shape
carat
color
clarity

too well-priced H&A?

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

jennalyns

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
266

Can someone please explain to me why this hearts and arrows diamond is lower priced than the same size, color, clarity "good" cut one, from the same vendor? I was told both stones are eye-clean. is the price on the H&A too good to be true? Why would the less-well-cut stone be more expensive??


Item Code AGS-5508207
Shape A Cut Above H&A
Carat 0.33 Color H Clarity SI1
Measurements 4.47-4.49X2.72 Table % 57
Depth % 60.6 Polish Ideal Symmetry Ideal
Fluorescence Negligible
Girdle Medium to Slightly thick Faceted Culet Pointed Certificate AGS
Price $555.00
Item Code 2706613
Shape Round
Carat 0.33 Color H Clarity SI1
Measurements 4.41-4.38X2.75 Table % 59
Depth % 62.6 Polish Good Symmetry Good
Girdle M-STK Culet Small Certificate EGL
Fluorescence No
Price $693.00

Another question about clarity- does anyone have a SI1 stone that you can see the inclusions with the naked eye? i''m really worried about that. what exactly does "eye-clean" mean?? would I be safer going with this stone:


Item Code AGS-5508209
Shape A Cut Above H&A
Carat 0.328
Color H
Clarity VS2 Measurements 4.48-4.50X2.73
Table % 55 Depth % 60.9
Polish Ideal
Symmetry Ideal
Girdle Thin Faceted
Culet Pointed Fluorescence Negligible
Certificate AGS
Price $605.00

The first one (the $555 one) was recommended to me, over the third one (the H color VS2)... It''s scary to do this without being able to see the stones!! Any recommendations, based on the numbers?? I''m leaning towards the first one, but want to make sure the price isn''t too good to be true. :) thanks!!!

 

jennalyns

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
266
btw i''m scared of this whole buying online sight-unseen thing, so any reassurance that I won''t end up with an unpretty stone would be great.
41.gif
i''m working with whiteflash.com, so far.
 

valeria101

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
Messages
15,809

"A cut above" (ACA) is a brand of H&A ideals.... diamonds that were cut to obtain a range of optical effects (like spectacles are!) that are considered best by a range of industry standards. There is a premium for this precise cutting, as there is a premium for color and clarity.


Prices are very often not consistent. These are just from the same seller, try to compare a few shops and there is no way to relate the last $100 price difference to any meaningful quality specs.



The last stone sounds nicest to me: VS is 'playing safest' for $50, and everything else sounds as good as they get.

Does this mean your ring is "clear" to accomodate the size of these ?

1.gif

 

jennalyns

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
266
Yep, well, I decided to stay with the same size stone so I don''t have to modify the ring. :) I am siding with you on the VS thing, for that price difference I think it would be worth it. I like the idea of the cut above, because of the hearts mainly. :) My fiance wants to look in Korea (we''re going in 2 weeks for thanksgiving) but I have a feeling they''re going to be much more expensive there. That, and I don''t know if I can wait that long!!! ;-) i''m so impatient. :)
 

noobie

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
1,318
Date: 11/10/2004 5:45:16 AM
Author: jennalyns
My fiance wants to look in Korea (we''re going in 2 weeks for thanksgiving)

No offense, but why would you ever want to do that? What happens if you need to return it or work out a customer service issue or want to upgrade in the future?


WF and many other vendors will refund your money if you don''t like it, no questions asked. The stones you picked look very nice. If Brian recommended one over the other, I would go with that one. You could always have them send you both and send back the one the like least.

 

fortheloveofdiamonds

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 8, 2004
Messages
1,279

Hi Jennalyns,


My husband bought me my first ring in Itaewon. The rings there are cheaper. However, buyer beware. They don''t have good quality diamonds and often misrepresent them. The diamond that I chose for my engagement ring was small, I thought that anything bigger would just get in the way (I have since changed my mind :))!. Anyhow, back then, I knew nothing about diamonds except the 4Cs and nothing much more than that. So I got a F VVS1 stone...well, it is certainly not a VVS1 stone because I can see three dark inclusions in the diamond and to add injury the diamond is a dud. I love it because my husband bought it for me! but buyer beware!

 

glitterata

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
3,916
The size--4.5 mm in diameter--is small enough that you probably don't have to worry about seeing inclusions in an SI1, unless you have VERY good eyesight.
 

noobie

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
1,318
Date: 11/10/2004 9:42
6.gif
4 AM
Author: fortheloveofdiamonds

My husband bought me my first ring in Itaewon.

Ahh, good old Itaewon. Where you need to assume everything is fake unless proven otherwise. Got suckered in to buying a custom made suit there once. Tailoring was pretty good, but the "British" fabric was crap. Only jewelry I bought (other than the fake Rolex that people asked for) were a few loose amythests for about $20. My wife thumbed her nose at them until our jeweler said they weren''t that bad.

 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357

My stab in the dark is that they got the second stone at a higher price, so the markup is higher.


Whiteflash is very trustworthy, and they have a money-back guarantee, so I wouldn''t have qualms purchasing from them.


Unless you''re a diamond expert, I wouldn''t even attempt to buy anything overseas...

 

LesleyH

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 28, 2000
Messages
506

Hest:


Item Code 2706613
Shape Round
Carat 0.33 Color H Clarity SI1
Measurements 4.41-4.38X2.75 Table % 59
Depth % 62.6 Polish Good Symmetry Good
Girdle M-STK Culet Small Certificate EGL
Fluorescence No
Price $693.00

This stone is not in our inventory and our automatic price converter gave it the listed price - which in this case is higher than an A CUT ABOVE!!! Stone 2 is definitely NOT of the same quality as an A CUT ABOVE.



LesleyH


www.whiteflash.com

 

jennalyns

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
266

Lesley- thanks for the clarification. i thought the numbers looked different, but as a newbie I didn''t really know why. :) what does that mean, that the stone''s not in your inventory? the numbers came from the site... i''m confused.

19.gif


Of the stones I''m looking at, Denise and Brian the cutter are recommending the cheapest one, the H color SI1. If you all think that I should go with their recommendation, that''s what I''ll do. Hey, if it''s the prettiest one for the lowest price, can''t lose there, right?


All, the reason he wants to look in korea is HE''S half-korean.... i''m not offended at all by the comments... I realize that Korea isn''t exactly the country most Americans look to for high quality, but because he''s lived there a lot of his life he still gets offended when people automatically assume their stuff is fake. actually, when you get out of the tourist districts, most korean goods are very high quality (and much more expensive!). We''re not going to look in Itaewon, i know better than that, because I know that they tell you things are what they aren''t.
2.gif
i once bought a purse in Itaewon and the guy pulled out a bag of leather high-end name brand tags, and asked what designer I wanted the purse to be! I didn''t end up picking a tag since none of them matched and i''m not really name brand-y. it was pretty funny, though. i do think that *really* high quality diamonds in korea will be much more expensive than online or even in the states, similar to japanese prices, but he just wants to look to ease his own mind, since he knows that in Koreans usually buy higher quality diamonds (for themselves, not the ones that get sold to tourists by the bases...). We''ll most likely end up going with the whiteflash stone though.


He''s not fully convinced that I should change the stone I have, because he didn''t see the spots... They gave him a loupe at the store, and he didn''t see anything, but he didn''t know what to look for either. I can definitely see them with my eyes, does that mean I''m crazy, or I just have better vision than him?

2.gif
It IS set in such a way that in some light, you can''t see the spots- it''s in the sunlight or bright overhead light, which obviously he didn''t see it in. the stone was sold to him (at the mall) as an SI2, but the Japanese jeweler says it''s a borderline I1-I2... no papers though. it it really that subjective, or do the mall stores basically not know what they''re talking about?
2.gif
I knew that it would be a a low clarity stone, I just fell in love with the setting, which is absolutely perfect and exactly what I wanted, and I knew that if I upgraded the stone through the mall store then it would be a lot more expensive. if this stone turns out to be really sparkly and clear then I will be happy!







 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 93px">Date: 11/10/2004 8:13:27 PM
Author: jennalyns

I realize that Korea isn''t exactly the country most Americans look to for high quality, but because he''s lived there a lot of his life he still gets offended when people automatically assume their stuff is fake.


It has nothing to do with high quality or low quality, actually. I wouldn''t send someone who didn''t know what they were doing to the diamond district in NYC. Diamonds are expensive, and only a teeny percentage are cut to exacting standards. Many, many jewelers sell inferior diamonds at inflated prices.


I''m Chinese, full Chinese, and I''ve shopped for jewelry in Hong Kong---which has a similar reputation to South Korea. My born and bred Hong Kong friends would never buy anything from any jewelry store whose reputation wasn''t stamped and verified by a dozen knowledgable relatives. It''s just prudent shopping. You understand; guys are just so silly sometimes when it comes to shopping. We gals know that personal feelings should never be allowed to enter into serious shopping!

31.gif

 

jennalyns

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
266

"It has nothing to do with high quality or low quality, actually. I wouldn't send someone who didn't know what they were doing to the diamond district in NYC. Diamonds are expensive, and only a teeny percentage are cut to exacting standards. Many, many jewelers sell inferior diamonds at inflated prices."



Good point. That's how my fiance got the I1 stone (which is still pretty but I know too much after reading these boards!!), because he didn't really know what to look for, and neither did I at the time... Hest, you echoed my thoughts exactly about the shopping thing! It's much harder to be objective for guys, huh?

2.gif

 

MaryReed

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
3
For the love of diamonds,

Hey There! My boyfriend and I are living in Seoul and we were in Itaewon today looking at rings....and like you the girl quoted us a nice .8 carat ring, VVS1, colour F. The price was half of what they were back home and we were a little scared that it was too good to be true. So I did an internet search when I got home and found your postings....thank gooddess. Neither one of us is a diamond expert, we know the 4C's but thats it. We hoped that we could get a good deal here in Korea, but we really do not know where to go. What would you suggest? Or do you think the legitimate stuff would be comparable to North America anyways?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.
 

jennalyns

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
266
MaryReed, Hi! After all my research in the past month, I''m pretty sure diamonds in Korea that are in the reputable places will be as expensive as the states, if not more... that, and if you buy from the states you''ll know exactly what you''re getting if you get certs and stuff (unless you speak Korean really, really well!!). it''s the same way with electronics and other stuff over there- you can get stuff cheap in Itaewon, and it may break ina few weeks or months... but if you go to the more "legit" places you get good quality, but the price is not much cheaper than it would be, say, online. several good friends of mine who also live in Seoul told me recently that reputable, high quallity diamonds in Korea aren''t any cheaper than the states. I''m sure if you knew what to look for and were an expert you could find a good deal somewhere, but I sure don''t know enough to be able to tell!
4.gif
i''m going to seoul TOMMORROW!!! for thanksgiving, and my fiance''s Korean mom is going to take me to some places to look for an amethyst ring for my sister (Korea''s amethysts are supposedly famous), and she is definitely someone who knows where to find high quality, good-priced stuff... i''ll let you know if we find anything!!
 

MaryReed

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
3
jennalyns,

Thanks for the input! I would love to know if your mother in law has any suggestions. I was thinking we would save a bit here (with sales tax breaks and stuff), but the worrying about certifications, insurance, and just getting ripped off would not be worh it. The ring I found was 1/2 the price of the same ring back home ....so yeah I think it might be a case of too good to be true. Thanks for you help!!
 

Teeacha

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
1
Hey Girls!! (jennalyns and MaryReed)

Sooooooo super to see both of your imputs on this site as I am currently in Pusan, South Korea and my sweetie and I are shopping for an engagement ring and we have had headaches!!

From the stress of wondering if we were getting a good diamond to finding a reputable jeweler we have been through it all. We went to a big department store Hyundai Department Store and in seomyeon and the diamond/jeweler district in pusan beomil-dong and we also went to a Jeweler in Nampodong and looked at loose diamonds and ordered our ring from Japan to fit a stone that we have chosen to be set here. The diamond is"

.434 carat
excellent cut
VVS2
H
Flourescence Faint Blue
EGL Certified
And I have seen the perfect Hearts & Arrows with my own eyes
the cost is 1,550,000won which is about 1800.00$ Canadian

But as you can tell I am still a bit nervous. We have put a small down payment and we are currently awaiting the settings delivery. Can a diamond be a fake and still have evident, clear, Hearts and Arrows??? And am I crazy to try to shop for a diamond ring in a foreoign country when you can only speak a small amount of Korean "hangu mal chogum?" Any imput would be so super welcome.

Thanks Teechah
19.gif
 

MaryReed

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
3
Hello Teechah!

Congrats on finding one you are happy with!! I am sorry to report that I have not made any headway with the diamond issue. I do think that shopping outside of Itaewon, and Seoul in general is your best bet. From what I have heard, the department stores and large chain stores are reputable and legit. My boyfriend and I have decided to wait until we return home to buy a ring, I am a worry-wort, and to be honest I know nothing beyond the 4 C''s.....and I have found that the paperwork does not mean anything here. But we also agreed that if I love a ring/setting/diamond then we will take our chances and buy it. After all it is the getting the ring and the meaning behind it that counts.
I wish you the best of luck, and I am sure you will be fine....is it possible to get it appraised by a 3rd party?
Best of luck! Congratulations!

Merry Christmas!!

MaryReed
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
9,051

I have had quite a few Korean customers who have chosen to buy in the US and export to Korea. There is a Korean dealer in my building that actually specializes in this. The general consensus is that the dealers are better here. Many Korean customers are extremely picky about certain characteristics of their chosen stones and it’s apparently easier to find trustworthy dealers here that will actually deliver a G-VVS2 when they promise a G-VVS2. I’ve no doubt that there are excellent dealers in every country but they sometimes seem to be difficult to find.


There’s something to be said for shopping in the country that you call home. You’re more likely to understand the laws, the currency, the taxes, and the proceedures for handling potential problems. It helps to be able to speak with a dealer that is convenient to you in a language that you are familiar with.


Naturally, I recommend using 3rd party appraisals. In the case of overseas customers buying in the US, there are quite a few of us that will do this kind of work prior to your export. If you decide to buy locally in an overseas market, ask several of the local jewelers for referrals. If the same name keeps coming up, this is a good sign. Don’t choose one that operates out of a particular store if you can avoid it and after you pick one, don’t tell them what store referred you until after they’ve finished the assignment..

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Top