Which ACA H&A???

[dawei213]

Hi all, newbie here. Shoot...newbie to diamonds. I've done a lot of research the past 3 days just on understanding the 4C's, table/depth, polish/symmetry, etc. Then JUST today I stumble upon this site. There is just so much but very helpful information. Kinda overwhelmed a bit but I'm learning. But after trolling around the forum for the past 4 hours I decided to register

Well to make things short, I'm planning to propose to my girlfriend. Originally thought I had to spend like 5K for a very good cut, H, VS1/VS2, 1ct diamond. However after reading through some of the older post I found out about the A Cut Above Heart & Arrow diamond. Well, when I saw the picture at whiteflash.com (another thing i found out on this forum), it completely took my breath away. It was beautiful! But I thought to myself "probably twice the amount as other diamonds". However I did a search on whiteflash.com, I found the pricing to be quite comperable to other places such as bluenile.com and moderna.com. I was pretty excited at this time.

Fast forward to now...without breaking the bank but also getting a quality diamond that's noticable visually, I've kinda narrowed it down to these two... (found on whiteflash.com)

Item Code AGS-4444503
Shape A Cut Above H&A
Carat 0.81
Color H
Clarity SI1
Measurements 5.99-6.03X3.69
Table % 57
Depth % 61.4
Polish Ideal
Symmetry Ideal
Girdle Faceted 1.0% to 1.5%
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence Negligible
Certificate AGS
Price $3,147.00

Item Code AGS-4458009
Shape A Cut Above H&A
Carat 0.812
Color G
Clarity VS2
Measurements 6.06-6.07X3.68
Table % 56
Depth % 60.6
Polish Ideal
Symmetry Ideal
Girdle Faceted 1.0% to 1.2%
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence Negligible
Certificate AGS
Price $3,837.00

I have a few questions, if anyone can help me answer them... (yes, i've gone down the carat scale so the quality scale can go up)

1) Without the use of a loupe or microscope, how much of a difference can be seen between the two in terms of the color and clarity? (since they are both right next to each other on their respective scale)

2) To LeshyH (I notice that you have many praises from this forum and might wish to speak to you soon if possible), how often does your store replish your supply of the ACA H&A diamonds? Although i've listed only two here, I was kinda hoping to see if you have anything around the 0.85 ct to 0.95 ct diamonds coming in.

3) And finally, for the ladies...(this is more personal opinion i guess), even though if you think you really want a certain engagement ring (*cough* Tiffany *cough*), if you just get another type of engagement ring but equally beautiful, you'll be happy right?

This site is a great find! Thinking now, I've spend more time now looking for the perfect diamond than I did when we bought our house (which we just did this past weekend). Definitely a busy week for me!

 

[aljdewey]

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On 12/2/2003 10:29:45 PM dawei213 wrote:

I have a few questions

1) Without the use of a loupe or microscope, how much of a difference can be seen between the two in terms of the color and clarity? (since they are both right next to each other on their respective scale)

3) And finally, for the ladies...(this is more personal opinion i guess), even though if you think you really want a certain engagement ring (*cough* Tiffany *cough*), if you just get another type of engagement ring but equally beautiful, you'll be happy right?

----------------

Hi, Dawei....welcome to PS.....and congrats on finding this PRE-purchase!

Your questions: You won't see any difference to the eye between a G and an H......the human eye typically cannot discern the subtle difference in just one color grade difference. On the clarity, as long at the SI1 is "eye-clean".....meaning it's reeeeeeeally tough to make out inclusions to the naked eye, then should be no problem.

Either stone will be beautiful.....it just depends on your budget. The extra $700 for the second stone gets you better color, better clarity and slightly tighter superideal proportions. The first stone gives you the maximum bang for the buck if your budget is a bit more constricted.

I can't speak for ALL of the ladies, but you'll find the greater majority of them here would prefer the non-Tiffany ring becaue it gives more size and EQUAL performance for better money. That's right - *equal* performance. That said, some girls still just want the name, and they are willing to settle for a (much) smaller stone to get it.

If your girl is the type who shops the off-brand stores so she can buy the *same* shirt made by Ralph Lauren......and the only thing missing is the stupid little horse......then this is the place to get her stone.

 

[dawei213]

Thanks for the welcome! Glad I found the site before my purchase.

I'm correct to assume that there are some SI1 out there with inclusion not visible to the nake eye while there are others out there that are right? Then from your experiences, would a ACA H&A SI1 be noticable?

Well luckily my girl is the flexible type. She said she gave up the thought of a Tiffany since she wants to be more realistic. Lucky me i guess!

 

[pqcollectibles]

Hi Dawei!

In response to:
2) To LeshyH (I notice that you have many praises from this forum and might wish to speak to you soon if possible), how often does your store replish your supply of the ACA H&A diamonds? Although i've listed only two here, I was kinda hoping to see if you have anything around the 0.85 ct to 0.95 ct diamonds coming in.

It would not be appropriate for Lesley to answer this type of question directly in the open Forum. You might want to call White Flash and speak with Lesley personally regarding their ACA inventory.

White Flash cuts their own diamonds. I am a proud ACA owner and I love it! The folks at WF are great to work with. They have excellent customer service, and wonderful return (though I'll doubt you'll use it

)/refund/life time upgrade policies. If you get a chance, and he's not overwhelmed with Christmas shoppers, try to steal a few moments on the phone with Brian, the Cutter. Brian, Lesley, Bob, Denise, and the whole staff of WF are very personable, professional, and knowledgeable.

Don't forget to mention Price Scope when you call. Price Scope Members get special pricing!

 

[knowverylittle]

Over the last couple of months I have been researching using this and other resources. These has yielded a few things to be sure about:

1. Size: (Most) Girls desire this over anything else
At least 1 Carat is a goal in many a female-mind. Many of us males would rather go for quality over size, but making that 1 Carat mark is very important and we should respect that

2. Color: G/H should be fine. I can see differences between an E and G pretty easily but people will argue about this all day. Looking at the sparkly side (face up) no real-life person will notice the color or even care if they did. D is my aim purely for psychological reasons; make the 1 carat goal first

3. VS2 is the lowest risk-free no visual inclusions. Almost everyone wanting the _biggest_ _quality_ stone for their a budget will go with an eye-clean SI1


Final ramble: My gf will have the final say in both stone and setting since she will wear it for a lifetime. A less romantic proposal but a lifetime without doubting she 'really' likes it. I may get a throw-away CZ - having confidence she will marry a WalMart bf makes it fun too

 

[strmrdr]

Id have them verify that the first is eye clean and if it is save the bucks and take it.
Odds are that by eye you wouldnt be able to see much of any difference in the 2 diamonds.
They are both exellent.
Ideal-scope images of the 2 would be another way to see the difference between them.
Just a hunch that there wouldnt be a lot of difference.
Both are good examples of the aca line.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 12/2/2003 11:31:44 PM dawei213 wrote:

I'm correct to assume that there are some SI1 out there with inclusion not visible to the nake eye while there are others out there that are right? Then from your experiences, would a ACA H&A SI1 be noticable?
----------------

Yes, that's a correct assumption......not all SI1s are created equal.

No, most ACA SI1s shouldn't be noticeable, especially because superior cut tends to mask more. Remember, eye clean means not readily visible to the naked eye. It doesn't mean you positively cannot see anything if you try REALLY REALLY hard......but it means that you're going to have to LOOK for them even when you know where they are, and even then you may not see them without a loupe. Under normal viewing conditions......mounted, worn on the hand, viewed at about 12-18 inches away......they should appear clean.

However, there is a way to take the guesswork out of it. Get on the horn and ask them.

I spent some time on the phone the other night asking about a few different stones and asking the cutter for his honest opinion in comparing the cleanliness of the stones. They are very candid and very eager to help you find the stone that's right for you......as are nearly all the vendors on this forum. I've been in touch with nearly every one of them in the last week, and the contact has been exemplary. I wish I could get this kind of professionalism "live and in person" at local places.

 

[strmrdr]

You also might want to check out
supercert
and
gog

They sell awesome h&a diamonds and provide a ton of information about each one.
as an example:
click here
If this is eyeclean it is one of the top diamonds in its size in that price range

 

[pqcollectibles]

I wanted to add that my ACA is .766 carat, H, SI1. Great bang for the buck on both color and clarity. Faces up bright and white and no one ever sees THE inclusion. It's an internal feather that parallel to the facets so it is totally masked from top view!

 

[strmrdr]

If you want to go for 1ct this one is awesome and under 5k.
Verify that its eyeclean

click

 

[strmrdr]

5.5k but wow
click

Anyway look around a little.
Whiteflash aca line is awesome but not the only game in town.

 

[Mara]

Hmm both look like great contenders. In the end I think it comes down to what is a priority for you. Personally, I am of the frame of mind where I would sacrifice some color and clarity to get a bigger cut. My e-ring stone is a G VS and while at the time that sounded good, a year later I feel like I should have known that I would want something like an H SI a year later in order to have gotten a bigger stone!! You are looking at two comparable stones in terms of CTW here, does your girl want a slightly larger stone possibly in the H SI combo? For that same $3800 or around $4000 you could get more like a .90 or .95 H SI H&A.....just some extra food for thought.

Between the two stones you noted, I would probably go with the G VS. For the same carat weight, you get more of a diameter up top...always something I like. It's alot more $$ though...$$ that could be put towards a bigger stone since you noted carat weight...tough call.




Since you noted you just started looking, I would also continue to explore. Don't rule out WF since I personally think ACA's are extremely beautiful, but poke around a little and see what else is out there before making the final decision--this is a purchase where you want to be SURE all your bases have been covered and there are no regrets later.




Good luck!

 

[dawei213]

Thanks for the sites strmrdr! Man, you guys are awesome!

Just a boat load of information! hehe... Well I did venture onto GOG and SuperCerts (like the way they have all the info presented). Now it makes the decision harder since now it seems like there are so much more to choose from.

This bring up another question...the difference between H&A and ACA H&A? Visibily no difference right? Or maybe light reflection is different?

Now I'm all excited in finding out more about diamond. Makes me want to have some bling of my own.

 

[knowverylittle]

It seem I have been reading this forum for too now long, as even I may know what to look at now:

It is probably $5.5K because of where the inclusion is:
In the middle of the Table - Bet it is not eye-clean
From a couple of months of surfing GOG, WF, Blue Nile, Mondera and SuperbCert anything that looks a bargain has some problem like:
.Thin/Medium->Thick girdle
.Strong Blue in a E/D color
.Bad polish/symmetry
.The cert date is early 2002 or older so the stone has not sold for some reason I do yet understand

There are no super-bargains on any of those sites, but look at my earlier Zales post and they all seem great deals.

 

[Mara]

Difference between ACA and regular H&A....don't really know if that can be easily quantified

I have a friend who has been searching for a stone, considering both ACA and H&A...and today I saw a scope image of a regular H&A stone that just blew the socks off anything else she had looked at that was 'regular' H&A and really seemed comparable in terms of scope images to an ACA. Will that stone look any different than an ACA in 'reality' (e.g. on a finger)? Who really knows. But if you use light return and scope images to help guide you, in my opinion you can't really go wrong.

BTW...also use the Pricescope 'cut quality' search engine to help you find good stones. Put in your parameters and it will only bring up Excellent HCA scorers. The interesting thing is that not all of the ones that score under 2.0 are going to be H&A--some may be AGS1 or AGS2 but still be very beautiful. Great way to get extra bang for the buck .

Cut Quality Search: http://www.pricescope.com/sift.asp

 

[strmrdr]

----------------
On 12/3/2003 12:40:40 AM knowverylittle wrote:

It seem I have been reading this forum for too now long, as even I may know what to look at now:


It is probably $5.5K because of where the inclusion is:

In the middle of the Table - Bet it is not eye-clean

From a couple of months of surfing GOG, WF, Blue Nile, Mondera and SuperbCert anything that looks a bargain has some problem like:

.Thin/Medium->Thick girdle

.Strong Blue in a E/D color

.Bad polish/symmetry

.The cert date is early 2002 or older so the stone has not sold for some reason I do yet understand


There are no super-bargains on any of those sites, but look at my earlier Zales post and they all seem great deals.----------------

Its possible but it may be eyeclean and I trust them enough to ask and if they say it is eyeclean that it will be eyeclean.

 

[strmrdr]

Difference between aca and other h&a?
Depends on the diamond and the dealer.
I would like to see a full work up on an aca
stone like GOG or supercert provides.
They both provide a ton of information and you can
tell if the diamond is a dog.

Are there sites out there selling crappy diamonds as h&a you bet there is.
imho gog and supercert arent one of them.

 

[dawei213]

----------------
On 12/3/2003 12:42:52 AM Mara wrote:


Difference between ACA and regular H&A....don't really know if that can be easily quantified

I have a friend who has been searching for a stone, considering both ACA and H&A...and today I saw a scope image of a regular H&A stone that just blew the socks off anything else she had looked at that was 'regular' H&A and really seemed comparable in terms of scope images to an ACA. Will that stone look any different than an ACA in 'reality' (e.g. on a finger)? Who really knows. But if you use light return and scope images to help guide you, in my opinion you can't really go wrong.

Cut Quality Search: http://www.pricescope.com/sift.asp
----------------

That's one thing I like about Whiteflash, that they will do upgrades for the full value of the diamond. I guess I can always present something really nice, however if it's not to my girlfriend's liking, we can always upgrade it for her. Man! I wish all products are like this...computers, cars, etc...

However I'll probably still look around, however I don't have much time. We are going to hawaii for Christmas, and that's when I plan to do the deed. Who has the fastest turnaround time if or when I make a decision on which diamond I would like to purchase?

Ok...think that's my last question...for now. Getting late and tired. Probably will wake up with more questions tomorrow. Thanks again all! You all been wonderful!

 

[Caratz]

If you are willing to pay a huge premium for a branded stone, you might want to also consider eightstar. I am not the type of person who is willing to pay a premium for a branded H&A. But if I were, I would buy an eightstar. I don't think very many (if any) pricescope vendors sell these any more, but they are the best of the best.

http://www.eightstar.com/

 

[froggy]

It's kind of irritating, but I notice that most people (especially women) tend to care about diamond size much more than quality. The 1st question my fiance is asked about her ring is "how big is it?" It's a beautiful H&A diamond that I got from GOG, but most make comments about the size of the rock. There are a few that comment about the beauty of the diamond, but I'd say less than 20%. So anyway, my vote is to get a H-I SI1 and maximize the size.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 12/3/2003 3:55:03 AM froggy wrote:

It's kind of irritating, but I notice that most people (especially women) tend to care about diamond size much more than quality. The 1st question my fiance is asked about her ring is 'how big is it?' It's a beautiful H&A diamond that I got from GOG, but most make comments about the size of the rock. There are a few that comment about the beauty of the diamond, but I'd say less than 20%. So anyway, my vote is to get a H-I SI1 and maximize the size.----------------

That's just it. I have never had anyone asked me anything about my different diamonds except "How big?" & behind my back discuss how much it "might have" cost. As long as you get a "pretty" stone (good make w/in certain parameters) it's size that one notices.

Not all women are like that. I happen to be a size girl having done the small perfect stone years ago.

At the end of the day, I am a firm believer in getting your girl what *she* wants even if it means sacrificing *your* preceived notion of what quality is.

Also, it's no secret on how I feel about "Tiffany's". Often, I think people just refer to the setting in the generic terms.

 

[magna2]

----------------
On 12/2/2003 10:29:45 PM dawei213 wrote:

I have a few questions, if anyone can help me answer them... (yes, i've gone down the carat scale so the quality scale can go up)

1) Without the use of a loupe or microscope, how much of a difference can be seen between the two in terms of the color and clarity? (since they are both right next to each other on their respective scale)

You can't tell color from using a loupe or microscope - they are for detecting inclusions. Having said that, the color differences are not noticeable by 95% of the trained folks on a consistent basis. So a typical person can't tell period. A "H" color is still a relatively non-detectable color unless you are comparing side by side with a lower color diamond.


2) To LeshyH (I notice that you have many praises from this forum and might wish to speak to you soon if possible), how often does your store replish your supply of the ACA H&A diamonds? Although i've listed only two here, I was kinda hoping to see if you have anything around the 0.85 ct to 0.95 ct diamonds coming in.

Can't speak for Whiteflash, but recommend that you check back often.

3) And finally, for the ladies...(this is more personal opinion i guess), even though if you think you really want a certain engagement ring (*cough* Tiffany *cough*), if you just get another type of engagement ring but equally beautiful, you'll be happy right?

I'll give you a male's perspective - most engagement rings sport a diamond under 1 ct. I believe the norm is around 3/4 ct. However, if you are looking through this forum, then the female perspective is as big as possible (meaning 1+ ct). My wife wanted a Tiffany e-ring (she was willing to sacrifice on size, color, and clarity), I wasn't willing to sacrifice on my hard earn dollar. We bought a 1.04 ct/E/VS2 elsewhere for a whole lot less than what a 0.5 ct G/VS2 would have cost me at Tiffany's. However, I relinguish and got our wedding bands from Tiffany's. But, till this day, my wife still reminds me that she really wanted the Tiffany e-ring. Maybe for our tenth anniversary she'll have what she wants but until that day... tough nookies to her!!

----------------

 

[Hest88]

I think most women who are not diamond-freaks go by size first because it's the most tangible thing. It's the "C" they've heard most about and is the easiest one to grasp. Unless guys are willing to get their GFs involved in the minutia of diamonds enough so that they become cut freaks, then it's safest to get something around a carat.

I seriously doubt you'll any difference between a ACA and any other legitimate H&A stone. If you like ACA, though, I'd contact them and, since you have the extra money, see if you can get an H, SI1 that's bigger than the two you've shown us. They may have other stones in the pipeline. There are also other vendors who have as many happy customers as Whiteflash so you can try them as well.

 

[knowverylittle]

canadiangrrl: How big is your eRing stone?

 

[stephcola]

I have found many people ask how large my engagement ring is. I have worn a 3 ct. ring for the last 14 years. When we bought it, we lived in NYC and went to a jeweler on 47th st. At the time, neither of us knew about GIA, etc. We bought a very sparkly 3.01 ct. for a good price. I have worn and loved that ring until it was stolen this summer. I know the stone was 3.01, (I color - supposedly from appraisal but I doubt it) and SI1 but nothing else. I received compliments galore and alway because it was so large and sparkly. In my opinion, for what it is worth, girls want big sparkly rings.

Since I have had to replace my stone, I now know much more about diamonds. I knew I wanted a nice stone but....I would not sacrifice size. I managed to get a 3.01 H totally eyeclean Si1 - ideal cut - I think pretty fabulous - just not a superideal stone. Fine by me. Since I have worn my new ring, I have recd. many compliments. I don't think I will get more compliments because my ring is a better color and cut than the last one . The compliments are usually - - how big is that!




H - SI1 is a great way to go to get a bigger stone. Just make sure it is totally eyeclean. Just my opinion. Good luck!!

 

[canadiangrrl]

It's a 1.18 RB.

I should clarify - some in my immediate circle of family & friends have asked about the size of the stone, and that's fine.

And while I have received compliments on my sparkly guy from other friends, acquaintances, and even complete strangers, they haven't asked the size, and I'm glad...because I think that's incredibly gauche. But then, I was raised to never ask overly personal questions about people's religion, salary, sexual orientation, etc. unless they volunteered that information or led the conversation in those directions. That's pretty much the norm up here - a vast generalization, mind, but I think fairly accurate.

In the US, however, it's a different story.

Was at a cocktail party with Mr. CG in the DC area, making inane cocktail chatter, and someone asked what I do for a living. I told her, and she immediately said, "Oh! How much do you make?"

 

[aljdewey]

On 12/3/2003 7:05:14 PM canadiangrrl wrote:

Was at a cocktail party with Mr. CG in the DC area, making inane cocktail chatter, and someone asked what I do for a living. I told her, and she immediately said, 'Oh! How much do you make?'

----------------

HA! Suggested replies for that scenario:

1. "How much do YOU make?"

2. "None of your DAMN business."

3. "GOD comes to me when he needs to borrow a twenty!"

4. "Enough so that if I wanted a face-lift, I could at least afford a better one than you got."

or my personal favorite........

5. "THANK GOD......I *finally* make more than I did when I was a call girl!" LMAO!

 

[canadiangrrl]

Mwahahahahahahahaha!!!! I *love* #5!!!

I think I mumbled something like, "Oh, schmirly-whoobledygoo, ifschwhoobenstank."

See, I'm normally pretty sharp with the snappy comebacks. But the problem that evening was that this do was filled with military types, and I had Mr. CG by my side. And this query was posed by the bouffanted wife of a two-star General. And Mr. CG had not yet consumed sufficient quantities of Guinness to allow me to get away with being sweetly snide.

 

[Mara]

I personally don't understand why people think it's rude to ask the size of a diamond. It's innocent curiousity. If I ask, it's because I am thinking it's 'A' and what if it's really 'B'? I would NEVER be like 'oh is that almost a carat'....but I'd still like to know if I was right or not in terms of what I was thinking. Especially because perception can be WAY off!




I was on WF's site yesterday and saw one of their setting thumbnails had what looked like a HUGE stone in it! The setting head looked monstrous. I thought, wow that must be at least a 3c. But the thumbnail was so small..and the larger image was not the same stone when clicked. So I emailed Lesley and asked her about it, she consulted Brian and he noted it was no larger than a 1.75c because that head would take nothing larger than a 1.75c, and they had never done a custom head for that ring. BOY was I way off!!

Hence...liking the asking thing.

 

[canadiangrrl]

Mara, I don't have a problem with people that have an actual interest in diamonds asking. A woman from who works in the bank that I use asked me about my stone last week - she's in the market for an e-ring, and has a genuine interest in diamonds and their beauty (I referred her to this site, natch.)

But I think a lot of "oooh, how big is it?" questions have little to do with the specs of the diamond, and more to do with, "I wonder how much he paid?" and that kind of thing.