What does a Whiteflash diamond rating of 4 actually mean ?

wf recently changed their website and the rating thing is new.  i don''t think it has anything to do with availabilty.  i do know that, just as before, any diamonds that are in house say ''item available- ready to ship'' under the price.  items that are not in house are indicated by the notation of ''contact us for availability'' instead.

Yeah, the stars denote the quality. Only ACA''s get the 5 stars, I believe. So there may be other AGS0''s that do not quite make the ACA mark which are then automatically a 4. So I would be comfortable with a 4 as long as it is in-house and is also AGS0 (or GIA Excellent, if there are any of those).

Thanks

The one I looked at was an EGL. Looks like a nice stone, 4 star rated but its not GIA unfortunately.

yeah this is one of my pet peeves about their new site. 4 to me should be ES in house only. but they don''t have it listed like that. it''s very hard to tell what''s in house vs not. you see a 4 and think oh if ACA if 5 then 4 must be GREAT. but if the stone is not even in house how do they know it''s a 4 star stone? esp an egl cert! no thanks.

Date: 10/15/2006 1:46:02 PM
Author: Mara
yeah this is one of my pet peeves about their new site. 4 to me should be ES in house only. but they don''t have it listed like that. it''s very hard to tell what''s in house vs not. you see a 4 and think oh if ACA if 5 then 4 must be GREAT. but if the stone is not even in house how do they know it''s a 4 star stone? esp an egl cert! no thanks.

 Ditto.

Hi SKR - I responded to your comments about the EGL labs on the other thread - you may want to check out my response to that as I think you and I both reached the same initial conclusion from the tutorials...  I know you are looking at a lot of $ so I want you to be careful!

Also, I copied this from a prior post of mine (about the stone that was off by two colors and two clarities)...

"It came with an EGL Israel report (I know that because after all this happened I found a thread on pricescope which tells you how to tell which EGL lab graded it).  At the time I guess we were thinking that they did not actually do the cutting/creating of the stone, only grading, and that they could not be THAT far off, especially if we purchased it from a vendor that could tell us about the stone.  For what it is worth, it was also graded as an H color, we were told to expect a good I, it appraised as a J (I looked at the master set with the appraiser myself and agreed).  We had read the section on grading labs in pricescope, and failed to realize that the study done between GIA/AGS/EGL was specifically with EGL USA.  We did not think there would be the difference between EGL USA and EGL elsewhere.  Maybe off by a color grade, maybe off by a clarity grade (but who cares if it was eyeclean), never dreamed off by two colors and two clarities."

..."I would also like to address the EGL issue, and maybe help some of those who have been here for a while to understand where those of us newbies are coming from... diamonds are new territory for most of us who come to this website.  This site is extremely informative and helpful, but to those of us who are new it is difficult to concretely grasp exactly why EGL is held in such poor esteem on this site (at least in the beginning, prior to something like this happening.)

For newbies, reading the tutorials (and having nil personal experience with EGL itself), it does not sound like EGL is that far off - actually they come across on the tutorial as maybe being a little stricter in color, although more lax in clarity - sometimes right on, sometimes off by a grade.  To me, eyeclean would have been ... eyeclean.  I would not have cared if it was a ''worse'' eyeclean, as long as it was fairly clean to the naked eye.  The I2 rating probably explains why it is so not eyeclean.  Having never purchased a diamond before, we did not gather from the tutorials that they would be an entire two grades off in both color and clarity - we got more of an impression of one grade off in maybe one or the other (just my take away from the tutorial) - I assumed as I was told that I may be getting an I color, but I thought the term eyeclean again would be eyeclean in all lightings.  This is probably why so many other newbies on this site are so befuddled at the reputation of EGL on the boards - the tutorial sort of sounds like they may be off a little (for instance the GIA/AGS/EGL study).  I don''t know if maybe the tutorial could be adjusted to try to explain a little better without pricescope getting sued for slander." 

Your concern is appreciated. I am looking at the EGL stone and hoping that it''s EGL USA and not Israel. It seems perfect otherwise. If it is USA there is no harm in getting WF to bring it in house to give me their opinion. TBH I already am 90% certain on the other stone that I liked but I just want to get another one in so I can choose between them.

Date: 10/15/2006 10:17:13 AM
Author:SKR
The definition on WF''s website of a 4 rating- ''Preferred diamonds combine best performance, craftsmanship and value for the money''.

Does being a preferred diamond mean that is is in house or that WF have seen it ? Or is it based solely on the certificate ?

Not sure if the linking option on here is working as it should...

I fear that WF''s decision to go to "stars" may have been at least in part motivated by John''s own thread...

http://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/the-terms-ideal-and-ags-ideal-t50802.html=

where the protocols for when to include the descriptor "ideal" were raised and challenged.

Seems like stars tells you less than more, but then again, maybe it''s as descriptive as they''d like to be.

Still, probably they''d like to re-evaluate their own assignations, if an EGL anything gets 4 stars.  I''ve at least heard they will not provide the same buy back policy to a diamond certed by EGL, USA or otherwise.  Also, seems like they really wouldn''t want to give anything 4 stars, sight unseen, but it''s better than they say than I...

Date: 10/15/2006 3:31:02 PM
Author: SKR
Your concern is appreciated. I am looking at the EGL stone and hoping that it''s EGL USA and not Israel. It seems perfect otherwise. If it is USA there is no harm in getting WF to bring it in house to give me their opinion. TBH I already am 90% certain on the other stone that I liked but I just want to get another one in so I can choose between them.

Good - I just wanted to make sure you were aware, as it looked like from a prior post that you drew the same conclusion as I did about EGL from the tutorials!  Hopefully it is USA, and I am sure you can rely on WF to give you an honest opinion on it.

Yes thanks. I will speak to them tomorrow - in all my dealings with them so far they have always come across as open, honest and very helpful. Good company !

Date: 10/15/2006 10:52:22 AM
Author: belle

i do know that, just as before, any diamonds that are in house say 'item available- ready to ship' under the price. items that are not in house are indicated by the notation of 'contact us for availability' instead.

This is correct.  We’ve tried to make it simple to tell what’s in house versus not (graphic attached).

Top: In-House
Bottom: Not in-house

Attachments

Avail_Contact.jpg (25.85 KiB) Viewed 68 times

Overview on WF Ratings.

In recent years labs have launched new systems and introduced grading for fancy shapes.  Increasingly, verbal descriptors imply different things in different systems.  Some may remember this thread, where pros and consumers had a valuable exchange about terminology.

http://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/the-terms-ideal-and-ags-ideal-t50802.html

We developed WF Ratings to provide an indication of quality while avoiding confusion; over a word like ‘ideal,’ for instance.

Date: 10/15/2006 1:46:02 PM
Author: Mara

yeah this is one of my pet peeves about their new site. 4 to me should be ES in house only. but they don't have it listed like that. it's very hard to tell what's in house vs not. you see a 4 and think oh if ACA if 5 then 4 must be GREAT. but if the stone is not even in house how do they know it's a 4 star stone? esp an egl cert! no thanks.

Hi Mara.  I hope the graphic in my acknowledgment to Belle answered your in-house vs. not in-house question.

Regarding labs:  The AGS and GIA are the only labs we use to grade our in-house inventory but beautiful diamonds can be graded anywhere.  Our search doesn’t penalize options because of the lab’s name.  We do describe our experience with other labs - and policies accompanying an EGL purchase - to clients.  We like for the client to make an informed decision for him/herself.  We also protect clients by bringing any diamond in-house for our own assessment before selling it.

Regarding ratings; here is text from the top of the WF ratings explanation:

“All in-house diamonds have been analyzed firsthand. Outside diamonds available to us are rated based on available information (we cannot guarantee details of outside diamonds).” 

We provide a rating for outside diamonds based on info the supplier has provided to us.  If a client is interested in that diamond we will contact the supplier, get additional details and get back to the client with a more decisive opinion.  We hope the preliminary rating is helpful and I'll reiterate that we bring any outside diamond in to be sure it meets the quality standards which were advertised.

The top rating (five stars) is not awarded unless the diamond is already in-house and has passed our strictest judgments.  Currently this is limited to ‘A Cut Above’ diamonds produced to Brian Gavin’s standards.  The four star rating applies to most in-house Expert Selection diamonds (which we ‘expertly selected’).   Four stars may also apply to outside diamonds where information the supplier provided is promising.  As per the WF ratings notes, fewer than 4 stars doesn’t necessarily mean ‘bad,’ it may mean the supplier gives limited info.

As internet commerce grows, our ratings are intended to motivate our suppliers to provide more and more information.  They are aware of the growth of e-trade and we hope they will react to this system by supplying more up-front information to support their goods; in some cases this is already happening.

We are happy to provide decisive ratings on our in-house diamonds, and hope having provisional ratings for outside diamonds is useful to shoppers.

I didn''t reread all these posts, but EGL diamonds are not part of WhiteFlash''s upgrade policy, are they?  That would be a BIG reason to only go with the stones that can be upgraded.

Date: 10/15/2006 7:45:05 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

I didn't reread all these posts, but EGL diamonds are not part of WhiteFlash's upgrade policy, are they? That would be a BIG reason to only go with the stones that can be upgraded.

This is true.  I would like to be clear that it's not because an EGL-graded diamond can’t be beautiful. 

We are a click & brick and the vast majority of our trade occurs on the internet.  Diamonds supported by an AGS or GIA report move faster on the internet.  It’s simple reality based on the reputability those labs have rightfully earned.

Here’s a hypothetical example of why EGL trade-ups would be impractical for us.

Let’s say we send a diamond to the AGS and have it graded.
We then send the same diamond to the EGL-USA for grading.
For sake of argument let's say it comes back as follows:

AGS: 0.97 ct G VS2 (Ideal Cut)
EGL: 0.97 ct F VS1 (Tolkowsky Ideal Cut)

This is hypothetical. The grades could be closer together or farther apart, but bear with me.

If we offer this diamond for sale on our site in 2 places - one with the AGS report, the other with the EGL report - for exactly the same price, I wager the G VS2 with the AGS report would sell several times over before someone took a chance on the EGL F VS1.

Remember, they are the same diamond.

It’s certainly possible to find beautiful diamonds supported by labs other than the ‘big two,' but there is more risk to buying them sight-unseen.  The AGS and GIA have earned their hard-won reputations.

By the way Ira:  I see you beat me to the link.  Good deduction.

I want a 6 star or 7 star diamond please Sir.

My Drena is fussy

(but not so fussy that she demands an 8 star)

So, is the consumer responsible for paying to have the diamond brought in to see how many stars it would get if actually viewed by someone at WF???

Date: 10/16/2006 9:24:54 PM
Author: Carlotta
So, is the consumer responsible for paying to have the diamond brought in to see how many stars it would get if actually viewed by someone at WF???

Looks to me lke they''re all "pre-starred" for you...so that WF, for any out of house diamonds, runs them through some screens, based on stated characteristics, and gives them anywhere one to four stars based on those details.

This one...

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=5623717

was just the first option pulled off of the quick search on Pricescope from WF, after accepting all the defaults.  It''s a one star.

Date: 10/15/2006 7:28:38 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 10/15/2006 1:46:02 PM
Author: Mara

yeah this is one of my pet peeves about their new site. 4 to me should be ES in house only. but they don''t have it listed like that. it''s very hard to tell what''s in house vs not. you see a 4 and think oh if ACA if 5 then 4 must be GREAT. but if the stone is not even in house how do they know it''s a 4 star stone? esp an egl cert! no thanks.

Hi Mara. I hope the graphic in my acknowledgment to Belle answered your in-house vs. not in-house question.

Regarding labs: The AGS and GIA are the only labs we use to grade our in-house inventory but beautiful diamonds can be graded anywhere. Our search doesn’t penalize options because of the lab’s name. We do describe our experience with other labs - and policies accompanying an EGL purchase - to clients. We like for the client to make an informed decision for him/herself. We also protect clients by bringing any diamond in-house for our own assessment before selling it.

Regarding ratings; here is text from the top of the WF ratings explanation:

“All in-house diamonds have been analyzed firsthand. Outside diamonds available to us are rated based on available information (we cannot guarantee details of outside diamonds).”

We provide a rating for outside diamonds based on info the supplier has provided to us. If a client is interested in that diamond we will contact the supplier, get additional details and get back to the client with a more decisive opinion. We hope the preliminary rating is helpful and I''ll reiterate that we bring any outside diamond in to be sure it meets the quality standards which were advertised.

The top rating (five stars) is not awarded unless the diamond is already in-house and has passed our strictest judgments. Currently this is limited to ‘A Cut Above’ diamonds produced to Brian Gavin’s standards. The four star rating applies to most in-house Expert Selection diamonds (which we ‘expertly selected’). Four stars may also apply to outside diamonds where information the supplier provided is promising. As per the WF ratings notes, fewer than 4 stars doesn’t necessarily mean ‘bad,’ it may mean the supplier gives limited info.

As internet commerce grows, our ratings are intended to motivate our suppliers to provide more and more information. They are aware of the growth of e-trade and we hope they will react to this system by supplying more up-front information to support their goods; in some cases this is already happening.

We are happy to provide decisive ratings on our in-house diamonds, and hope having provisional ratings for outside diamonds is useful to shoppers.

John, I agree that beautiful diamonds can be graded anywhere, but, I feel like I have to say this... if your search does not penalize based on EGL, the sales people at WF will refuse to supply EGL reports when requested - at least that was the case for us a few months ago.  Back in July, when we were first looking, we requested several reports on diamonds that were generally very similar on paper, but that we wanted more info on.  We were aware that the EGL was not upgradable from the disclaimer on the WF website, but no where on the website did it actually say that WF would not sell or give info on EGL graded stones (actually specifically disclaiming that EGL was not upgradable made it sound like WF would sell them, just not upgrade!)

Using a cut chart that we had, we had selected stones with good depth and table sizes, but wanted the angles which were not on the website (at that time being new we did not know that EGL did not supply angles, but height percentages).  These were the two responses received from the WF sales department...


"Thank you for the several inquiries you made with Whiteflash.  I
appreciate  your interest.  At this time I wanted to acknowledge that we did
receive your e-mails.  I am happy to request information to assist you
in narrowing your selection.

In wanting to consult you and assist in locating the best selection
what is most important to you?  The actual size, the color or clarity?  I
would like to narrow the selection to the finest 3, although I do not
recommend EGL.  Our database includes in house and virtual selections,
not in house.  This causes all diamonds include EGL diamonds to be
listed in our database. 

I am very happy to assist in any way I can.  Is there by chance another
way to communicate.  Perhaps a number I could call.

I look forward to serving you and providing certificates of the best."



I responded that we had selected all of them based on color, clarity, carat, price, and initial data that was available.  That we wanted the reports so that we could decide if we wanted to pursue them, and that we would have an appraiser check out any stone that we got.


I received the below response, and never did get to view the reports...


"I did receive your email and see that you have an appraiser which we
endorse.  We want you to be confident in your purchase.

After reviewing the selections you are considering, each of the
diamonds were EGL graded diamonds that were SI1 or SI2.  As I mentioned in my
previous e-mail, Whiteflash does not prefer EGL due to their loose
grading system.  Time and experience have proven that such SI diamonds are
usually  very visually included.  I will have to graciously decline
pursuing the diamonds.

If you allow, I will be happy to search for diamonds which will also
have ideal parameters and be more visually appealing.  Here are two I
suggest:"


I have to say, at that time, being relatively new to buying diamonds at the time (and not understanding the EGL thing), that was a real turn off, and I suspect when the WF sales department replies to others like this, it is probably turning off a lot of other potential customers.  Does it hurt to just give the report requested?!  That was all we were asking for at the time!  We wanted to make a decision ourselves if we wanted to pursue a diamond, and were just looking for more data at that time.  It felt to a us at the time, that WF was saying ''we don''t want your business''.  And, the first email did not really educate as to why WF did not like EGL just "I do not recommend EGL"  (the second email references that she said in the first that she had said that EGL had a loose grading system, but as you can see this was not actually mentioned). 

From a sales standpoint, it would probably be better just to give a copy of the reports that the person requests when clicking on the ''request report'' link.  Then, if the person wanted to further pursue one of the diamonds, THEN educate the person about experiences with EGL, bring up the concerns for inclusions, eyecleanliness, etc., instead of outright refusing to provide the info (also the EGL reports requested could have been EGL USA which has a bit better reputation - at least look to see if they are EGL USA v. EGL elsewhere!).  Doing it this way you have established a semi-relationship and the consumer likely would want to know the salespersons concerns, as opposed to just getting blocked from the get-go.  The way it was done does not allow the consumer a chance to even make an ''informed decision'', as the info is never available that way.  It also does not really educate the consumer as to why EGL is not preferred by WF.

Perhaps a link on the WF website re: experiences with EGL?  That may make it easier for newbies who do not understand when they get an email back like that. 

I am trying to give you a perspective from a consumer standpoint, and hope that this helps - I know WF is very well respected, and John you have supplied an enormous amount of valuable knowledge yourself (not to mention being very charismatic!).  I took WF off my ''do not like'' list (and added to my ''respected vendors'' list!) when I found this forum and became better educated - those were my thoughts however when I was new and I want you to know that WF may be inadvertently turning off potential customers who do not understand WHY WF will not give them an EGL report as requested.  We now understand EGL/in house/out of house, etc, etc.  But we all have to start learning somewhere, and in the diamond business you are generally working with a large proportion of customers with little knowledge on the topic who are learning, and may not understand!

Sorry for the thread jack, and sorry so long winded!

Great post :)

...also, not a thread jack.

JA does offer virtual options, and does not offer EGL anything...at least as an obvious option to choose from.

Sounds like downgrading from 4 stars would be more descriptive, if not less crazymaking.

Date: 10/15/2006 8:04:02 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Here’s a hypothetical example of why EGL trade-ups would be impractical for us.

Let’s say we send a diamond to the AGS and have it graded.
We then send the same diamond to the EGL-USA for grading.

the real reason this is hypothetical is that you wouldn''t do this...which is also your point.

Date: 10/17/2006 12:57:40 PM
Author: :)

John, I agree that beautiful diamonds can be graded anywhere, but, I feel like I have to say this... if your search does not penalize based on EGL, the sales people at WF will refuse to supply EGL reports when requested - at least that was the case for us a few months ago. Back in July, when we were first looking, we requested several reports on diamonds that were generally very similar on paper, but that we wanted more info on. We were aware that the EGL was not upgradable from the disclaimer on the WF website, but no where on the website did it actually say that WF would not sell or give info on EGL graded stones (actually specifically disclaiming that EGL was not upgradable made it sound like WF would sell them, just not upgrade!)

Using a cut chart that we had, we had selected stones with good depth and table sizes, but wanted the angles which were not on the website (at that time being new we did not know that EGL did not supply angles, but height percentages). These were the two responses received from the WF sales department...

'Thank you for the several inquiries you made with Whiteflash. I
appreciate your interest. At this time I wanted to acknowledge that we did
receive your e-mails. I am happy to request information to assist you
in narrowing your selection.

In wanting to consult you and assist in locating the best selection
what is most important to you? The actual size, the color or clarity? I
would like to narrow the selection to the finest 3, although I do not
recommend EGL. Our database includes in house and virtual selections,
not in house. This causes all diamonds include EGL diamonds to be
listed in our database.

I am very happy to assist in any way I can. Is there by chance another
way to communicate. Perhaps a number I could call.

I look forward to serving you and providing certificates of the best.'

I responded that we had selected all of them based on color, clarity, carat, price, and initial data that was available. That we wanted the reports so that we could decide if we wanted to pursue them, and that we would have an appraiser check out any stone that we got.

I received the below response, and never did get to view the reports...

'I did receive your email and see that you have an appraiser which we
endorse. We want you to be confident in your purchase.

After reviewing the selections you are considering, each of the
diamonds were EGL graded diamonds that were SI1 or SI2. As I mentioned in my
previous e-mail, Whiteflash does not prefer EGL due to their loose
grading system. Time and experience have proven that such SI diamonds are
usually very visually included. I will have to graciously decline
pursuing the diamonds.

If you allow, I will be happy to search for diamonds which will also
have ideal parameters and be more visually appealing. Here are two I
suggest:'

I have to say, at that time, being relatively new to buying diamonds at the time (and not understanding the EGL thing), that was a real turn off, and I suspect when the WF sales department replies to others like this, it is probably turning off a lot of other potential customers. Does it hurt to just give the report requested?! That was all we were asking for at the time! We wanted to make a decision ourselves if we wanted to pursue a diamond, and were just looking for more data at that time. It felt to a us at the time, that WF was saying 'we don't want your business'. And, the first email did not really educate as to why WF did not like EGL just 'I do not recommend EGL' (the second email references that she said in the first that she had said that EGL had a loose grading system, but as you can see this was not actually mentioned).

From a sales standpoint, it would probably be better just to give a copy of the reports that the person requests when clicking on the 'request report' link. Then, if the person wanted to further pursue one of the diamonds, THEN educate the person about experiences with EGL, bring up the concerns for inclusions, eyecleanliness, etc., instead of outright refusing to provide the info (also the EGL reports requested could have been EGL USA which has a bit better reputation - at least look to see if they are EGL USA v. EGL elsewhere!). Doing it this way you have established a semi-relationship and the consumer likely would want to know the salespersons concerns, as opposed to just getting blocked from the get-go. The way it was done does not allow the consumer a chance to even make an 'informed decision', as the info is never available that way. It also does not really educate the consumer as to why EGL is not preferred by WF.

Perhaps a link on the WF website re: experiences with EGL? That may make it easier for newbies who do not understand when they get an email back like that.

I am trying to give you a perspective from a consumer standpoint, and hope that this helps - I know WF is very well respected, and John you have supplied an enormous amount of valuable knowledge yourself (not to mention being very charismatic!). I took WF off my 'do not like' list (and added to my 'respected vendors' list!) when I found this forum and became better educated - those were my thoughts however when I was new and I want you to know that WF may be inadvertently turning off potential customers who do not understand WHY WF will not give them an EGL report as requested. We now understand EGL/in house/out of house, etc, etc. But we all have to start learning somewhere, and in the diamond business you are generally working with a large proportion of customers with little knowledge on the topic who are learning, and may not understand!

Sorry for the thread jack, and sorry so long winded!

Thank you for the well-ordered perspective - and the kind comments. 

First, please accept our sincere apologies that the EGL options were not pursued to your satisfaction.

We do sell EGL-graded diamonds, with restrictions, but there are also instances where we’re not comfortable supporting a particular stone.  Some suppliers cannot provide C/P angles or describe inclusions.  These obstacles or other flags may have been raised in your case.  Regardless, the explanation you received wasn't sufficient.  I think your suggestion for providing more education to inquiring clients about different labs & standards is a good one.  We have several articles on this topic in our education section which could easily be linked for the customer.

For the record, I assure you the salesperson intended to act in your best interests.  We try to balance global perspective (like not discriminating against a lab out-of-hand) with appropriate counseling and caution.  Some of our experienced salespeople voice stronger feelings about the inconsistency of EGL than others.  If we do pass on selling a diamond, EGL or otherwise, it’s possible to take the info to someone who will be comfortable dealing it.  There are cases where we’ve put clients in touch with other sellers to source something outside of our comfort zone. 

We’re not a company filling orders for widgets:  This stuff is complex.  We try to use our expertise and resources to locate what can be supported as the best balance of value and quality for clients.

Regarding WF Ratings:  Some EGL diamonds may get a favorable mark initially due to pricing.  Although we may not openly endorse these selections as a company our search engine will still identify them for browsers seeking the big picture.  There are people who have only a few thousand dollars to spend but are seeking as much ‘bang for the buck’ as possible.

: ) you’ve been helpful in many ways.  I’m glad you have come to understand more about the trade and we’re thankful for your input here.

Date: 10/17/2006 4:58:48 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Thank you for the well-ordered perspective - and the kind comments.

First, please accept our sincere apologies that the EGL options were not pursued to your satisfaction.

We do sell EGL-graded diamonds, with restrictions, but there are also instances where we’re not comfortable supporting a particular stone. Some suppliers cannot provide C/P angles or describe inclusions. These obstacles or other flags may have been raised in your case. Regardless, the explanation you received wasn''t sufficient. I think your suggestion for providing more education to inquiring clients about different labs & standards is a good one. We have several articles on this topic in our education section which could easily be linked for the customer.

For the record, I assure you the salesperson intended to act in your best interests. We try to balance global perspective (like not discriminating against a lab out-of-hand) with appropriate counseling and caution. Some of our experienced salespeople voice stronger feelings about the inconsistency of EGL than others. If we do pass on selling a diamond, EGL or otherwise, it’s possible to take the info to someone who will be comfortable dealing it. There are cases where we’ve put clients in touch with other sellers to source something outside of our comfort zone.

We’re not a company filling orders for widgets: This stuff is complex. We try to use our expertise and resources to locate what can be supported as the best balance of value and quality for clients.

Regarding WF Ratings: Some EGL diamonds may get a favorable mark initially due to pricing. Although we may not openly endorse these selections as a company our search engine will still identify them for browsers seeking the big picture. There are people who have only a few thousand dollars to spend but are seeking as much ‘bang for the buck’ as possible.

: ) you’ve been helpful in many ways. I’m glad you have come to understand more about the trade and we’re thankful for your input here.

Thanks John - I was hoping you would realize I wasn''t trying to be offensive and meant to be constructive - I do completely understand her feelings/comments now - just at the time, with where I was with my knowledge base (or lack thereof!!), I was totally confused.  Then she gave a link to these smaller stones and I was like ''this isn''t what we were looking for!!!'' LOL!

I just wanted to make sure that you guys are aware that when people don''t know much it kinda scares them away.  I do (now) know that WF values quality and that this was her goal and I appreciate that - I think your idea is great to use the educational links as it would make it far easier for the salespeople responding to comments not to have to retype the same thing over and over! 

I am also glad to know that you guys WOULDN"T sell a stone you weren''t comfortable with - that inspires great confidence knowing that quality is assured.  Not everyone is willing to say no to a sale!  Buying something this expensive over the internet is scary (at least when first considering it).  I certainly would not want a stone that I would need to be referred to someone else to buy! (and I am certainly not in the market for a widget!!)  I appreciate the expertise that you and the salespeople at WF have, along with the expertise found from so many all across this forum.  It is so fascinating how a tiny tweak in a angle can totally change the appearance of a stone!

I think a little education for the consumer will go a LONG way when explaining/declining to pursue a stone (Esp if the salesperson can mention that the angles are off and the stone will not perform, or the stone is horribly included.. some type of reason!).  That would have really helped in our case, and I definitely suspect will help with any other new consumers that you have!