What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceScope?

[smitcompton]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Hi,


I don't understand how you can expect people in the general population to believe we now have equality in all kinds of diamonds. They are all valuable and it is only a matter of personal preference as to the diamond you like. For more than a half of century, or more, old cut diamonds were shunned. Most were recut to the new favored r/b cut as that became the preferred and so called "best cut".

After all this time and constant referral to D/if diamonds being the most valuable. and by inference, the best, you now want to suggest a D is the same as a K. When the high end jewelers won't provide diamonds in less than an i, and not less than vs, it means that persons do believe that is better than lower color and clarity of diamonds. We do take some of our values from the best jewelers, or will you decide we don't have "best jewelers either"?

This is not to say, that , for example Rand does not have a beautiful diamond or that you cannot find a beautiful diamond as David has suggested that may not fall with the high end jewelers parameters. But, beauty, is defined by certain sentiments of the time, and IMO, a D/IF diamond with excellent cut is superior to less well cut lower color and clarity diamonds. Its held up as the ultimate

In colored stones we accept the view that there may be top colors in all colored stones. We like to see the top colors and a few can afford those, but most settle for less as that is what they can afford. But most of us are aware they are not the sAME, EVEN IF WE prefer a lesser top color. We don't need to squabble about equality of color.

If you choose a less than top color in diamonds , why is that so difficult that you need to try to change the value system. In time maybe people will prefer JKLMNOP etc. and they will cost more. Till then, accept Top color, top cut, top clarity, without having to continually say we they are all valuable and the same. Clearly they are not, except on this board.

Annette

 

[TC1987]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

re. the local jewelers chafing about Internet sales: My local jewelers are all well aware of PS. Their problem is that they'd still rather fight and complain than switch, lol. The local owned chain still thrives by pulling the wool over the eyes of smalltown people who are a) probably not computer users to begin with, and b) thoroughly convinced that it's smarter to buy locally because the Internet can't be trusted, the Internet vendors are all STRANGERS who will RIP YOU OFF. In reality what's happening here is that the local jewelry chain and the mall jewelry chains are both doing a bangup job of selling inferior goods to too-trusting provincial people, at vastly inflated prices. If I go in there to find a "generic" H&A RB that's cut as well as what Whiteflash, GOG, BGD, or any other PS vendor can furnish in an instant, those stores don't have a thing to show me. My only option here is Hearts On Fire, which we all know is marked up just a tad higher than it ought to be. >;-D

What really and truly amazes me, though, is that, 10 years or more after Internet diamond sales took off, the one AGS jeweler in the area actually has on his or her website, a full-page rant on why you should not buy a diamond over the Internet.

If I go into any of these stores now, I get hostile glares and the cold shoulder. We now have an understanding that I am not welcome, because I didn't not buy from them, I got tired of the bulls__t and I did my own research, and I never go into a jewelry store without knowing exactly what I want to buy. Local b&m stores want the "other" type of customer who wants to be told what to do, and will make a purchase of whatever the store has in stock. They want to sell whatever is in stock, and not do anything extra beyond ordering and assembling findings from Stuller.

I am not all that far from Pittsburgh, and about 3 hours drive from Columbus, and maybe an hour from the outskirts of Cleveland suburbs. Yet, there seem to be very few people from any of those towns who participate on PS. The jewelers from the region don't participate on PS. You'd think that some appraisers would register here, but even that hasn't happened.

 

[Ella]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

If you don't want this thread to be closed please stop the childish jabs. They have been removed and you know who you are.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

DancingFire, an average one carat asscher faces up around 5.4-5.5mm. Here is a one carat Octavia that faces up at 5.7mm and another at 5.6mm. Most of GOG's speciality cuts face up LARGER than their generic or antique counterparts, in spite of things I have seen posted to the contrary. So don't worry, your diamond likely faces up well compared to a generic asscher!

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11537/ (1.02 at 5.7mm)

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12519/ (a .99 at 5.6mm)

generic asschers randomly chosen (GOG didn't have any 1 ct examples in stock):

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.00-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-304964 (5.4mm)

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.01-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-273886 (5.4mm)

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.02-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-239383 (5.5mm)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

I will give you one last example regarding new stones. I bought an excellent cut, generic asscher for a right hand ring. There were Octavia Asschers and Royal Asschers available at the time. Do I feel my asscher is inferior and needs to be replaced? No. It was well cut to begin with and I couldn't justify the cost difference for a specialty cut for a right hand ring. It's kind of like the difference between super ideal cut and ideal cut. If money were no object I might always buy super ideal, but for most coming here, budget is not unlimited and trade-offs have to be made. But we are still talking about choosing between two or more excellent cut stones, not excellent versus fair.

I say bravo, I love well cut "generic" asschers and before being forced into the trade loved helping people find one.
They do require a lot more work finding a good one than just buying a branded cut.

Karl, you were a large part in helping people like me be able to assess and recognize well cut asschers, and for that, I thank you!!! I thank you for expanding our options with your gorgeous Octavia as well!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

DancingFire, an average one carat asscher faces up around 5.4-5.5mm. Here is a one carat Octavia that faces up at 5.7mm and another at 5.6mm. Most of GOG's speciality cuts face up LARGER than their generic or antique counterparts, contrary to things I have seen posted to the contrary. So don't worry, your diamond likely faces up well compared to a generic asscher!

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11537/ (1.02 at 5.7mm)

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12519/ (a .99 at 5.6mm)

generic asschers randomly chosen (GOG didn't have any 1 ct examples in stock):

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.00-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-304964 (5.4mm)

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.01-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-273886 (5.4mm)

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.02-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-239383 (5.5mm)

We are not comparing Octavia to randomly selected "generic" Asscher diamonds- it's very easy to see the difference in size if you to compare the branded stone to a well cut, spready non branded stone. They are out there

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Back to the original question:
By posting here, a seller does open themselves up to questions about what they sell, and how they sell it.

For the seller, this can be a can of worms, or an opportunity.
I view it as golden opportunity- and I honestly hope more open discussion, such as this ones and others of late- will allow more professionals to see it this way.

 

[kenny]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

If a diamond is well cut it is not 'spready'.
If a diamond is 'spready' it is not well cut.

More obfuscation.

Apparently rules have changed and it's okay for one vendor to comment on the goods of a competitor.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

HI Kenny,
The point was made that branded stones look larger.
As a general rule, that is untrue.
There are branded stones that do look larger than their generic counterparts- like some of Yoram's OMB's
In other cases, part of the cost of achieving that look involves giving up spread.
I am by no means suggesting that this trade-off is not a valid one if someone wants that look.
I happen to love the Octavia- it's a gorgeous design.
I've seen a few up close.
But it's not a "spready" diamond, by design.

Can a spready diamond be well cut?
You're saying no, I'm saying that there are indeed beautifully cut, spready diamonds.
I've seen some jawdroppers cut by Yoram in the 50's on depth.
Well cut, Spready Pear Shapes, Ovals, Cushions- bring'em on!
I consider how large a diamond looks for is weight to be a vital aspect of the cut.
Which shopper comparing two diamonds would not notice size?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

DancingFire, an average one carat asscher faces up around 5.4-5.5mm. Here is a one carat Octavia that faces up at 5.7mm and another at 5.6mm. Most of GOG's speciality cuts face up LARGER than their generic or antique counterparts, in spite of things I have seen posted to the contrary. So don't worry, your diamond likely faces up well compared to a generic asscher!

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11537/ (1.02 at 5.7mm)

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12519/ (a .99 at 5.6mm)

generic asschers randomly chosen (GOG didn't have any 1 ct examples in stock):

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.00-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-304964 (5.4mm)

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.01-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-273886 (5.4mm)

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.02-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-239383 (5.5mm)

Thanks, DS That's what I thought..

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Can a spready diamond be well cut?
You're saying no, I'm saying that there are indeed beautifully cut, spready diamonds.
I've seen some jawdroppers cut by Yoram in the 50's on depth.
Well cut, Spready Pear Shapes, Ovals, Cushions- bring'em on!
I consider how large a diamond looks for is weight to be a vital aspect of the cut.
Which shopper comparing two diamonds would not notice size?

True, until it starts to compromise on its performance. .. I have yet to see a flat top (spready) pancake stone with Ex fire!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Can a spready diamond be well cut?
You're saying no, I'm saying that there are indeed beautifully cut, spready diamonds.
I've seen some jawdroppers cut by Yoram in the 50's on depth.
Well cut, Spready Pear Shapes, Ovals, Cushions- bring'em on!
I consider how large a diamond looks for is weight to be a vital aspect of the cut.
Which shopper comparing two diamonds would not notice size?

True, until it starts to compromise on its performance. .. I have yet to see a flat top (spready) pancake stone with Ex fire!

Hi DF,
I have a design that has a very shallow crown and off the scale fire. It's waiting for me to retire and develop it - so too secret to even show you!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Garry, why create a diamond with a very shallow crown??? The crown can be such a beautiful part of a diamond!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Can a spready diamond be well cut?
You're saying no, I'm saying that there are indeed beautifully cut, spready diamonds.
I've seen some jawdroppers cut by Yoram in the 50's on depth.
Well cut, Spready Pear Shapes, Ovals, Cushions- bring'em on!
I consider how large a diamond looks for is weight to be a vital aspect of the cut.
Which shopper comparing two diamonds would not notice size?

True, until it starts to compromise on its performance. .. I have yet to see a flat top (spready) pancake stone with Ex fire!

Hi DF,
I have a design that has a very shallow crown and off the scale fire. It's waiting for me to retire and develop it - so too secret to even show you!

Garry
Top secret.. I'll believe it when I see a video ..

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

When I do a Google Search for certain subject on PriceScope RockyTalky, I notice that there were SOOO MANY respectable and successful professional jewelers that replied, include Garry H (Cut Nut), Texas Leaguer, James Allen Schultz, OLDMINER, Rhino, and many others ten years ago around 2004. And everyone was super active and can bring up so many knowledgeable information and debates.

What the heck happen to everyone!? It seem like all these guys just disappeared. Did the forum rule changes? This forum is getting to be quite dead compare to 10 years ago.

Diamond2014 I've been here only a couple of months and frankly I've been discouraged to post new content. The search function could use a lot of work and I see a lot of "education" threads where its not your content but how well you say it that counts more here. I see threads of the past where this wasn't the case. I don't particularly like some of the sophistry and pandering to the less educated that I see going on here.

The "Cut Nuts" of old, both prosumer and trade have moved on, you can only bang your head against the wall so many times, sure they may post from time to time but from personal experience I don't think many of my own posts have enough impact for the time I put in and I'm sure a couple of those names you mentioned above feel the same.

The recent thread on "Radiant Cut Education" was in my opinion a total farce. Notably absent was John Pollard, Rhino, Garry Holloway and some others who could have provided some badly needed balance and perspective. Instead I saw an awful lot of sophistry, whereas real academic debate and content was being ignored or drowned out. Also I see some selective moderation or more aptly just immunity of some posters from being moderated as they always seem to be able to bend the rules in a way that they don't get censured.

Its not necessarily all bad or artificial, consumer tastes have also changed, probably due to rising diamond prices, shift towards antique stones, ebay, second hand, finding a "bargain" and away from "cut quality". This accurately reflects consumer tastes on and offline, price sensitivity is very much a factor these days, inflation is low but diamond prices have risen steadily the last few years.

Really its not hard to tell a novice poster, look at the length and width and equate that with spread(faceup size) for a fancy shape.
You can get more spread with a shallow leaky fancy diamond than you can with most cuts designed with optimal brilliance as a major consideration.

But it is much harder to tell someone that one diamond is more brilliant than the other using ASET images, especially when your voice is being drowned out by the the guy beside you saturating every thread with 3X as many posts as others that "well cut" means large spread and "even sparkles" and who cares about optimal brilliance because that is "undefined" and subjective.

I still think this place is the best there is in terms of a diamond education forum but it could be much improved.

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Most of .... speciality cuts face up LARGER than their generic or antique counterparts, in spite of things I have seen posted to the contrary. So don't worry, your diamond likely faces up well compared to a generic asscher!

I don't believe that to be true. Most speciality cuts are based in close proximity to round brilliant Tolkowsky proportions.
A round's depth is calculated based on its diameter or diagonal which is longer than either its length or width if it was a square whereas in a fancy its usually the length of the shorter side used for depth calculations.

All of this to say that most designs based on Tolk proportions are deeper than most (modern cushions, generic cut cornered squares, ovals, marquise, pears). For example all of the H&A (cushions, squares and cut cornered squares) have a 70%+ depth using the normal depth convention for fancy shapes calculation.

To get optimal brilliance and reflection of high angle light you need considerable crown height and a matching pavilion and that translates to deeper stones that faceup smaller.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Garry, why create a diamond with a very shallow crown??? The crown can be such a beautiful part of a diamond!

To make a diamond that provides a lot of fire DS. I had a few samples cut about 3-4 years ago, but the cutter did a lousy job. I shelved the project, but it does work well for a niche product. If there is anyone out there in cheap and cheerful goods who wants a JV, then call me

 

[alpackie]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

I bend over backwards to educate on color and clarity and encourage noobs to get out to see them in person to develop their own preference.
After learning that good light performance is from cut, not color and clarity (a common misconception), and learning how color and clarity affect price I encourage each consumer to see their compromise of the 4 Cs as perfect for them.
I never push noobs towards what I prefer, except for good light performance ... nor do I assume everyone wants the largest stone possible.

As a former super-noob, I love kenny's point here. For anyone's first diamond purchase, they need to go in person to see what their eyes are sensitive to. 50x magnified images online do not show you what you'd see with your own eyes! No professional jeweler is telepathic (or are they?)

 

[alpackie]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Diamond2014 I've been here only a couple of months and frankly I've been discouraged to post new content. The search function could use a lot of work and I see a lot of "education" threads where its not your content but how well you say it that counts more here.

When I was looking for specific things, I never used the PS search--it's the worst. Google can look at specific websites if you type in
this is where you type in what you're looking for site:https://www.pricescope.com/forum

That's how I was able to dig up old threads containing useful information.

 

[Serg]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Garry, why create a diamond with a very shallow crown??? The crown can be such a beautiful part of a diamond!

To make a diamond that provides a lot of fire DS. I had a few samples cut about 3-4 years ago, but the cutter did a lousy job. I shelved the project, but it does work well for a niche product. If there is anyone out there in cheap and cheerful goods who wants a JV, then call me

Garry,

there are 2 different goals, ways :
1) More dispersion, bigger colour flashes,..
2) Illusion of more Fire

I saw a many of fallen attempts to receive a lot of Fire( more than in standard Tolkowsky cut) by increasing dispersion. Do you remember round cut with 11, 13 main crown facets( Imperial cut? I am not sure in Name, I saw it 15-20 years ago)

Second goal is more effective . Beauty come from Illusion

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Most of .... speciality cuts face up LARGER than their generic or antique counterparts, in spite of things I have seen posted to the contrary. So don't worry, your diamond likely faces up well compared to a generic asscher!

I don't believe that to be true. Most speciality cuts are based in close proximity to round brilliant Tolkowsky proportions.
A round's depth is calculated based on its diameter or diagonal which is longer than either its length or width if it was a square whereas in a fancy its usually the length of the shorter side used for depth calculations.

All of this to say that most designs based on Tolk proportions are deeper than most (modern cushions, generic cut cornered squares, ovals, marquise, pears). For example all of the H&A (cushions, squares and cut cornered squares) have a 70%+ depth using the normal depth convention for fancy shapes calculation.

To get optimal brilliance and reflection of high angle light you need considerable crown height and a matching pavilion and that translates to deeper stones that faceup smaller.

The specialty cuts I was referring to are stones like the Octavia for which I already provided diameter comparisons above. They generally face up larger than generic well cut asschers. AVCs by Good Old Gold are also cut to have ideal light performance and face up larger than many antique cushions and some other newly cut antique style cushions for the same weight. I think it is true in many cases of AVR's versus OECs, but not always. Many old stones out there are too deep. I compare diameter of stones all the time when recommending diamonds for other people.

I think we are talking about two different things, though. I am comparing well cut stones to very well cut stones. I am not talking about shallow stones that we generally don't recommend here (except maybe one person).

 

[chrono]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Although some voices appear to be drowned out, there are many others reading without commenting and are able to differentiate between true content and "loud noise", so please keep on posting.

 

[Tekate]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

that will be amazing if it works!!! looking forward to it!

 

[Tekate]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

PS uses google doesn't it? it always says 'powered by Google".. hmm.

 

[RandG]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

I assume professionals left because they got what they needed out of the site, or grew their business through it to such a degree, they don't need it as much to drum up new business anymore. They are maximizing SEO in some other way, maybe. The "prosumers" do the work for them, allowing them to focus on the business of selling. All conjecture, of course.

I'm not so sure about some of the expert advice, often to the exclusion of one vendor, to the advantage of another who is perhaps more active on the forum either directly or indirectly, a paid sponsor even. There are people who post complete misinformation, but with total conviction and authority. If I were a vendor, it would be painful to read and have to constantly defend and correct. I'd probably pay others to do it for me. Under the radar.

I have bought both shallow and deep stones, finding beautiful attributes and value in both. I just bought a rose cut piece for a song and I'm enjoying my pancakes very much, thank you. I have a big deep old stone right now that is a great candidate for a re-cut, will increase my investment two-fold. But I wouldn't dream of altering a piece of original fine art, an antique, a vintage car.

I think it helps consumers to read about various experiences and see images, but to isolate anyone's preferences to general inferiority... I'm not so sure that's helpful.

I belong to a small group of collectors, all very passionate about old cut stones-- traditionalists. Within our group, we trade pieces, pass along good opportunities, offer advice, probably no different to what has evolved here. After I found this forum I encouraged the others in the group to post here too, join the conversation, share some really amazing old pieces, contribute the library that has become Pricescope. After studying the site, even attempting a few posts, they've all moved on. The general consensus was pretty lukewarm, mostly because of the often quick, and biting comments of some. If I was a paid sponsor of the site, the tone, at times, would give me some pause too. The attacks are a big turn-off. I hope professionals like RockDiamond and Melisendediamonds don't give up, continue to stay active, correct the fictions, and help frame these discussions in a way that allows people permission to think about and explore all the options, cognizant of the trade-offs, always. I know I learn from their posts, and many others too. It's only a valuable site (and profitable, I imagine) if the forum encourages both trade and consumers to participate in a meaningful way.

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

The specialty cuts I was referring to are stones like the Octavia for which I already provided diameter comparisons above.

Square Emerald cuts are a special case where I would tend to agree with you, generics quite often have two steep rows under the gridle followed by the P3 which is often too shallow to keep the Depth at or above 70%. This allows for more weight left in the pavilion and not the best spread. However there are not many branded Square Emerald cuts and they have very low production, hardly representative of speciality cuts in general. I haven't seen a Royal Asscher in Canada in a few years since Birks the only listed retailor stopped offering them but If I remember correctly they had about average spread.

They generally face up larger than generic well cut asschers. AVCs by Good Old Gold are also cut to have ideal light performance and face up larger than many antique cushions and some other newly cut antique style cushions for the same weight.

True Antique stones have proportions all over the place as they tended to follow more closely the proportions of the rough. I wouldn't generalize that newly cut stones in the vintage style have better spread than antiques, it may be true but I've seen more cases where it was the opposite, which doesn't mean much as my sample size is not statistically relevant. While modern cut stones in the vintage style faces up larger than an H&A cushion the are still less spready than most modern styles owing to a taller crown.

I think it is true in many cases of AVR's versus OECs, but not always. Many old stones out there are too deep. I compare diameter of stones all the time when recommending diamonds for other people.

Vintage faceted rounds faceup smaller than the generic modern round brilliants. True antique OECs have proportions all over the place, same comment as the above. It may be possible the listings you see online are what is left in antiques which are the less desirable deeper stones which faceup smaller.

I think we are talking about two different things, though. I am comparing well cut stones to very well cut stones. I am not talking about shallow stones that we generally don't recommend here (except maybe one person).

I think we both may agree it is case specific and tough to generalize. My comments are not subjective, my comparison is speciality branded(cut for brilliance) versus generic, not a subjective overall term like "well cut" versus "very well cut". That confuses the issue and makes it difficult to draw any conclusions.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Most of .... speciality cuts face up LARGER than their generic or antique counterparts, in spite of things I have seen posted to the contrary. So don't worry, your diamond likely faces up well compared to a generic asscher!

I don't believe that to be true. Most speciality cuts are based in close proximity to round brilliant Tolkowsky proportions.
A round's depth is calculated based on its diameter or diagonal which is longer than either its length or width if it was a square whereas in a fancy its usually the length of the shorter side used for depth calculations.

All of this to say that most designs based on Tolk proportions are deeper than most (modern cushions, generic cut cornered squares, ovals, marquise, pears). For example all of the H&A (cushions, squares and cut cornered squares) have a 70%+ depth using the normal depth convention for fancy shapes calculation.

To get optimal brilliance and reflection of high angle light you need considerable crown height and a matching pavilion and that translates to deeper stones that faceup smaller.

This is exactly the point I am trying to make, with bit more explanation.
I am NOT suggesting there's anything wrong with cutting to the standards that bring Red into the ASET.
From the perspective of AGSL lighting parameters, such stones will be more brilliant.
BUT, that does not necessarily mean that other cutting styles- with more green and white in ASET are badly cut.
If someone has seen both and agrees with AGSL conclusions of brilliance in Fancy Shapes, by all means- trade some spread for Red in the ASET
From real life observations the fact is that many people will perceive the spreadier stone as more brilliant- even if it's ASET has less red.
The discussion here is NEVER framed that way.
In PS speak, cut is king and anyone who does not drink AGSL Kool Aid is a heretic.
If you want spread you hate great cut.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
I KNOW great cut. I was trained at the Harry Winston school from 1976-1979- and it was a long time ago, many things have changed.
But not my love for beautifully cut diamonds.

 

[oldminer]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Just wanted to confirm I am around and still frequently reading the forum posts. So many good answers have been given in the archives that re-posting is not an efficient way for the most part. Searching in the archived responses is going to be an invaluable asset of Pricescope and ought to be encouraged.

Once in a while, I see a relatively fresh post with a question that motivates me sufficiently to respond. It isn't the fault of anyone or any of the "rules", but it just happens less often than years ago. I am as motivated as ever, but Pricescope has done an excellent job of making a diamond purchase far less fearful or worrisome than when it was a new concept. Keep on asking questions. When we see something new, a hot topic, or of importance to lots of people, I am sure the professionals will respond along with the prosumers.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Most of .... speciality cuts face up LARGER than their generic or antique counterparts, in spite of things I have seen posted to the contrary. So don't worry, your diamond likely faces up well compared to a generic asscher!

I don't believe that to be true. Most speciality cuts are based in close proximity to round brilliant Tolkowsky proportions.
A round's depth is calculated based on its diameter or diagonal which is longer than either its length or width if it was a square whereas in a fancy its usually the length of the shorter side used for depth calculations.

All of this to say that most designs based on Tolk proportions are deeper than most (modern cushions, generic cut cornered squares, ovals, marquise, pears). For example all of the H&A (cushions, squares and cut cornered squares) have a 70%+ depth using the normal depth convention for fancy shapes calculation.

To get optimal brilliance and reflection of high angle light you need considerable crown height and a matching pavilion and that translates to deeper stones that faceup smaller.

The specialty cuts I was referring to are stones like the Octavia for which I already provided diameter comparisons above. They generally face up larger than generic well cut asschers. AVCs by Good Old Gold are also cut to have ideal light performance and face up larger than many antique cushions and some other newly cut antique style cushions for the same weight. I think it is true in many cases of AVR's versus OECs, but not always. Many old stones out there are too deep. I compare diameter of stones all the time when recommending diamonds for other people.

I think we are talking about two different things, though. I am comparing well cut stones to very well cut stones. I am not talking about shallow stones that we generally don't recommend here (except maybe one person).

HI DS- thank you for introducing specific brands into the discussion.
As I already mentioned, Octavia will be smaller than a well cut Asscher cut to different proportions- I agree that Octavia will compare favorably on spread with randomly selected generic Asscher cuts. But given the price of Octavia, consumers would not be forced to choose between Octavia and generic- they could afford to buy a hand picked Asscher that will have better spread.
If I'm not mistaken Karl will see this - if he has another viewpoint, he's more than welcome to express it, right?
Then we come to specific branded Old Mine Brilliant cuts- and I have seen the brand you refer to.
When I have Yoram cut for us, I'm interested in other aspects besides an AGSL 0 LP grade. There are many other newly cut OMB's that face up comparably in terms of spread to the brand you mention- some cut by Yoram- but there are others as well. The state of the art in modern OMB cutting was, in my opinion, invented by Yoram F.
He's the master in that regard. And some others have followed his lead, expanding the selection for consumers in the modern cut OMB market- this is good for everyone, yes?
We've also found some genuine antique stones that have very good spread for the weight.

DS- - I ask earnestly, please open you r mind to new ideas about cut.
I am (currently) the lone voice speaking about spread, and how it relates to well cut diamonds. The lone voice HERE- and hopefully that will change.
But I speak to the very top cutters and sellers in this industry daily- I am not alone in considering spread an important component in the recipe for a well cut diamond.