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Whiteflash ACA -vs- Hearts on Fire ?

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Ann

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Sep 24, 2004
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1,761
I was in a local jewelry store this afternoon with my best friend.
The jeweler kept stating that HOF branded stones were the
absolute best cut stones, ever, hands down. I told him I beg to differ.
(but I didn''t feel confident enough about my knowledge of RB''s to argue)

He had a 1.43 D Hearts on Fire Round Brilliant for $23,000.00

I had to play dumb just to keep from falling to the floor! The jeweler also had my
ACA pendant at his bench trying to get a knot out of the chain. I''m sure he checked
it out while it was back there. (he cleaned it also) He later asked me where I got it,
and I proudly told him WF. He didn''t say anything.

So how DO ACA''s stand up to HOF ?
(I''m hoping someone tells me the ACA''s are hands above the HOF''s !!)
 

Kaleigh

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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29,570
Date: 5/4/2007 10:05:50 PM
Author:Ann
I was in a local jewelry store this afternoon with my best friend.
The jeweler kept stating that HOF branded stones were the
absolute best cut stones, ever, hands down. I told him I beg to differ.
(but I didn''t feel confident enough about my knowledge of RB''s to argue)

He had a 1.43 D Hearts on Fire Round Brilliant for $23,000.00

I had to play dumb just to keep from falling to the floor! The jeweler also had my
ACA pendant at his bench trying to get a knot out of the chain. I''m sure he checked
it out while it was back there. (he cleaned it also) He later asked me where I got it,
and I proudly told him WF. He didn''t say anything.

So how DO ACA''s stand up to HOF ?
(I''m hoping someone tells me the ACA''s are hands above the HOF''s !!)
ACA''s are just as nice as HOF. But you''re not paying for the branding. HOF is sold at high end B&M''s have a huge mark up, etc... I have an ACA and have seen the HOF line, no difference to me except I spent a lot less!!!
2.gif
 

Ann

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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1,761
I really wanted to compare, but I felt a little odd. This salesman already knows
I''m ultra picky. My friend buys a lot from this B&M, so I didn''t want to appear rude.
I have never bought a single thing in his store, but go in occasionally with my friend.

But from what I could see in the 1.43 HOF, mine looked just as good, if not better.
I''d love to know his reaction when he "checked it out" !
 

Ann

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
1,761
Date: 5/4/2007 10:11:16 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Date: 5/4/2007 10:05:50 PM

Author:Ann

I was in a local jewelry store this afternoon with my best friend.

The jeweler kept stating that HOF branded stones were the

absolute best cut stones, ever, hands down. I told him I beg to differ.

(but I didn''t feel confident enough about my knowledge of RB''s to argue)


He had a 1.43 D Hearts on Fire Round Brilliant for $23,000.00


I had to play dumb just to keep from falling to the floor! The jeweler also had my

ACA pendant at his bench trying to get a knot out of the chain. I''m sure he checked

it out while it was back there. (he cleaned it also) He later asked me where I got it,

and I proudly told him WF. He didn''t say anything.


So how DO ACA''s stand up to HOF ?

(I''m hoping someone tells me the ACA''s are hands above the HOF''s !!)
ACA''s are just as nice as HOF. But you''re not paying for the branding. HOF is sold at high end B&M''s have a huge mark up, etc... I have an ACA and have seen the HOF line, no difference to me except I spent a lot less!!!
2.gif

Kaleigh - I''m curious, do you know what the % markup is - ballpark?
I know you have said you sold diamonds in the past, just wondering
if you had an insight on the markup.
 

MWG

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
530
Well, I have never seen a HOF diamond, but I have an ACA and my money is on ACA and Brian the Cutter!!!!!!

MWG
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
HOF diamonds are gorgeous stones, there''s no doubt about that. BUT from what I have seen on PS I think ANY excellently cut stone with great hearts and arrows would be just as nice, if not nicer. Unless you are filthy rich and the time it would take you to go online and buy an ACA is worth more than the crazy HOF markup, I don''t see why anyone would pay for HOF. Just my .02 though...
 

Kaleigh

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
29,570
Date: 5/4/2007 10:19:54 PM
Author: Ann


Date: 5/4/2007 10:11:16 PM
Author: Kaleigh


Date: 5/4/2007 10:05:50 PM

Author:Ann

I was in a local jewelry store this afternoon with my best friend.

The jeweler kept stating that HOF branded stones were the

absolute best cut stones, ever, hands down. I told him I beg to differ.

(but I didn't feel confident enough about my knowledge of RB's to argue)


He had a 1.43 D Hearts on Fire Round Brilliant for $23,000.00


I had to play dumb just to keep from falling to the floor! The jeweler also had my

ACA pendant at his bench trying to get a knot out of the chain. I'm sure he checked

it out while it was back there. (he cleaned it also) He later asked me where I got it,

and I proudly told him WF. He didn't say anything.


So how DO ACA's stand up to HOF ?

(I'm hoping someone tells me the ACA's are hands above the HOF's !!)
ACA's are just as nice as HOF. But you're not paying for the branding. HOF is sold at high end B&M's have a huge mark up, etc... I have an ACA and have seen the HOF line, no difference to me except I spent a lot less!!!
2.gif

Kaleigh - I'm curious, do you know what the % markup is - ballpark?
I know you have said you sold diamonds in the past, just wondering
if you had an insight on the markup.
Hard to say, each retailor has their own parameters, I'd venture to guess between 20-25%?? But again am going by my OWN personal experience from B&M's in my area.. I know Keystone and am going by that... But could be off by a bit. I left my job after being held up twice. But love helping people on PS, it's a lot safer, LOL!!!
3.gif
 

risingsun

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
5,549
I have my ACA diamond set in a HOF semi-mount and also have a HOF half-eternity band. I think both ACA and HOF have outstanding diamonds. I recently looked at a HOF pendant that is defnitely on my short list of must-haves. I spoke with an independent appraiser about both brands and he had very positive things to say about them. The HOF markup is substantial! I must say I am more than happy with my new rings
1.gif
Is the ACA better? I don't think so. I see them as being comparable, as they sit on my finger
2.gif


BTW My jeweler had difficulty tellling the difference between the HOF and the ACA! When I told him about buying the ACA, he was so disappointed. He thought I had bought one of his HOF...we had to work through this and move on. Seriously.
 

Jelly

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
2,518
I have a 95 pt. K colored diamond and an .50 ct F that are Whiteflash Expert Selection (near ACA). I was at my local jeweler that sells HOF and she couldn''t tell the difference between my diamonds and hers! She went to clean them and started showing them to the other salesladies.

We compared my K to a HOF J and they looked very close in color and sparkle. I''m sure mine was thousands less in cost.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Ann, I went to look at HOF before getting my H&A diamonds and they did not have the size I wanted in stock, so they pulled up a company inventory list which gave retail prices. I perceived that mark-up was about 30% higher at least for HOF. It was comparable to Tiffany mark-up, but who cares about brand in a diamond when the item is identical to another that is less expensive? I might pay for a Tiffany piece because of the overall workmanship and design of the whole piece of jewelry, but I''d never, ever pay for a HOF brand diamond when I can get the exact same thing from WF or GOG, etc.
 

pyramid

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I sometimes wonder about rarity when I read about large mark-ups on diamonds by Tiffanys, Cartier, HOF. I know there are large mark-ups for the name but we also hear how Tiffany & Co reject a lot of rough.

I know most shoppers don't care about clarity unless they can see it with their naked eye and the same is with colour. I wonder if the grain direction and other things like twinning in the rough affects the finished price, not in a way we can see but as a rarity factor in a high quality diamond.

I don't know about HOF because I am in the UK and we never hear about them or really any other Hearts & Arrow diamond, but we do have branches of Tiffany and Cartier.

ACA being a super-ideal cut diamond may also have this high quality rough, the point I am wondering is not about them but more about high mark-ups and places like Tiffany.

Ofcourse I have also read that Tiffany wastes a lot of its rough in the cutting process due to not having the experience to cut it in an economical way so that may be it also, and that may be why they select the easier to cut rough. Who knows?
 

diagem

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Date: 5/5/2007 8:58:11 AM
Author: Pyramid
I sometimes wonder about rarity when I read about large mark-ups on diamonds by Tiffanys, Cartier, HOF. I know there are large mark-ups for the name but we also hear how Tiffany & Co reject a lot of rough.

I know most shoppers don''t care about clarity unless they can see it with their naked eye and the same is with colour. I wonder if the grain direction and other things like twinning in the rough affects the finished price, not in a way we can see but as a rarity factor in a high quality diamond.

Most Shoppers in the US..., In some parts of the world they prioritize clarity.
Most details/inclusions affect the value of a Diamond, but it is individualized on a stone per stone basis.
Some inclusions have positive affect on a Diamond (scientific purposes etc, etc...), and then the rarity takes over other factors.


I don''t know about HOF because I am in the UK and we never hear about them or really any other Hearts & Arrow diamond, but we do have branches of Tiffany and Cartier.

ACA being a super-ideal cut diamond may also have this high quality rough, the point I am wondering is not about them but more about high mark-ups and places like Tiffany.

Ofcourse I have also read that Tiffany wastes a lot of its rough in the cutting process due to not having the experience to cut it in an economical way so that may be it also, and that may be why they select the easier to cut rough. Who knows?

All Manufacturers waste A LOT of its rough material..., but the finer the cut..., the lower the yield.
Tiffany''s is cutting Diamonds since the late 1800''s! Trust them..., they have all the experience needed to cut a Diamond.
The easiest/simpler (in the high end category)the rough...,usualy means the higher the quality!!

 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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Thanks Diagem. Do you mean the easier/simple the rough (at the higher end) means the higher the quality as in E VVS1 type high grades or do you mean in something other consumers are not told in the grading such as how high the E colour as opposed to a lower E colour or how transparent the crystal is? I think I read once that for G colour there are 5 grades within it.
 

risingsun

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Messages
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I have spent a lot of time examining the workmanship of the HOF jewelry. I believe it to be very well crafted. My own set is beautifully made. The prong work is delicate and highlights the stones. I have seen a number of rings where the metal overwhelms the diamonds. This is not the case with HOF. Although my center stone is an ACA, I cannot fault the high quallity of the HOF brand. The main issue I have is the price, but I also faced this when I chose a Cartier Trinity over a nonbranded version.
 

Ann

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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I thought the workmansip of the pieces was excellent,
it was just the pricing. I hated to see my friend pay
that kind of money for HOF, when I knew she could get
equally as good with an ACA.

She was considering one pendant that had a smallish,
maybe .25ct center stone surrounded by much smaller
stones. And it was $5,900.00. For that price she could get
a gorgeous solitaire from WF. I think that is the direction
she is headed, but she wants it to be simple and painless,
no tough decisions.
 

diagem

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Date: 5/5/2007 11:56:38 AM
Author: Pyramid
Thanks Diagem. Do you mean the easier/simple the rough (at the higher end) means the higher the quality as in E VVS1 type high grades or do you mean in something other consumers are not told in the grading such as how high the E colour as opposed to a lower E colour or how transparent the crystal is? I think I read once that for G colour there are 5 grades within it.
Please remember Rough Diamonds do not come with grading reports...
The higher the quality means the higher the quality in all aspects... in each individuals eye.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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Thanks Diagem. I suppose I was thinking back to the cut diamond at that stage but you are right that would not make sense because it is the rough we are discussing. However it would correlate then with colour and clarity grades, I think I am thinking that there is something else there that is not disclosed to the consumer but I suppose when it gets to VVS1, D colour, then a grain line or crystal anomaly would be disclosed on the report.
 

diagem

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Date: 5/5/2007 1:50:43 PM
Author: Pyramid
Thanks Diagem. I suppose I was thinking back to the cut diamond at that stage but you are right that would not make sense because it is the rough we are discussing. However it would correlate then with colour and clarity grades, I think I am thinking that there is something else there that is not disclosed to the consumer but I suppose when it gets to VVS1, D colour, then a grain line or crystal anomaly would be disclosed on the report.
No secrets...., its all out there..., just need to spend a lot of time learning and practicing...
Allways remember..., this Industry is based on Illusions..., science in my opinion is more of a marketing tool.
 

risingsun

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Date: 5/5/2007 12:48:12 PM
Author: Ann
I thought the workmansip of the pieces was excellent,
it was just the pricing. I hated to see my friend pay
that kind of money for HOF, when I knew she could get
equally as good with an ACA.

She was considering one pendant that had a smallish,
maybe .25ct center stone surrounded by much smaller
stones. And it was $5,900.00. For that price she could get
a gorgeous solitaire from WF. I think that is the direction
she is headed, but she wants it to be simple and painless,
no tough decisions.
I totally agree with you. I''m sure she would be thrilled with an ACA pendant. I would
2.gif
 
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