What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceScope?

[Diamond2014]

When I do a Google Search for certain subject on PriceScope RockyTalky, I notice that there were SOOO MANY respectable and successful professional jewelers that replied, include Garry H (Cut Nut), Texas Leaguer, James Allen Schultz, OLDMINER, Rhino, and many others ten years ago around 2004. And everyone was super active and can bring up so many knowledgeable information and debates.

What the heck happen to everyone!? It seem like all these guys just disappeared. Did the forum rule changes? This forum is getting to be quite dead compare to 10 years ago.

 

[chrono]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Garry H, Texas Leaguer, JA Schultz, Old Miner, Rhino and the rest are still around and posting. Back in 2004, ideal cut parameters for RBs were still in infancy, hence there were numerous debates on what makes one better than the other and how to improve upon it.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Chrono does raise a very good point – and I believe there's a lot more to it than that.

 

[Karl_K]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

The forum rules did change and are better enforced.
Part of it is that a lot of issues of debate have been settled.
Part of it is the rules against commenting on another vendors diamond.
Part of it is they are extremely busy and are bigger companies with more customers than 10 years ago.
Most of them still do read the forums as time allows and a few post.

In some ways they are victims of their own success, with little spare time.

 

[Karl_K]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Another reason is the skill level of the prosumers has risen as they have learned and passed on what they have learned.
Most threads I do open already have good answers from the prosumers.

 

[TC1987]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

It's a number of causes converging. Some of the vendors are no doubt very busy running their own well-established Internet businesses now, selling to clients worldwide. Back in the early to mid 2000s, many of those vendors were brick and mortar jewelry stores who read the writing on the wall or sal local sales dropping off, so they joined PS and transitioned into Internet vendors to gain access to the whole USA market, and now, the global market.

Blue Nile was the first Internet site that I can remember looking at, because they had a build-your-own e-ring feature that was advertized in some women's magazine that I happened to look at. Blue Nile is just a drop shipper, though.

There were some vendors like USA Certed and Excel Diamonds who were on Pricescope in the early days of PS but apparently don't sponsor it now. There are some vendors like NiceIce who quit selling diamonds. Also, there was a lively rival forum that's now dead as a doornail, diamondring, that was sponsored by a different group of Internet vendors. And there was a also a thriving SimsTalk forum that's gone now.

Marriage rates are probably down in the USA, unless you count the growth market of same-sex marriages. Fewer younger people are joining this forum. Some of them take all that "blood diamond" thing to heart, and won't have anything to do with diamonds or a diamond forum.

Discussion forums in general are much deader now than in late '90s to mid 2000s. People seem to just want to hang out on Facebook and yak with their Facebook friends, instead seek out and interact with strangers. I have seen a substantial dropoff in participation in computer-builder, truck and automobile, and other enthusiast forums that I frequent.

 

[AprilBaby]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Curious why Niceice stopped selling diamonds? Retired? Different field?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Contrary to those who think the forum is "dead", I know I, for one, cannot keep up with answering the many newbie posts on Rocky Talky. Thankfully there are several people who do so, because I hate when questions go unanswered. Vendors cannot recommend diamonds, so there is not a lot they can comment on.

I think Karl nailed most of the reasons. Vendors cannot comment on each others stones (or even their own without appearing to be self-promoting), you can only debate cut so much without having boring repetition, the consumers here are able to recommend great diamonds for those looking thanks to idealscope and ASET, and most of all, the successful jewelers are BUSY and do not have time to hang out here.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

I agree with a lot of what TC wrote.
The social media have diverted a lot of discussion that used to take place here- and some have gone out of business.

The forum rules did change and are better enforced.
Part of it is that a lot of issues of debate have been settled.
Part of it is the rules against commenting on another vendors diamond.
Part of it is they are extremely busy and are bigger companies with more customers than 10 years ago.
Most of them still do read the forums as time allows and a few post.

In some ways they are victims of their own success, with little spare time.

In terms of issues of debate being settled, on round diamonds, yes, there's really not a lot of "active" issues to discuss.
But in Fancy Shapes- Karl you know personally that a TON of issues are NOT settled.
And another internet phenomena- a few people dedicated to disrupt the discussion on something either they disagree with, or just don't want the subject discussed can chase professionals away.

 

[chrono]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

I'm keeping tabs on how the radiant discussion is progressing, with hopes that this will also extend to other fancy shapes in the near future.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

In terms of cut in regard to fancy shapes, I actually prefer the fact that Jonathan of GOG stopped spending time here debating and moved on to designing and producing well cut fancy shape diamonds (in addition to the well cut lines he already carried). That has a LOT more benefit to consumers, in my opinion.

 

[jerichosmom]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Todd of Nice Ice suffered 2 personal tragedies in a very short amount of time. You can do a search for it for more info. He still posts occasionally and Nice Ice now does diamond consultations but not sales.

 

[chrono]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

In terms of cut in regard to fancy shapes, I actually prefer the fact that Jonathan of GOG stopped spending time here debating and moved on to designing and producing well cut fancy shape diamonds (in addition to the well cut lines he already carried). That has a LOT more benefit to consumers, in my opinion.

It benefits him in the form of a branded cut. As consumers though, our choices now becomes limited to branded cuts. If one looks at RBs, we do not necessarily have to purchase branded cuts at a premium to get a well cut stone. I don't see why this cannot also apply to fancies.

 

[pyramid]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Well someone said not long ago I looked at old Pricescope with rose colored spectacles.

The forum is now a skeleton of what it once was.

The forum rules meant the professionals stopped answering questions and instead other customers answered each others
questions.

The economy meant more people bought poorer colored stones and with that found out they could get more size.

Then the forum and styles changed to old fashioned cut diamonds and that was when most people left, as it became
a bit of a club with people buying off ebay, showing their diamonds and talking about them.

New buyers looking for an engagement ring in the most popular round brilliant style don't find what they are looking for here, plus there is not so much marketing of the best cut round as that has been done and other rounds are good in local jewellers now. Ideal cut is not looking much better than the rounds found in stores now as the marketing has gone, it was said before that the top cuts were only a small percentage better than a well cut round, something like 4% better and could only be see with a trained eye. That is why in real life most people are not aware of one diamond looking much different than another. Bit like designer jeans, they look better but other jeans are okay too.

 

[AprilBaby]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Todd of Nice Ice suffered 2 personal tragedies in a very short amount of time. You can do a search for it for more info. He still posts occasionally and Nice Ice now does diamond consultations but not sales.

So very sorry, I didn't know.

 

[pyramid]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Another big loss to forum came about with the death of Rockdoc (Bill Liebernum). He was always on the forum and willing to
help newbies. I learned most of what I know now from him. He was the best.

 

[chrono]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Well someone said not long ago I looked at old Pricescope with rose colored spectacles.

The forum is now a skeleton of what it once was.

The forum rules meant the professionals stopped answering questions and instead other customers answered each others
questions.
Good and bad with this. The bad is less professional participation. The good is the end of self promotion.

The economy meant more people bought poorer colored stones and with that found out they could get more size.
What is "poorer" colour to you might just be the perfect colour for someone else. I like that the forum does not seem as snobbish as it used to where unless one buys extremely high colour and clarity (in addition to cut), it is looked down upon as settling for less. I happen to like both high and low coloured diamonds. There is a stone out there for every taste and preference.

Then the forum and styles changed to old fashioned cut diamonds and that was when most people left, as it became
a bit of a club with people buying off ebay, showing their diamonds and talking about them.

New buyers looking for an engagement ring in the most popular round brilliant style don't find what they are looking for here, plus there is not so much marketing of the best cut round as that has been done and other rounds are good in local jewellers now. Ideal cut is not looking much better than the rounds found in stores now as the marketing has gone, it was said before that the top cuts were only a small percentage better than a well cut round, something like 4% better and could only be see with a trained eye. That is why in real life most people are not aware of one diamond looking much different than another. Bit like designer jeans, they look better but other jeans are okay too.

 

[Karl_K]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Another big loss to forum came about with the death of Rockdoc (Bill Liebernum). He was always on the forum and willing to
help newbies. I learned most of what I know now from him. He was the best.

I miss RockDoc, he rocked.
The forum did suffer a big loss when he passed away.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

In terms of cut in regard to fancy shapes, I actually prefer the fact that Jonathan of GOG stopped spending time here debating and moved on to designing and producing well cut fancy shape diamonds (in addition to the well cut lines he already carried). That has a LOT more benefit to consumers, in my opinion.

It benefits him in the form of a branded cut. As consumers though, our choices now becomes limited to branded cuts. If one looks at RBs, we do not necessarily have to purchase branded cuts at a premium to get a well cut stone. I don't see why this cannot also apply to fancies.

Thank you Chrono- you are truly a great addition to this forum.


About the thread I started- it's a perfect example of a few very determined individuals using some nasty tricks to end the discussion.
I truly hope that I can keep Stan Grossbard involved here as he has a tremendous amount to add to any discussion of Fancy Shapes.

Very good point regarding vendors with branded diamonds- there's so many flavors that consumers should be exposed to IMO. If other people are posting their high opinions of the branded stones using terms like "performs better"- it tends to end objective discussion.
AS a result, a vendors selling these branded stones will not risk entering into a discussion. Why should they?
If I was a shopper I'd want a more objective discussion

 

[Karl_K]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

The forum rules meant the professionals stopped answering questions and instead other customers answered each others
questions.

That was the goal of the founding of pricescope, I had many discussions with the founders about this.
Their dream was consumers helping consumers with the trade merely acting as limited advisers.
That is what makes PS PS.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Karl- the "founders" are no longer involved in PS, correct?
My sense is that Andrey and Ella - PS management -welcomes trade members in a very nice way.
EVERYONE is welcome, that's what makes PS PS in my opinion.

 

[pyramid]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

The forum rules meant the professionals stopped answering questions and instead other customers answered each others
questions.

That was the goal of the founding of pricescope, I had many discussions with the founders about this.
Their dream was consumers helping consumers with the trade merely acting as limited advisers.
That is what makes PS PS.

Thanks for that KarlK, I didn't know that.

 

[cflutist]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Another big loss to forum came about with the death of Rockdoc (Bill Liebernum). He was always on the forum and willing to
help newbies. I learned most of what I know now from him. He was the best.

I miss RockDoc, he rocked.
The forum did suffer a big loss when he passed away.

I remember RockDoc, he used to tell me stories about his crazy aunt, sent me a CD once containing all these back issues of Gems & Gemology (GIA publication ) that I used to subscribe to, and was the one who told me to buy Stephen Hofer's book on Coloured Diamonds (now out of print and selling for over $1000 on Amazon. I miss him.

 

[Diamond2014]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Personally, I prefer that the rule of Vendor couldn't post their own product or comment on another's vendor's product should be abolished. From personal experience, I come to this board, to find a diamond. I do get replies from other consumer/prosumer, and I do very much appreciate that. But from what I see, people give comments base on their circumstance, rather than giving a reply that may have any use to the person posting the question.

One consumer may love "I" color while another consumer think "F" still too much yellow. Some consumer budget are $3,000 while another consumer's budget is $15,000. Consumer will never be able to reply or give a correct reply to another consumer, because they reply base on what THEY wants or have. And worst of all, consumer own maybe five diamonds in their lifetime that they can based on to tell you what beautiful performance is.

We, as consumer, just simply want to find that ONE diamond, really don't care which vendor it's from. Vendor and a professional jewelers have seen THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of diamond in their life time. They know exactly what beautiful diamond looks like. I have been learning round brilliant for two months straight now, and I dont even know what a beautiful diamond look like, even though I purchased a diamond that is so close to Tolkowski's proportions.

It's ashamed many rules chased vendors and professional away. All I see from this forum are many newbies posting questions, and waited to get a reply that doesnt get anywhere.

 

[chrono]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

I think it is all about how the consumer or newbie poses the question. If the name of the vendor isn't outed, professional trades-people are then able to give their input. Once the vendor is named, other vendors and professionals can no longer comment on the stones per PS rules.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Personally I don't find the rules to be a problem at all.
True that when a poster reveals the name of the seller and asks for opinions, it's more difficult for tradespeople to answer- but there's still some aspects where professionals can help by giving general answers.
Diamond2014- you have some excellent points.
I believe that a mix of professional and consumer viewpoints is most beneficial.
I have learned a TON through my participation here- by reading consumer viewpoints.
For some aspects, it does not matter how many diamonds one has looked at for them to add valuable input.
But there's also no substitute for real life experience.

And there's just no other way to say this but there's a few "bullies" that make life very difficult for anyone who has a different viewpoint.
They are anonymous here, yet tradespeople are not.
For this reason professionals have a lot more to loose by even the slightest risk of offending one of these people that posts all day long.
It's easy to believe that if you run aground against one of these prolific posters, you're in trouble as a vendor here.
I have also found that not to be the case, but I'm thick skinned......
As a person who's spent my life in the diamond business, I hope more tradespeople do start to post- and the ones that have been posting continue to do so.

 

[msop04]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Well someone said not long ago I looked at old Pricescope with rose colored spectacles.

The forum is now a skeleton of what it once was.

The forum rules meant the professionals stopped answering questions and instead other customers answered each others
questions.

The economy meant more people bought poorer colored stones and with that found out they could get more size.

This is your opinion, as I would imagine there are several people (myself included) who may take offense to your describing their diamonds as "poorer colored stones". There is nothing wrong with lower colored diamonds. Some people actually prefer them to icy white stones. {the horror} Lower colors do not equate to "poorer stones" -- they are just that -- "lower colors". To call these colors "poor" is rather rude, considering many PS member have them and love them.
If you'd like to wear a 0.60 ct D/IF, that's your business. As for many others, we are over the moon happy with our larger I/J/K (and lower) stones. It's about personal preference and priority.

Then the forum and styles changed to old fashioned cut diamonds and that was when most people left, as it became a bit of a club with people buying off ebay, showing their diamonds and talking about them.

New buyers looking for an engagement ring in the most popular round brilliant style don't find what they are looking for here

In RT, rounds are found for new buyers pretty much every day with the help of PS members.

...plus there is not so much marketing of the best cut round as that has been done and other rounds are good in local jewellers now. Ideal cut is not looking much better than the rounds found in stores now as the marketing has gone, it was said before that the top cuts were only a small percentage better than a well cut round, something like 4% better and could only be see with a trained eye. That is why in real life most people are not aware of one diamond looking much different than another. Bit like designer jeans, they look better but other jeans are okay too.

 

[Karl_K]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Karl- the "founders" are no longer involved in PS, correct?
My sense is that Andrey and Ella - PS management -welcomes trade members in a very nice way.
EVERYONE is welcome, that's what makes PS PS in my opinion.

Yes they are no longer involved.
However their dream has been codified in the rules and is alive and well.
Trade members are welcomed as long as they post within the rules.

 

[Niel]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Diamonds are not cars, there aren't basic versions and luxury versions when it comes to color and clarity.

To put it another way, the earth just makes diamonds, it doesn't say "I made this one, its a lesser version, I'll charge less. This one is way better, lets charge more"

We as a society decided that one color would be valued over another, but they aren't inherently "poor" or "great", they just are....

And color is one characteristic. The choice to value that characteristic is personal, and should not be looked down on. Is a .9ct d better than a 1.5 ct k if all else is equal?
Intrinsically no. Its only an individual who determines which characteristic trumps another.

 

[Diamond2014]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Rockdiamond, you hit the spot of exactly what I'm trying to say.

Vendors and professionals have seen thousands of diamonds, so they have real life experience of how a beautiful diamond looks like.

For me, the first diamond cost $15,000. When it arrive, I didnt even know how a beautiful performance diamond suppose to look like. Then I had to order ANOTHER $15,000 diamond just to have TWO diamond in my hand. I then can compare which one is better. Even though I picked one to keep and one to return, in the back of my mind, I kept on pondering if there is any other better one that I could have bought with that same amount of money. And at the same time, the seller had held onto $30,000 of my money! When I return one, it takes 3 weeks for $15,000 to go back to my bank! If I wanted to take a look at another diamond, I have to put out another $15,000!

Don't even mention about local Vendors like Jared, or Kay, or Zale. Walking into these places, they look at you like you're robbing the place. Because you're the only there, everyone continuously look at you. Then talking to them is very intimidating. They make it sound like you cant afford any of their overpriced stones with color of I to Z and clarity of SI to I

Even if vendors and professionals post something on here for sale, what's a big deal. At least one vendor can counter another vendor of why the stone is not a good stone, resulting in additional knowledge for the consumer, helping the consumer making better choices.