what''s your opinion on this diamond

[Chuck S]

Hi everyone. I need some advice. I am shopping for an engagement ring. I met with a jeweler that was recommended to me by a family member. He showed me a few stones, one inparticular I inspected and I liked. My concern, however, is that the table and depth is somewhat off. The stone is gorgeous in my opinion, but I''d like yours. What''s your estimate on price for a stone with these stats? All the info is below. Thanks a lot!

Shape and Cut: Round Brilliant
Measurements:6.98-7.06 x 4.09 mm.
Weight: 1.23 carats

Depth: 58.3%
Table: 66%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick
Cutlet: Pointed

Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good

Clarity Grade: VS1
Color Grade: G
Flourescence: None

 

[MissAva]

No way to know with out all the crown and pavaillion numbers...but why go for a stone with has G/G rather then VG/VG or E/E....

 

[belle]

the depth is shallow and the table is quite large. this probably a very average cut at best.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/4/2005 8:27:40 AM
Author: belle
the depth is shallow and the table is quite large. this probably a very average cut at best.

Well said,
id peg it as more on the below average side.

 

[Chuck S]

I guess I cannot trust this jeweler. I may need to educate myself a little more and continue to look around. He was offering this stone at $6,800. To my untrained eye it really did look nice and I could hardly see any inclusions under magnification, but as you all have said the depth and table percentages would lead one to believe it is a below average stone, and that was my fear. Since it is a VS1 stone I figured I could get away with a polish grading as Good. I''m still new at this, but I appreciate your help.

 

[hoorray]

I agree that this is probably not a topcut. Do some reading of the tutorials here and on some of the diamond sites to understand better what makes a diamond really sparkle. As long as the inclusions are eye clean, clarity does not impact the look or performance of the stone. The cut does. If you have more knowledge, you''ll know what questions to ask, and the vendors shold be able to show you better stones. Make sure to view them in different lighting, especially away from the bright halogens.

Good luck!

 

[JC]

Interesting. Chuck S said "The stone is gorgeous in my opinion,...". I guess the mystery is solved. A diamond doesn''t have to be great on paper to be gorgeous after all......

 

[belle]

Date: 10/4/2005 12:06:51 PM
Author: Josh@JA
Interesting. Chuck S said 'The stone is gorgeous in my opinion,...'. I guess the mystery is solved. A diamond doesn't have to be great on paper to be gorgeous after all......

true. and we can say that not all tastes are the same and beauty is in the eye of the beholder but if you like da vinci and you've never laid eyes on the real mona lisa, chances are the paint by number rendition of it will look pretty good.

 

[Ray]

If you feel that you can''t trust the jeweler, end of game. This is a business of trust and building relationships for both us (the trade) and you (the consumer).
The information provided is inconclusive, and more importantly, one dimentional. That is to say, you''ll never know what the diamond looks like without having it in hand. Once you do, you''re still at a disadvantage because you don''t have a comparison or point of reference. Most diamonds, even the ones with proportions by Helen Keller, look pretty decent to the consumer. It''s ok to be informed, but at the end of the day, you''re putting your faith in the seller of the stone.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Actually, $6800 is a good price for that stone considering that this stone has very similar characteristics and is about the same price for a 1.09 carat (I''m assuming it has a GIA report . . . if not, scratch that). So to sum up: good price, bad stone.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Compare that 66% table to a 55% top make and see what your eyes tell you.

I''d like to see a pic of the two side by side myself.

 

[Chuck S]

I had a chance to view the stone again today. I spent a little more time with it. Although undecided, I have to admit the jeweler has been very understanding and I was little more comfortable with him today. Afterall, he is a friend of my family, but I still am a little paranoid. The stone does come with an original GIA certificate, which I have reviewed. It also helped to spend time on this site reading all the useful information and all your helpful replies and then going back to see the stone again. I understand the table and depth percentages are a factor here, I'm guessing the crown and pavillion numbers will help determining the stone's value. He showed me other stones to compare it to, different clarity, polish, symmetry etc. and I honestly like the stone compared to many others. The jeweler is supposedly giving me a great deal on it. I asked if I could put some money down on it and get it appraised by a certified gemologist and he said it was fine. It's important to note that he is certified himself. These two things upped his credibility with me. I told him I was going to shop around more and then get back to him. I just don't want to pass up a good deal. Do you think it's worth getting it appraised? He seems very confident about its value.

 

[belle]

Date: 10/4/2005 6:34:35 PM
Author: Chuck S
I understand the table and depth percentages are a factor here, I''m guessing the crown and pavillion numbers will help determining the stone''s value.

actually, they will help determine the quality and performance of the stone.

He showed me other stones to compare it to, different clarity, polish, symmetry etc. and I honestly like the stone compared to many others.

these factors will effect the stone in a more indirect way. it is actually the cut, including the crown and pavilion angles that you mentioned above that will have a direct effect on performance.

It''s important to note that he is certified himself.

i think it''s important to note that he is selling something himself.
i would be more interested in the credentials of an independent party chosen to evaluate the stone.

 

[Chuck S]

Date: 10/4/2005 6:50:12 PM
Author: belle

Date: 10/4/2005 6:34:35 PM
Author: Chuck S
I understand the table and depth percentages are a factor here, I'm guessing the crown and pavillion numbers will help determining the stone's value.

actually, they will help determine the quality and performance of the stone.

He showed me other stones to compare it to, different clarity, polish, symmetry etc. and I honestly like the stone compared to many others.

these factors will effect the stone in a more indirect way. it is actually the cut, including the crown and pavilion angles that you mentioned above that will have a direct effect on performance.

It's important to note that he is certified himself.

i think it's important to note that he is selling something himself.
i would be more interested in the credentials of an independent party chosen to evaluate the stone.

Well I wasn't going to bring it to some local store. I have a gemologist in mind if I opt to get the stone appraised. I found him on the ASA site.

 

[cutes814]

Date: 10/4/2005 12:39:21 PM
Author: belle

we can say that not all tastes are the same and beauty is in the eye of the beholder but if you like da vinci and you''ve never laid eyes on the real mona lisa, chances are the paint by number rendition of it will look pretty good.

Very well said Belle!

If Chuck has not seen ideal cut stones, then the mediocore will seem fantastic, but if he got a chance to see ideal stones, and went back to look at this stone again, it might not be as gorgeous anymore.

Chuck, if you are in no hurry, I would say take some time to do some more research.

 

[Chuck S]

Date: 10/4/2005 7:04:07 PM
Author: Milly

Date: 10/4/2005 12:39:21 PM
Author: belle

we can say that not all tastes are the same and beauty is in the eye of the beholder but if you like da vinci and you''ve never laid eyes on the real mona lisa, chances are the paint by number rendition of it will look pretty good.

Very well said Belle!

If Chuck has not seen ideal cut stones, then the mediocore will seem fantastic, but if he got a chance to see ideal stones, and went back to look at this stone again, it might not be as gorgeous anymore.

Chuck, if you are in no hurry, I would say take some time to do some more research.

I''m in no rush. At the same time I have a price range of 6-7, and if I could get a deal on a 1.23 carat stone that''s value is 1-2 higher, I''m going to take it. That''s why I''m seriously contemplating getting it appraised.

 

[cutes814]

Is that 6-7k including the setting? What do you have in mind for the setting? $6-7K can get you a very nice ring.

How about a stone like this? http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-5678908#

or this? http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=GIA-14334337
and you'll still have about $1500 left for the setting too

or this? http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-6339708


The reason I picked Whiteflash stones is I've personally had many experiences with WF and they provide great service, and their stones are beautiful. I think if you just take a look at ideal cut stones, you'll never go back to "average" stones.

 

[Chuck S]

Date: 10/4/2005 7:31:47 PM
Author: Milly
Is that 6-7k including the setting? What do you have in mind for the setting? $6-7K can get you a very nice ring.

How about a stone like this? http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-5678908#

or this? http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=GIA-14334337
and you'll still have about $1500 left for the setting too

or this? http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=AGS-6339708


The reason I picked Whiteflash stones is I've personally had many experiences with WF and they provide great service, and their stones are beautiful. I think if you just take a look at ideal cut stones, you'll never go back to 'average' stones.

I plan to spend 6-7 on the stone and 1,500 on the setting. Those stones are very nice. She wants a vs1, g stone and close to 1.25 as possible.

 

[cutes814]

It''ll be difficult to find a G, VS1 1.25ct stone at that price unless the you sacrafice a little on the cut and that is what I see you are doing with the orginal stone you have picked out in your first post on this thread.

IMO, if you don''t want to get a smaller stone, then you should go down a little on color and clarity. If she must absolutely have a VS stone, VS2 looks exactly the same as VS1 (to the naked eye, I mean). She and everyone else will not be able to see any inclusions.

Does she absolutely have to have a G color stone? Is she very sensitive to color? H and I stones are still very white as well. Especially after the stone is mounted into a setting, it is very difficult for even professionals to tell the difference.

If it were me, I would sacrafice anything but the CUT. The cut of the stone is the absolute most important. It is what seperates the poor performing stones from the outstanding performing stones. Color and clarity only come secondary.

People are drawn to diamonds because of the brilliance and fire it produces, not because of what is written on the certificate. If one person has a D, IF stone, but it only sparkles so-so, and another person has a H, SI stone that sparkles like mad.....which stone do you think will get the attention and admiration?

But in the end the decision is ultimately yours to make. I''m just trying to make sure you have more info before taking the plunge and decide to go for a better color, and clarity stone but with an average cut. Just don''t sacrafice on the cut. It''s just not worth it.

Don''t forget to let us know what you decide!

 

[MissAva]

1.19 G/SI1 from GOG 1.21 F/SI2 from WF Both of these look excellent. And are within your price range. Here is the thing though, we are comparing ideal stones to one which is very likely not ideal. Also your "friend" is supposedly giving you a deal. That is what is rubbing me the wrong way. It might be a resonable price but is by now way a deal. This person is saying that they are giving you a deal.....hmmm. I found 5 stones in your size with at least a H in color in your size range. I would suggest you at the very least look online. What sort of setting are you thinking of? Perhaps if the setting can be found for less, yea! internet, you could spend a bit more for the stone.

 

[Chuck S]

Thank you! All of your help is greatly appreciated. I have decided to get the stone appraised and see what a gemologist
has to say about the cut. I have to admit I learned more in a week here than I have in my entire life about diamonds.

 

[Chuck S]

I just wanted to update everyone. I ended up buying the stone after getting a second opinion. I also purchased a setting and had it mounted. I brought the ring to an appraiser this weekend and it was appraised for $12,300. I am thrilled!!