The Search For The 3 to 4 carat OEC.

[MyDiamondSparkles]

I plant to purchase a 3 to 4 carat OEC in the next few weeks--well depending on if I find "the one" that is. I think I might have found a good candidate, but there's a few things about it I am unsure of and I am hoping the old cut experts will chime in and give me their much appreciated advice.

The report is from a GIA independent gemologist.

First of all it has a feather--not a large one, but still a feather. Is there anything I need to watch out for on this? Like if it's located near the girdle don't buy it, if it is surface reaching don't buy it?

Then it is a deep diamond--it is 66.7--which I don't really understand how it is that deep because it has a spread that I would expect for a diamond of it's size, or at least what I think I should expect--it's 3.59 carats with an average diameter of 9.66 and depth of 6.46. I know a shallow diamond causes fish eye--or at least that is what I have heard. But what happens with a deep diamond? And it 66.7% too deep or are deeper diamonds expected with an OEC?

Then something is off with the table size. The report says it's table is 5.56mm for a table of 62.2%--so normally I would pass on an OEC with this size table, but it looks like the table is smaller to me..., it looks like most of the OEC tables I've seen on this forum--like the report is somehow off????

The seller sent me a few videos of this diamond. Is there any place to upload videos or link to videos or is that not allowed?

 

[SB621]

I would recommend asking this to be moved to rocky talk...you will probably get more advise there as ppl frequent it more.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

I plant to purchase a 3 to 4 carat OEC in the next few weeks--well depending on if I find "the one" that is. I think I might have found a good candidate, but there's a few things about it I am unsure of and I am hoping the old cut experts will chime in and give me their much appreciated advice.

The report is from a GIA independent gemologist.

First of all it has a feather--not a large one, but still a feather. Is there anything I need to watch out for on this? Like if it's located near the girdle don't buy it, if it is surface reaching don't buy it?

Then it is a deep diamond--it is 66.7--which I don't really understand how it is that deep because it has a spread that I would expect for a diamond of it's size, or at least what I think I should expect--it's 3.59 carats with an average diameter of 9.66 and depth of 6.46. I know a shallow diamond causes fish eye--or at least that is what I have heard. But what happens with a deep diamond? And it 66.7% too deep or are deeper diamonds expected with an OEC?

Then something is off with the table size. The report says it's table is 5.56mm for a table of 62.2%--so normally I would pass on an OEC with this size table, but it looks like the table is smaller to me..., it looks like most of the OEC tables I've seen on this forum--like the report is somehow off????

The seller sent me a few videos of this diamond. Is there any place to upload videos or link to videos or is that not allowed?

1. A GIA gemologist means little or nothing. I highly recommend you get your own independent appraisal before you seal the deal.

2. There is no rule of thumb, that is why you need an appraiser's opinion. And a GOOD appraiser at that.

3. That is a really perfect depth (generally speaking) for an OEC. There are no rules though. Too deep can cause over darkness under the table. The report might be wrong. Is probably wrong.

4. You cannot upload video.

Where is it being offered for sale? Is it a private seller or a jeweler?

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

I would recommend asking this to be moved to rocky talk...you will probably get more advise there as ppl frequent it more.

ditto

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

Thank you Dreamer and Sarahbear. I will ask to have this moved to the RT forum.

I realize I will need my own appraiser--I think it's the only way to be safe with this large of a purchase. I phoned Dave Atlas just a moment ago and see what his availability is this coming week--it's a holiday weekend and a lot of people take vacations then. For some reason I was thinking he is located close to where I am, plus he seems to be very experienced with OECs. UPDATE: Gosh, is Dave Atlas quick! I no sooner hung up the phone and he was phoning me right back.

I'm glad to hear that the 66.7% depth doesn't seem to be a problem-- it might be a perfect depth--I hope so!

It's with a jeweler and not a private seller.

 

[ariel144]

67.6 is not too deep for an OEC ...take a look at this one on GOG it is an antique OEC. It is a little deeper than the stone you are considering and Jon states it is one of the best antique OEC's they have had. I did the math on the table of your stone and it looks to be around 57.5% table. (table mm divided by the diameter mm 5.56 divided by 9.66 = 57.55% table) There are OLD European cuts and then there are European cut, and also Transitional Cuts.

The Old E.C. usually have a nice high crown. You can download the video of your stone on youtube and post the link in here.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8140/
video of some OEC's from GOG
BIG LOVE BABY. Awesome comparison between 3 genuine antique diamonds. The first is a 3 1/2ct K VS1, the 2nd a 3 3/4ct M VVS and the last is a 5ct U/V Si1. Chunky flash and BIG personality here. Here are links to the individual diamonds in this clip. As of this moment they are available and for sale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaD9l0ynDaY

Take a look at the measurements of the OEC's on GOG and you will see that the measurements on your stone are fine. Hope it's the ONE!

Hope this helps.

 

[Kim N]

MDS, I'm not knowledgeable enough to help with the cut on that stone, but I'm excited to see what you end up with!

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Dave Atlas is who I would use in this situation too, so good job. Tell us how it goes!

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

Thanks for the advice Ladies!

Ariel: I've looked at those diamonds online---they sure are pretty! I am thinking they are lower in color than what I want--well the K is okay but I don't really want anything lower than an L or I'd snap up the 5 carat one in a minute (so would everyone else....lol).

Kim: How's your search going? Have you found anything yet?

Dreamer: I sent the plot map, videos (one indoor, one outdoor) and appraisal to Dave, he took a look at it and said the diamond looks a few shades lower in color than the stated L color. It also has a few girdle chips that Dave thinks can be polished out without loosing much carat weight at all---but he wouldn't know for sure until he sees the diamond in person. It's hard to judge diamond color in photos though so I contacted the seller about having the diamond shipped to Dave so I could have him appraise it. I just heard back from the seller and he wants the diamond paid for in full before he ships it to Dave--maybe this is customary? It's such a large purchase I'm a 'scaredy cat to plunk down all of my money first. They do have a 60 day return policy but, still....Ackkk! I am being a nervous Nelly and I am somewhat outside my comfort level. If it were just a $5k purchase or a deposit of $10K I wouldn't think twice about it..... sigh....

I wish the seller had better photos---like JBEG does--they make it so much easier to buy because you get several different photos, plus videos, etc--nice photos and videos so you can make a decision almost then and there, if that makes sense.

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Some sellers will send a diamond to an appraiser on memo, but most will not I think

If it has no lab report then generally speaking you can assume it is a few grades lower in clor than a vendor states it to be, unless it is a very reliable vendor. And even then, it is only their opinion, and Dave's opinion.

I think you are looking for something so unusual that you will need to kiss some frogs.

What is your budget? I found a pretty killer rock the other day, you might like it, but it is pricey!

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

Some sellers will send a diamond to an appraiser on memo, but most will not I think

If it has no lab report then generally speaking you can assume it is a few grades lower in clor than a vendor states it to be, unless it is a very reliable vendor. And even then, it is only their opinion, and Dave's opinion.

I think you are looking for something so unusual that you will need to kiss some frogs.

What is your budget? I found a pretty killer rock the other day, you might like it, but it is pricey!

Thanks Dreamer! I'm totally "getting" the kissing frogs part! HA!

My budget is fairly low--I'd love to keep it under 20K--lower color like LKM and lower clarity like SI1 (eye clean), but realistically I think I am going to have to up my budget. I keep thinking about the 3.62 JBeg had for around $23k and I guess I am thinking it is possible to find something in my budget...Right now I've been eying something at $27K --more than what I want to spend (but still within the budget), but it's a higher color than what I am normally seeing out there in 20K land.

I'd love to hear what you've found--might be a lot more than I want to spend though.

 

[Kim N]

MDS, have you seen this one? http://www.rubylane.com/item/514555-rl-724/3-28-Carat-Center-European

No real progress on my search yet, but I'm being patient!

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

MDS, have you seen this one? http://www.rubylane.com/item/514555-rl-724/3-28-Carat-Center-European

No real progress on my search yet, but I'm being patient!

That one is amazing and worth pursuing IMO.

This is the one I found. A little over budget by you could make an offer...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280851125354?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

 

[anne_h]

The rubylane one looks like a great find! Definitely check it out.

The ebay one... it's listed as 6cts, and asking price of 85k. It's also listed as J, to me it looks much more tinted. Although I love the setting, it looks original! Would be super lovely with emeralds (I'm not partial to rubies).

JbEG also has a 3.56ct OEC. The videos and pics look AMAZING, but current asking price is 56k I believe.

Stone shopping is fun (although can be stressful!). GL!!!!!

Anne

 

[Bella_mezzo]

This is the one I found. A little over budget by you could make an offer...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280851125354?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Is this the upgrade you are going for DD?

 

[Enerchi]

....and free shipping, to boot! That just makes the deal so much sweeter!

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

Oh yes, it is perfect for daily wear, not too big you know? The mount is subtle and understated. The price is only a year's salary for many people. Easy decision really.

 

[ariel144]

Oh yes, it is perfect for daily wear, not too big you know? The mount is subtle and understated. The price is only a year's salary for many people. Easy decision really.

LOL, you guys make me laugh! Nice 6c diamond! I would leave off the QUADRUPLE halo...what are people thinking?

 

[ariel144]

What about the one on Fay Cullen 4c $24,000. EGL USA K/L VS1-2 The setting is very pretty too. 9.6x 9.6 X 6.5

Oh, maybe that is the one you found...the depth is 67.7%

http://www.faycullen.com/European-Cut-Diamond-Rings/8776/

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

What about the one on Fay Cullen 4c $24,000. EGL USA K/L VS1-2 The setting is very pretty too. 9.6x 9.6 X 6.5

Oh, maybe that is the one you found...the depth is 67.7%

http://www.faycullen.com/European-Cut-Diamond-Rings/8776/

I hope that is not the one she found, it has been photo shopped in my opinion, the under table area is likely really dark in person from those images. Look at the EGL cert photo, it has a terrible nail head.

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

LOL! You Ladies are too funny! That halo mounting doesn't look original to me, and I'm with you, who would halo a 6 carat diamond? I mean call the UFO hunters 'cuz I think it's starting to look like a flying saucer! It is a pretty diamond though--but much larger than I am looking for and no sense in making an offer on something over $$$ what I want to spend--even if it does have free shipping.

Dreamer, you know what is funny though--I saw a VERY similar looking ring last night while looking around the Internet--I mean almost identical with 3 or 4 halos around it, center diamond is 4.96 carats and it's an I- J VVS with that lovely checkerboard faceting!!!!---and hold on to your seats ladies because the selling price is only $30k! I about fainted and couldn't whip my debit card out fast enough! EXCEPT FOR: IT IS EASTER SUNDAY AND NO ONE IS THERE TO ANSWER THE PHONE!!!! So then I decide to see if they have a web site and they do---and hold on to your seat again (and grab a box of tissues) because their website says the ring is $67K--on sale for a lower price but still more than I said I'd ever spend. I figure it's an old outdated listing on the web site I first saw it on. Well it won't hurt to phone them anyway right? I honestly don't understand why sellers do that. Of course I know it has been said that OEC prices have gone up--but if you've been looking around long enough all you see is the same OEC large diamonds with significantly increased prices still sitting unsold. I'll never understand this concept....

And Ariel and Dreamer: This one: http://www.faycullen.com/European-Cut-Diamond-Rings/8776/ NO! NO! NO! Definitely not that one--although I do think there is something pretty about it---other than it's nail head depth problem. Actually I've watched that one forever on Fay Cullen--2 years ago it had an asking price of $18k, then they had a sale and it dropped down to $15k and a buyer snatched it up and immediately put it back up for sale on Fay Cullen for $18k. At that time the diamond had a UGL report saying it was an O/P. Now they have another type of report that says it's a K (does that look like a K to you????) and the price is $24k. Whatever.

Anne, I love, love, LOVE your diamond! So pretty! Yes, I've seen that 3.56--I do like it--a true, blue beauty!!

Kim, that RL does look promising (thank you!) --I've seen it--it does look shallow--I think the report says 53% depth if I recall and I do think the color is lower than stated. I'm not sure I love that setting either. It's pretty, but chunky too. I'd hate to pop that diamond out of it's original setting....

Dreamer to you think the 3.28 RL one is too shallow and might have that fish eye look to it?

 

[vinjewels]

I wish I were more knowledgeable to help you with the technical part (I have been following yours and Kim's search ), but I will say that I have spoken with (and almost bought from) Rachel, the seller of the RL ring and she's a great retailer...very helpful and honest.
Here's to hoping you find the perfect one!

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

Okay, Ladies---get ready to jump up and down! I "think" found my ring!!!!! OMGosh---I am way too excited! I just spoke to the seller and I will be making the final arrangements on the sale tomorrow. It is, by far, waaay more than I ever expected I'd ever be able to buy with my budget. I'll post details as soon as I get the sale finalized.

 

[Circe]

I've only been lurking, but ... I can't wait to see what you've come up with! Fingers crossed it all goes smoothly.

 

[Kim N]

Can't wait to see it, MDS! I'm very excited for you!!

 

[Enerchi]

Congrats MDS! I've been following and lurking - so very happy that now you have found one that suits! Can't wait for the photos and details - hope it all goes smoothly!

 

[Gypsy]

I've been lurking too and I'm SO EXCITED FOR YOU! I can't wait you must be so thrilled. Fingers and toes crossed for you!

 

[dreamer_dachsie]

GAH! Spill woman!

The RL one from Timeless jewels looks nice in the photos I don't see any fish eye at all. I always take depth estimates with a grain of salt -- like, a cup actually, if they are done mounted.

 

[armywife13]

I have been lurking and following this thread....I can't wait to see what you are getting!!!

 

[fridays_child]

Ooooh, hope it's The One!!!