Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HELP

[FLBuckeye]

I was looking for some help in finalizing my diamond purchase and was hoping the community could help me out! I'm trying to decide between a virtual selection stone vs their ideal cut in house. The specs and links are below. I guess i'm just trying to figure out why the virtual selection diamond is so much cheaper besides inventory costs. Both score well on the HCA.

Virtual Selection:
1.52 carats
VS2
I (eye clean)
1.7 HCA

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3232224.htm
http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104073347001-PLDQR.PDF

Ideal Cut
1.326
VS2
I
1.1 HCA

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3227658.htm

Thanks!

 

[nukezero]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

Virtual selection is at the warehouse where a million dealers can get access to. Nobody has verified it in store and provide data.

the Ideal cut one is in-house to White Flash. It is the same as the virtual selection with the exception that this one has been verified to be a top performer, hearts and arrows, and they provide the data to show you that it is a legit top performer. For those reasons and their services, they are charging you more for it.

Just because the technical numbers are good and HCA are good, doesn't mean that it will turn out great. At the end of the day, it comes down to putting it in scopes, machines, and verifying it.

 

[FLBuckeye]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

Thanks Nuke. That is what i gathered as well, but i guess the question is more of a based on the grading report and the HCA, do you think it's worth having them bring it in house for the imaging to determine if I want it. I have to front the full price to bring it in, but there is no cost to me if I don't like the results (i.e. i can apply all of the funds to a different stone, or get my money back).

So do you think the grading report and HCA warrant further examination? My biggest concern is the less symmetrical contrast of in the grading report for the virtual stone.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

I was looking for some help in finalizing my diamond purchase and was hoping the community could help me out! I'm trying to decide between a virtual selection stone vs their ideal cut in house. The specs and links are below. I guess i'm just trying to figure out why the virtual selection diamond is so much cheaper besides inventory costs. Both score well on the HCA.

Virtual Selection:
1.52 carats
VS2
I (eye clean)
1.7 HCA

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3232224.htm
http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104073347001-PLDQR.PDF

Ideal Cut
1.326
VS2
I
1.1 HCA

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3227658.htm

Thanks!

The virtual selection stone would not meet Whiteflash's standards for their A Cut Above line.

Some may like the stone (it is a 60/60 stone), but you are buying blind.

If you're going to go with a vendor like Whiteflash, I would suggest looking at the ACA and Expert Selection lines.

You will probably be able to find 'virtual selection' stones elsewhere for cheaper, from a vendor that just deals in drop-shipping and does not include any analysis / data.

When I look at the 1.326ct stone, it is a remarkable cut. It is impossible to say the same about the virtual selection, since you won't be able to get the data you need to make an informed decision.

 

[FLBuckeye]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

Rocky,

Why do you say that it wouldn't meet the standard for an ideal cut? What data would you need to determine this?

Whiteflash says that I will get the Idealscope and Aset images when the stone is delivered to them. What other information would I need to make an informed decision?

Thanks for your help!

Mike

 

[RockyRacoon]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

Rocky,

Why do you say that it wouldn't meet the standard for an ideal cut? What data would you need to determine this?

Whiteflash says that I will get the Idealscope and Aset images when the stone is delivered to them. What other information would I need to make an informed decision?

Thanks for your help!

Mike

Mike -

If you're able to get the Idealscope and ASET images, it doesn't hurt to investigate the stone, since they are willing to put the $ towards another stone, if you don't like it.

I was saying that it didn't meet the standards for their A Cut Above (ACA) line. Here are the parameters:
http://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/

That doesn't mean the virtual selection won't be a nice stone, just a different flavor than the traditional Tolk cut or ACA.

Your methodology of ordering the virtual selection stone, having it evaluated, and then deciding between that stone and the 1.326ct stone you had linked makes a lot of sense. I would proceed, if I were in your position.

 

[FLBuckeye]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

Thanks Rocky. I figured it was a no lose situation.

Also do you mind verifying the HCA on the virtual selection for me? I had to use the grading report instead of the white flash page (which i normally use) since the whiteflash page does have it. I keyed in the pavillion angle as 41.4, instead of 41.1 and the HCA showed a 3.5.

It would give me piece of mind to know that the 1.7 i calculated is correct!

Thanks for all of your help! I'm going to proceed with the virtual selection tomorrow and I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

It would give me piece of mind to know that the 1.7 i calculated is correct!

Thanks for all of your help! I'm going to proceed with the virtual selection tomorrow and I'll let you know how it goes.

Your calculations are correct. Falls squarely within the solid lines. Definitely worth investigating.

Let us know the results, as it is always educational for all of us, as well!

 

[tmot14]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

It's worth noting that the Whiteflash staff are wonderful about taking pictures of stones side by side if you're unsure (they've taken quite a few pictures of various diamonds side-by-side for me in different lighting, as well as some against a white background for judging color). I've ruled out a good number of diamonds that way, and found it really helpful.

 

[nukezero]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

I think when a diamond cutter knows they cut an extremely well-cut diamond, they probably give these diamonds first dibs to the vendors and letting them know first hand. This allows the vendors to buy them first so the vendors can save time and then slap the label of "A cut above", "Signature H&A", "Superior Cut", etc.etc. Of course, they'll run their tests and diagnostics on it. But this effectively saves them a lot of time as they already filtered out 99.9% of the ones that don't hit the mark.

I don't think vendors "peruse" the virtual inventory daily and look for diamonds based on the proper hca dimensions and what not.

And that's what it ends up being. The diamonds that aren't cut to that superior precision, are then distributed to other distributers worldwide where their specs are then posted including their GIA reports. Other secondary vendors may then pick those up and do their own examinations.

Okay, I'm not saying that the near-superior precision cuts are worst, in fact they are just as beautiful and nobody can tell. But they may have a slight slight deviation in the hearts or arrows, things like that. Still some vendors will purchase them and sell them in-house. But it's important to not get caught up in the dimensions and numbers. Those are just for "filtering" out the bad apples. At the end of the day, you'll want a thorough examination(aset, idealscope, etc.) and perhaps several other diamonds to compare against.

The vendor can pull in those diamonds and do the examinations for you. It just might turn out that you might like the expert selection virtual inventory better than the ACA. Your eyes are the last determination, not some fancy report or some science paper. Nobody carries around a science paper or GIA certificate wearing it on their back displaying how beautiful their diamond is.

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

I don't think vendors "peruse" the virtual inventory daily and look for diamonds based on the proper hca dimensions and what not.

That is exactly what I would expect Whiteflash and most other H&A vendors do, they select from cutting inventory of a house that specializes in "super" high quality rounds. They then apply the standards of their brand and decide which ones meet the criteria and are offered as their in house branded diamonds.

This is a consumer forum so I don't think its appropriate to go into fine detail about trade practices but lets just say you have made a lot of faulty assumptions. There are a small number of houses that specialize in ideal H&A rounds. They know before they start what the planned CA/PA angles are and the process for achieving a high level of optical symmetry that they are looking for. You don't "chance" into an AGS0000 diamond, getting close and missing is very costly and the tolerances are tight. Cutting to Tolk Ideal H&A is very costly both in time and weight loss and most houses shoot for GIA XXX with a much wider bullseye and a much larger pool of customers.

 

[FLBuckeye]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

Tmot14,

Thanks for the advice about having them photograph them side by side, and on a white backgrounds. I definitely need to have them do this.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

Please read this thread, it will answer some of your questions: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/[/URL]

 

[FLBuckeye]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

Thanks for everyone's help on the decisioning. They received the diamond and said it had fantastic light return, no leakage, great contrast, and is clean to the eye. I'm attaching a comparison to an ACA stone of similar size (ACA on the left 1.544 carats, and my stone on the right 1.52 carats), ASET, Idealscope, hearts and arrows, and a white background. Everything looks solid to me, and i think it's a great stone for the price.

Do you guys agree?

 

[FLBuckeye]

Re: Whiteflash virtual selection vs Ideal Cut in House - HEL

also these