What does Tiffany do with upgraded diamonds?

[Kim&George]

Hello all. I''m new here and have been enjoying learning from you all. I searched the forum for my question, but didn''t see it anywhere so here it is:

My husband and I were in Tiffany & Co. this past weekend looking at upgrading my ring. I was curious as to what they do with diamonds that are traded in and so asked the woman helping us. She told us that they are ground down into industrial diamonds. Does anyone know if this is true? My husband and I found it a little hard to believe, but I wouldn''t think they''d resell "used" diamonds as new, either.

 

[Mara]

well if the 'used' diamond was in fine condition, why wouldn't they resell it? there is no guarantee when you buy a diamond, any diamond, that it was not owned before. maybe more were than we really know. maybe some were recut from antiques into round brilliants. the past history of diamonds is nebulous at best.

 

[Magnum]

Admittedly, this is just speculation, but I hightly doubt that they grind the diamonds down into industrial diamonds, as that would probably be a waste of money. There's a small chance that they resell them themselves, but if I had to put money on it, Tiffany's gives the impression of being pretty picky about which diamonds they sell, so most, if not all, trade-in diamonds are probably sold to a different distributor who can resell them, or maybe recut so that they meet Tiffany's standards. That would be my guess.

 

[nicknomo]

Hrmm, well they might choose to keep the supply of tiffany's diamonds low... They seem to be a rarity, so actually eliminating the number of tiffany diamonds out there seems like it is a viable alternative.

As far as reselling a "used" diamond, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Diamonds are by no means new. They have been around for millions of years under more intense pressures and temperatures than you will get on a persons finger. Diamonds are a 10 on the hardness scale, so accidentally chipping it isn't easy to do. Most likely a diamond worn on someone's finger for 15 years shouldn't be different than when it was sold. It doesn't decay or fall apart on it's own.

If a diamond is regraded, and it doesn't have any chips, knicks or scuffs on the surface it's probably going back for resale in most places without any discounting. A diamond is one thing where buying used is no worse than buying new. As long as the certificate is up to date, it is what it is.

 

[hoorray]

they must resell them. Whether they resell them as new in their stores or simple sell them in the wholesale market, they still have way too much value to put them into industrial uses.

 

[Nicrez]

NO WAY they grind them up. Bort and ground diamonds are NO WHERE NEAR as expensive as a gem already cut and polished.




If the stone was initially theirs, they definately resell it, either within their store 9without tell you( or they sell it to a secondary distributor.




If it wasn't their stone, they may try to cut it to specifications to MAKE it a TIFFANY stone, or just ditch it entirely and resell it whole (no grounding of it done).




I suppose they tell you that to make their stones look so much more precious, but with a company that learned to appeal their very exclusive name to the $500 or less jewelery market the way they have, that grinding of perfectly good stones would be completely abberant from their business model, and have investors FUMING....




My guess is they could even sell it cheaply to insurance comapnies for replacement stones, or lower end jewelery stores they are affiliated with.

 

[aneelcon]

I was just in Tiffany's in Hawai'i and the sales guys was very nice to us...even though we were in shorts and slippers looking at a 70k lucida diamond. Anyways, I asked him tons of questions and one of them included the upgrade question. He said that they resell the diamond but it won't be in a tiffany store. He doesn't exactly know what store but that he was positive it won't make it back in Tiffany's display cases. He seemed pretty knowledgeable and has been working with the company a lot. He also said that Hawai'i Tiffany & co is very busy because of the decreased tax rate. He gets a lot of people from the mainland who would rather buy a diamond there because of the savings in tax. anyways, I'm wandering. but I think I answered your question. good luck with the upgrade. what are you upgrading to?

 

[Terri-Jo]

I bet that some of the rings that signedpieces sells are upgrades.

 

[foundnemo]

Hahaha...I was just thinking about Signedpieces!

 

[Kim&George]

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts on this. My husband and I both found it really hard to believe they'd actually grind these diamonds up. I think it is much more likely they sell the diamonds to other stores or distributors. It would be interesting to see what a different salesperson at a different store might have to say. We were at the Portland, Oregon store.

I'm not sure if I'll really upgrade as I love the ring I have -- it's beautiful and I'm sentimentally attached to it! We were more looking for fun. When my husband bought the ring for me one of the big selling points for him was that it could be upgraded and they'd give him the full value he paid for it. When we talked to them about this over the weekend, though, the story had changed a little bit. They said it would have to be sent to NY to be appraised and then a value would be assigned from that. My husband was a little irritated that that wasn't what he was told when he bought it (I've read similar stories here on these boards!). Overall, though, we've been pretty happy with our experiences with Tiffany.

 

[eyesoftexas]

OK Here is the actual real story. The diamonds are examined for chips, wear and anything else that would be caught when examining under a microscope. If they are in absolute imaculate condition they are reset (but typically repolished). If not then they are repolished/recut to make them back into the precise parameters needed. You would be shocked at how many Lucidas come back only to have dings/chips in them. If it is beyond repair they do not sell the patent cut as is. They can recut it to an altered shape and sell it that way. This is rare. You wont find Lucidas as is being sold in the wholesale market.

 

[eyesoftexas]

As far as Tiffanys upgrade policy. Unless your diamond has a lot of chips in it it is in Tiffany's best interst to gve you the full value of the ring because you must spend double this amount on a new one. If your ring is worth $15k then you must buy a $30K ring which equals another $15K profit. If they grade the diamond lower then their profit on the sale will go down.

 

[foundnemo]

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On 7/1/2004 12:42:01 AM eyesoftexas wrote:

As far as Tiffanys upgrade policy. Unless your diamond has a lot of chips in it it is in Tiffany's best interst to gve you the full value of the ring because you must spend double this amount on a new one. If your ring is worth $15k then you must buy a $30K ring which equals another $15K profit. If they grade the diamond lower then their profit on the sale will go down.----------------

Tiffany will not give you the full value of the ring when upgrading, I believe they deduct a percentage for some kind of service charge.

 

[finerthings]

I called the NY office and they told me that they take back the old diamond, appraise the diamond and will give you 90% of what you originally paid if it is in mint condition. The upgrade does not have to be double the cost, it just has to be more than the refund. I don't know what they do with the diamond, I didn't ask that question.

 

[kevinng]

What do they do with the diamonds? Could some of the diamonds we find online ex-Tiffany's? Perhaps that's why there are so many ideal cuts online?

 

[Mara]

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On 7/1/2004 12:53:27 PM kevinng wrote:





What do they do with the diamonds? Could some of the diamonds we find online ex-Tiffany's? Perhaps that's why there are so many ideal cuts online?

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Hehe who says Tiffany's diamonds are 'ideal'? They don't publish information on their cut specs...nor scope images or any angle information when you buy a diamond. They sell cut by nebulous terms at best.

Sure they probably get some great stones in, but be careful how you use the term ideal...there are not that many true excellent cuts online. Just having a table and depth that look nice do not an ideal cut make!

 

[CaptAubrey]

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On 7/1/2004 12:56:06 PM Mara wrote:

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On 7/1/2004 12:53:27 PM kevinng wrote:





What do they do with the diamonds? Could some of the diamonds we find online ex-Tiffany's? Perhaps that's why there are so many ideal cuts online?

----------------

Hehe who says Tiffany's diamonds are 'ideal'? They don't publish information on their cut specs...nor scope images or any angle information when you buy a diamond. They sell cut by nebulous terms at best.

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well, i know who a couple of their suppliers are, and both are manufacturers who specialize in ideal cuts.

 

[kevinng]

Yes, I'm aware that there are many badly cut stones online as well. However, I have seen many truly excellent stones... at least through the H&A scope, idealscope, and the numbers are within AGA's grade 1a. Many of them have truly very good idealscope images, complete with the slight light leakage at the edge (near the girdle) to improve contrast. I own one of these excellent stones now. Even my local gemologist was impressed.

I'm sure Tiffany must have duds in their collection. However, with their truly high price markup, I am sure they can afford more weight loss during the cutting process and hence produce better diamond overall. But then... each diamond must be evaluated on its own merits. I'm just generalising.

With all these trade-up programs going on, and the store has a policy never to resell their stones in-house, these 'probably-better-quality' stones must be floating around somewhere in the market. Maybe they are being sold online?

Anyway, a diamond is ultimately... a diamond. We won't know where it came from. What if the the diamond came from the ring of a deceased person?

 

[eyesoftexas]

With all of the Tiffany diamonds you can request to see a Tiffany Gemological Lab Report. This is different from the Tiffany Diamond certificate you get in the mail when you buy one of their diamonds and different from the GIA report. This is Tiffany's in-house diamond grading facility. They give all of the parameters and even the grading of the precision of cut. That precision of cut is based on comparison to their master specs which are secret (but I do know the specs for the Lucidas anyways). So you CAN get all of the information prior to purchase and run the diamonds through HCA or whatever, you just have to ask for the Gem Lab report.

As far as upgrade, I think the customer service rep on the phone was misguided, you need to double the value of the diamond for the purchase. They do deduct a service fee.

 

[starfire]

I agree with Mara. I don't think Tiffany's diamonds are more likely to be ideal than any other jeweller. They might choose to sell better colour or clarity than some other stores, but that does not make their brilliant-cut diamonds necessarily superior to others.

However, because of astute marketing, they are able to command very high premiums on some diamonds which would otherwise not fetch anywhere as high elsewhere.

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

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On 7/1/2004 12:56:06 PM Mara wrote:

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Hehe who says Tiffany's diamonds are 'ideal'? They don't publish information on their cut specs...nor scope images or any angle information when you buy a diamond. They sell cut by nebulous terms at best.

Sure they probably get some great stones in, but be careful how you use the term ideal...there are not that many true excellent cuts online. Just having a table and depth that look nice do not an ideal cut make!

----------------

 

[starfire]

I agree with eyesoftexas on how such trade-in diamonds are usually dealt with, not only at Tiffany's but probably at most stores that trade-in diamonds.

Naturally, such trade-in diamonds will end up in the shop for sale again (after cleaning and reconditioning). They are after all running a business, and one cannot eat diamonds for dinner.

How do you truly know which diamond you buy at a store (which has a trade-in policy) isn't pre-loved and pre-owned? You wouldn't. But would you be comfortable wearing a diamond, which was worn by someone else for years? Would you feel comfortable, not knowing what kind of history the diamond shared with its previous owner?

We believe that diamonds are bought for sentimental reasons, and we do not encourage people to trade-in diamonds. If they are bored with their jewelry, perhaps they should consider re-setting their jewelry or buy new diamonds.

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

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On 7/1/2004 12:53:27 PM kevinng wrote:

What do they do with the diamonds? Could some of the diamonds we find online ex-Tiffany's? Perhaps that's why there are so many ideal cuts online?

----------------

 

[Mara]

my point was to go back to the same old misconception that Tiffany diamonds are the creme de la creme. They have certs of their own with more information but they don't readily publish it, you have to ask for more information on a stone. Same as with many other places. And even if you saw the specs, they may have nice numbers, but are they really that 'ideal' stone?




Many people just assume that since their diamonds carry that steep markup, they are going to be the best out there! That may not always be the case. Of course they do carry some stones with the typical ideal specs, we have seen some of them listed on here as well for advice.




As for their Lucida, it's a patented cut with relatively little "true" competition since many say that the Lucere and other stones don't look exactly the same, I'm speaking more to the round brilliants which are easier to compare.




I will say that I saw a Tiff diamond recently, a large 2c+ RB in their famous setting, and I could not see a whit of arrows in the thing, speaking to it's symmetry being only so-so...while in comparison, my stone was shooting off perfect looking arrows under their regular lighting and with no loupe. I drew my own conclusions on the quality of their cut.

 

[eyesoftexas]

symmetry is not the same as cut quality. Infact symmetry is not likely to have a big effct on the brilliance and fire unless the symmetry is so bad (well below very good). Several experts on this forum and the GIA president even stated similar remarks. So Tiffany does not focus on hearts and arrows (Neither does Cartier or Harry Winston or Bvlgari), it does not mean that their cuts are inferior and it would seem to indicate to me that if hearts and arrows were that important then they would sell them. I know people love to bash Tiffanys and it is Friday so we are allowed, but in reality they do sell awesome diamonds. Yes you may be able to find a nicer diamond on your own but that does not mean they sell junk. I will make this analogy. You can buy a brand new nissan Maxima that will kick the pants off the BMW 3 series for a lot less money, but the BMW is the BMW and still an awesome car and it has the name which is what most people strive to have - something more expensive than your neighbors (just like those canvas Luis Vuitton handbags). Most average people only know the Tiffany/cartier name and the assumption is it is special and expensive and something they will never be able to afford.
Tiffanys/Cartier/Bvlgari/Harry Winston are the creme de la creme because of what those diamonds represent - a name that the elite buy knowing that the average joe will never be able to touch them.

 

[hoorray]

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On 7/2/2004 2:44:50 PM starfire wrote:

Naturally, such trade-in diamonds will end up in the shop for sale again (after cleaning and reconditioning). They are after all running a business, and one cannot eat diamonds for dinner.

How do you truly know which diamond you buy at a store (which has a trade-in policy) isn't pre-loved and pre-owned? You wouldn't. But would you be comfortable wearing a diamond, which was worn by someone else for years? Would you feel comfortable, not knowing what kind of history the diamond shared with its previous owner?

We believe that diamonds are bought for sentimental reasons, and we do not encourage people to trade-in diamonds. If they are bored with their jewelry, perhaps they should consider re-setting their jewelry or buy new diamonds.

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Call me the odd ball. I understand that diamonds are one of earth's most indestructable creations, and are valuable. Recycling diamonds makes complete sense to me. I don't want a broken marriage's e-ring to wear, but I think the stone, stripped of it's setting, and cleaned up as necessary, is generic. It's up to us to make it sentimental. Whether it was mined and cut 20 years ago or last year doesn't make a difference to me as long as it's a beautiful diamond. Take it a step farther...look at all the people who love the old cuts and antique rings. There is something romantic in the vague history of these items. No one knows if it was a happy or sad marriage. Just the fact that there is history is intriguing.

 

[Daniela]

----------------[/quote]


Call me the odd ball. I understand that diamonds are one of earth's most indestructable creations, and are valuable. Recycling diamonds makes complete sense to me. I don't want a broken marriage's e-ring to wear, but I think the stone, stripped of it's setting, and cleaned up as necessary, is generic. It's up to us to make it sentimental. Whether it was mined and cut 20 years ago or last year doesn't make a difference to me as long as it's a beautiful diamond. Take it a step farther...look at all the people who love the old cuts and antique rings. There is something romantic in the vague history of these items. No one knows if it was a happy or sad marriage. Just the fact that there is history is intriguing. ----------------[/quote]


Lop,

I was actually thinking exactly the same thing when I was reading this post yesterday. I am so NOT supersticious, and wearing a pre-owned diamond wouldn't bother me one bit. A diamond is a diamond is a diamond, until I get sentimentally attached to it for my own reasons. I don't believe in the kind of bad luck where just because it was from a broken engagement it will have an effect on my own.

Heck, if owning a pre-owned diamond in perfect condition would save me some dollars, I would do it all day long!

People are probably going to stone me for this, but this is coming from a girl who has been wearing her wedding band around the house before she's married just because she loves to play with it so much! That's supposed to be extremely bad luck. My fiance takes it away from me every once in a while when he thinks I've been wearing it too long and that I might be getting used to it. Then the game starts all over again when it's been back in the box for a couple of days. He actually gets a kick out of it because it means that I really, really like the ring.

And in my defense, my finger is naked because my engagement ring is being sized and upgraded, so it's only fair...

 

[hoorray]

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On 7/3/2004 9:34:53 AM Daniela wrote:



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People are probably going to stone me for this, but this is coming from a girl who has been wearing her wedding band around the house before she's married just because she loves to play with it so much! That's supposed to be extremely bad luck. My fiance takes it away from me every once in a while when he thinks I've been wearing it too long and that I might be getting used to it. Then the game starts all over again when it's been back in the box for a couple of days. He actually gets a kick out of it because it means that I really, really like the ring.

And in my defense, my finger is naked because my engagement ring is being sized and upgraded, so it's only fair...----------------[/quote]


LOL Danelia, I did this also. In fact sometimes on weekends we would both wear the rings and "fake it". I'm just not superstitious.

 

[valeria101]

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On 6/30/2004 7:12:18 PM Kim&George wrote:



She told us that they are ground down into industrial diamonds.

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This would definitely certify the firm as mad

It already is out of the ordinary that they would not just refurbish the ring a bit and put it down to sale again, as seems to be the norm for returned jewelry. That they take the stone out and give it aface is enough to make this shop (yet again) sound better than most...

 

[Dancing Fire]

there is no way you can tell if a stone is recycle or the history of it. i don't think they would inscribe on the girdle something like "this stone is from a divorce"

 

[diamondfan]

I can speak from a bit of recent experience. When I got engaged about 16 years ago, my husbad''s family friend, a jeweler, helped design my ring. I was not really specific about likes and dislikes, and he gave me a 1.5 carat round in a more contemporary yellow gold setting. I was so thrilled to get engaged I did not ever think of changing it. Around our tenth anniversary, we moved throusands of miles away from where I had grown up and I was pretty down. I also started noticing everyone where I moved had platinum settings, and there were fewer RB''s. Suddenly the idea of an ugrade sounded great. I teased him that it would help me to adjust to my new home. I also discovered my stone had a laser drill mark, which REALLY upset me. We did not know lots of people in the area then, so he went into the nearest Tiffany''s and got me a beautiful emerald cut three stone ring, center stone 3.06 e/vvs2 with 1.0 carat emerald side stones, also e/vvs2, set in platinum. I LOVED it and wore it for five years. I kept my original round, setting it in a platinum micropave bezel and wearing it on a thin chain. I told him it was still close to my heart that way!! Then, I started seeing people with quite large stones, so for my 40th and our 15th, I jokingly said I wanted something massive, like 8-10 carats. He looked ill and said no way not ever. Well, three months later I am wearing my new ring...we went back to Tiffany''s and traded in, and yes, I think they re-sell to the secondary market, it does not go back in their cases. They usually give 90% of the original purchase price, used toward a ring of double the original purchase price value..I ASSURE you they do not NOT grind them up! We had a great experience and I had to promise this is IT and believe me, I never thought I would able to get him to go for it...a little humor goes a long way!

 

[Lurchie]

Diamondfan,

Welcome to Pricescope! Did you know that you''re required to post pictures of your rings?

Just kidding. No, actually I''m not.