it yourself grading chart from gemappraisers.com
chrt2.jpg


Main thing I would advise additionally is to look at length to width ratios to make sure the pear isn''t too fat or too skinny, and to ask whether the stone has a prominent bowtie (not a good thing). VS2 is nice (that''s what I have) but SI1 will save you money if you can find a nice eye-clean stone! The VS1 could be overkill...I persnally would go for a bigger stone and drop that clarity.
 

FireGoddess

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Forgot to mention - my L to W ratio (see pear in avatar) is about 1.5, and Diamondlil's is more - I want to say 1.67 or something - hers is more elongated than mine - do a search and she's got lotsa nice pics in her thread.
 

klavigne

Shiny_Rock
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Thanks Dave,
I know all the "typical" diamond stuff. I guess I should be more specific. What I really want to be educated on is the bowtie effect, what creates it? Also, crown/Pav angles, are there a set of numbers that fall into the Ideal range regardless of the ration of the stone? I''m not sure how an ideal pear would be graded, are the ideal angles different dependent on L/W ration? Also symmetry, how important is it to have ideal/excellent symmetry if the stone isn''t a 1:1 ratio? Is asking for an ideal cut asking a lot, I''ve only ever saw a few online, at the B&M''s they only have VG cuts, or so it seems.

Thanks gain for the help Dave, this is my 1st pear and I just want to get it right the first time!
 

klavigne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
235
One other thing Dave,
I looked under the Knowledge forum and the fancy shapes and all the links in your tutorial come up as page not found. Not sure if its a PS thing or if the links are in fact dead. Can I get these same AGA charts from your website? I''ll just go look actually!
 

klavigne

Shiny_Rock
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Thanks for the chart Fire. I''ve been looking for that. Maybe you can help me out with the ideal Crown/Pav angles, I can not seem to find them anywhere, percentages are really to vague. Also, if you could tell me a thing or two about buldge, as oldminer calls it, how does that affect the stone? I''m assuming it has somehting to do with the sym. of hte stone???.
 

FireGoddess

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Date: 3/30/2006 4:23:40 PM
Author: klavigne
Thanks for the chart Fire. I''ve been looking for that. Maybe you can help me out with the ideal Crown/Pav angles, I can not seem to find them anywhere, percentages are really to vague. Also, if you could tell me a thing or two about buldge, as oldminer calls it, how does that affect the stone? I''m assuming it has somehting to do with the sym. of hte stone???.
I wish I could give you more info than the AGA cut chart does, but I haven''t come across any. Seriously, with the chart as a tool, the best gauge for the stone is your eyes - how does the shape look, how prominent is the bowtie, etc - it''s hard to predict these just by numbers.

Dave, I thought the easiest way to play with how bulge affects shape is to use your shape selector tool, but it''s gone from PS and on your website, it says I''m not authorized to use the resource. Can that be fixed???
 

FireGoddess

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I can try to explain it, but it might confuse you more and I could get it backwards.
2.gif


Bulge refers to the curvature of the stone near the pointed end of the pear. Bulge too far outwards, you start to look more a pointy round stone. Not too nice.

Shoulders refers to the amount of curve at the round end of the pear. If the shoulders are too high, it starts to look more like a rounded triangle. Not too nice either.

Dave''s tool allows you to drag values of numbers and see the effect on the shape of a stone. It''s cool and can help a lot. I just can''t get access to it for some reason.
 

klavigne

Shiny_Rock
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235
Thats strange fire, it let me do it. I see what your saying about it now. Maybe I should just stick with a round, this might give me a headache;-)

I think the 1.5:1 looks the best so thats a start. I guess it comes down to my eyes, which stinks because I tend to be too critical. I wish there was a set of numbers to make my life easier. Also is getting a 1/2 to 3/4 pear for under 2K asking for the seas to part or can I find one in the next 5 weeks?
 

FireGoddess

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Date: 3/30/2006 4:52:44 PM
Author: klavigne
Thats strange fire, it let me do it. I see what your saying about it now. Maybe I should just stick with a round, this might give me a headache;-)

Blasphemy! I think a pear will look so good as a pendant....don''t be disheartened!!


I think the 1.5:1 looks the best so thats a start. I guess it comes down to my eyes, which stinks because I tend to be too critical. I wish there was a set of numbers to make my life easier. Also is getting a 1/2 to 3/4 pear for under 2K asking for the seas to part or can I find one in the next 5 weeks?
I like the L to W of 1.5 too...nice and plump but not overly so. You can definitely get one within that price range and size range - have you done a pricescope diamond search? Don''t forget that prices for pears are cheaper compared to rounds of the same weight...so you''ll get more stone for the $ with a pear.
 

diamondlil

Ideal_Rock
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I''m chiming in late here, but you''ve got some good advice from the others. A pear will make a great pendant, and you''ll definitely get a larger pear for your money than if you were buying a round.

My l/w ratio is 1.67:1 (good memory FG), but I personally prefer closer to 1.60:1. The problem is that well-cut pears are not a dime a dozen, and when you find a nice combination of specs, sometimes there may need to be some compromise unless you are willing to wait forever.
 

ladykemma

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Date: 3/30/2006 4:52:44 PM
Author: klavigne
Thats strange fire, it let me do it. I see what your saying about it now. Maybe I should just stick with a round, this might give me a headache;-)

I think the 1.5:1 looks the best so thats a start. I guess it comes down to my eyes, which stinks because I tend to be too critical. I wish there was a set of numbers to make my life easier. Also is getting a 1/2 to 3/4 pear for under 2K asking for the seas to part or can I find one in the next 5 weeks?
i got a wunnerful 1.25 carat pear stunner for $2000 at a pawn shop. Pears are out of style, so go look at used stones. learn to look under dirt and yuck. bring a loupe.

have fun
 

klavigne

Shiny_Rock
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Feb 21, 2006
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235
It seems to me that all the ones I''ve found online that are an Ideal cut all have just good or maybe very good polish and sym, no ideals or excellents. Is this normal? I''d like an ideal cut but I also want ideal/excellent polish & sym.
I think I''m going to go down to the pawn shop after work and take a look there, should be interesting, who knows what I''ll walk out of there with, old moose head, chainsaw, new pet rock....... who knows!!!
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I''m going off memory here but I think my polish and symm was very good, not ideal or excellent.
 

klavigne

Shiny_Rock
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So the pawn shop had nothing in a pear. Although they did have a GIA graded 1.2ct princess, F VS2 they were looking to get $3500 for. He didn''t know anything about the cut and didn''t have the actual cert, he did have the cert number and said I could call GIA to get a dup. report. Seemed like if it was a great cut and really GIA certified then it would be a great deal. I''m gonna call GIA today. I could always yank it out of the YG setting and make it into a RHR for Sweetness!
Anyway, I went to a local B&M to look at a few pears and when I pulled out my own 20 power loupe they asked me not to use it because the use a 10x loupe to grade. I told them I understood all of that but I wanted a "closer look" Well after fighting with them for about 2 minutes I just left. I figured if they were confident in their stones at 20x then why should I be. I couldn''t understand their argument. So the search continues for an ideal cut pear with ideal Pol/Sym.
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 4/5/2006 11:23:59 AM
Author: klavigne
when I pulled out my own 20 power loupe they asked me not to use it because the use a 10x loupe to grade. I told them I understood all of that but I wanted a ''closer look'' Well after fighting with them for about 2 minutes I just left. I figured if they were confident in their stones at 20x then why should I be.
20.gif
That''s pretty frustrating. You were right to walk out. If you''re considering buying their merchandise, you have a right to inspect it at 50X if you really wanted to. Just because they grade at 10x doesn''t mean you can''t have a closer look. Next vendor!! FYI, I would try to concentrate more on the numbers than the ideal polish and symm...it won''t make that much of a difference. And even though the numbers are important, your eyes are even more important. Good luck!
 

klavigne

Shiny_Rock
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Okay Fire, here we go;
I''m going to a different B&M today after work to have a looksie. They are "supposed" to be fancy cut specialist, they don''t carry many rounds. My friend bought his wifes MQ there and said they had about 100 to choose from, so it sounds promising. Only problem is it''s a hour and a half drive. So I better be prepared to buy one if I''m driving all that way. The thing is I want to have numbers to bring back to you first, so I''ll end up having to make the trip twice if they have something you give the green light on.
So far I have on my list to look at:
Ideal Cut
E-G color
VS1-SI1 (eye clean, probable go with the VS2 just for my own sake, I don''t like the sound of SI, I know I''m nuerotic!)
1.5:1 to 1.65:1 ratio
No Bow tie effect (or is it affect, I always get those two confused)
.5 to .65 ct
Half Bezel mount on the "round" side and two prongs on the pointed end for the mount.

Is there anything else I should be looking for/asking about? I wanted to thank you again for all the help, I''ve learned so much about Pears from you. They are not as cut and dry as a RB but they are really nice stones. I just hope my Sweetness will like it, right now every single rock she owns is a round, I think something different is in order!
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 4/5/2006 3:32:44 PM
Author: klavigne
So far I have on my list to look at:
Ideal Cut
E-G color
VS1-SI1 (eye clean, probable go with the VS2 just for my own sake, I don''t like the sound of SI, I know I''m nuerotic!)
1.5:1 to 1.65:1 ratio
No Bow tie effect (or is it affect, I always get those two confused)
.5 to .65 ct
Half Bezel mount on the ''round'' side and two prongs on the pointed end for the mount.

Is there anything else I should be looking for/asking about? I wanted to thank you again for all the help, I''ve learned so much about Pears from you. They are not as cut and dry as a RB but they are really nice stones. I just hope my Sweetness will like it, right now every single rock she owns is a round, I think something different is in order!
Your list looks good. Mine is a VS2, I know what you mean about not liking the sound of SI, and it''s okay.
2.gif
If you end up seeing a VS1 that sings to you, go for it, but you will get more bang for your buck at VS2 or SI1.
Your L/W ratio range looks great.
Bowtie effect - definitely make sure that any stones you really like, you ask if you can see it near a window, or the door. I know this will freak them out, but whatever. Have them hold the stone if they like, but you want to be able to see it in normal light, not just their halogen lamps or what-have-you...that make all stones seem more sparkly than in most other lighting. Also, don''t forget that the diamond will reflect the color of the clothing you wear, so try not to wear black. It will make all your pear stones look like they have huge honking bowties.
2.gif
I was looking at my stone a few days ago - I had worn black tops several days in a row, and I was thinking HOLY CRAP, the stone looks like it has this huge bowtie all of a sudden - why?!?! And then I held up a white piece of paper in front of my shirt, and boom - bowtie gone. Embarassing to admit, but for what it''s worth, best not to wear a black shirt when shopping for fancy cut diamonds. hehe.
Setting - they might have a half bezel with a vtip, which would be even better - protect the tip of the pear from chipping. Or if not a vtip, at least a prong that covers the tip.

It''s hard to shop for a fancy, and you definitely need to SEE the stones cuz the numbers aren''t the whole story...so good luck! I know it''s a lot of work but she''s going to love it!!!
 

klavigne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
235
Thanks for the tips on wearing black, luckily today I''m wearing white. So I guess I am being misleading when I say twin prongs or dual prongs. This is more what I''m looking for but with a semi/half bezel around the "fat" end of the stone.
Thank-you soooo much again. I''ll report back tonight if I''m not too tired when I get home, or first thing in the AM.

Pear with prongs.jpg
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
12,145
You're welcome! Sounds good - and that is a vtip you posted. I like 'em a tad less thick, so they don't cover so much of the pointy end. But that's good. Keeping my fingers crossed!!
 

klavigne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
235
Ahhhh. I knew there was a specific name for it!!! So I''ll ask for it a little smaller, on the semi bezel end too. Since it''s only going to be slightly larger than a half carat I want as much of the stone to show as possible. I just hope I can get everything to fall into place in time, I have until May 2nd.
 

ladykemma

Ideal_Rock
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Jan 2, 2006
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2,194
have you considered putting the princess into the pendant?

BTW affect is a verb, effect is a noun ;>
 

klavigne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
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Ladykemma,
I actually thought about that. But I tend to get carried away sometimes with the gift giving thing. I promised myself that I was going to stick to the under $2k budget this time no matter what. Besides, my FI is not a big fan of that cut. She owns all rounds right now and had commented at Christmas how lovely her friends new pear dangle earrings were and how she''d like to have a pear someday. So listening to her might actually pay off, who knew;-)
So I had so much fun last night athte B&M, they kept the store open an extra half hour for me. The sales guy really seemed to enjoy talking to me and kept asking me where I found out this or how I knew about that. PRICESCOPE BABY!!!! I actually learned a lot about how the bowtie effect works and how it''s formed, it''s all in the proportions.
So here are the two that just jumped out at me.
1st GIA cert. $1498
.54ct 7.60x4.49x2.80 mm Depth:62.4 Table:52
Very Good Cut
F color
VS2
EX polish
VG sym
VG proportions
1.69 ratio
Flor: None

2nd GIA cert. $1419
.60ct 7.77x4.80x3.00 mm Depth:62.5 Table:61
Ideal Cut
H color
VS2
VG polish
VG sym
VG proportions
1.62 ration
Flour: Neg

The two stones are fairly different from each other. I was even told they weren''t the best 2 stones that I had just looked at, by the numbers. But comparing them side by side these were the two that looked the best to me. They even let me use my own 20x loupe, never even mentioned it!!! He went to had me his and I pulled out mine and nothing was said, I liked that. So what are the thoughts on these two stones. Stone 1 has a pretty small table compared to 2 but it really shined and was as white as white. Stone 2 was noticable bigger, and had an inclusion on the table(stone 2 only had 3 of them on the lower crown), plus it was just a little too yellow for my liking, I''m spoiled on D''s and E''s!
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
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Interesting that one has a small table and the other has a slightly large table! Did you notice this when looking at them, just by your eye...the difference in table size?

Did one sing to you more than the other? The specs seem pretty good otherwise. The good thing about a pendant is that it''s not as carefully scrutinized as a ring...you can easily do H color (even a D girl like me would easily get an H for a pendant) and it won''t be noticeable if you liked the size or the sparkle of that stone better.
 

klavigne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
235
Hey Fire,
The tables sizes were noticeable. But in all reality they both were awesome stones. The small table didn''t really bother me because that stone had tons of little flashes and was really bright. The larger table stone was just as nice but threw off big broad flashes. So it''s a toss up I think. I liked all the small colored pin flashes compared to the big white flashes. The excellent polish might have sold me on that stone as well. Plus that stone is an F. I know sweetness will compare it next to her other stones, which are all D''s and E''s. I think she''d notice the H but probable not he F, although I did so who knows.
The price seems to be really good compared to what I''m finding online. I''m going back this weekend to pick one of them, I think stone one. But I''ll go back with an open mind and take one more good look at both of them.
Bonus: They can do the mount exactly like I want in 18k WG for only $150, with a 16" rope style chain. That price sounds good to me so I think I''m going to have them do the whole shabang.
Thanks again for all the advice Fire, I really do appriciate it ;-)
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
12,145
No problem. Glad to help! I don''t think you can go wrong here so take one more look but if the F sings to you and she loves colorless stones, go for it. That is a great price for the setting and necklace, so it makes sense to have them do the whole thing. Besides, since they are the ones selling you the stone, god forbid it chips while they''re setting it, it''s completely their responsibility. If a store doesn''t sell you the stone, they''re not crazy about taking responsibility for it if it chips because they''re not making much profit on the setting, as opposed to the person who sold you the stone. So it''s wise, if the price is good, to have the same guy do your necklace setting. Can''t wait to see this beauty!
 
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