Specs on a 3 carat diamond for engagement ring... Your opinion?

[Heiny10]

I have found a diamond that my sister and I went to see yesterday. Here are the specs:

3.17
Measures: 9.45 x 9.35 x 5.95
Prep: Excellent
Depth: 63.3%
Table: 56%
Crown: 16%
Pavilion: 44
Girdle: Medium Faceted
Finish: Excellent

SI1
Color: G
Flour: None

IDEAL CUT

EGL -- Certified. Is that ok or is it better to go with GIA, etc?

Let me know what you all think... I could really use the help. I have a few more stones I am looking @ this weekend.

HONEST opinions is appreciated!

Thanks,

Pete

I wanted to go with a D, E, F orginially, but this G looks just like them with it''s ideal cut and all. What do you all think?

 

[Jennifer5973]

The initial numbrers on this one aren't going to get rave reviews here....too deep at 63.3, pavillion is also deep...spread is lacking due to depth, crown looks steep....there are better out there but what did it look like to your eye? You can find good EGL stones (I did) but I would keep looking and compare to others with better numbers to see what you prefer.

When you find a serious candidate, use an independent appraiser. Good luck.

 

[Lynn B]

Pete,

I'm sorry... but I have to agree with Jennifer. Plus, without crown and pav angles it's really impossible to determine the cut. You can't trust anybody simply saying it's "ideal". EGL certs (like ALL certs except AGS) don't give you those numbers, so you will need to request a Sarin.

But you have seen it, right? And you liked it? That's very important. Our eyes are truly our best "tools". Trust them!

Lynn

PS I'm so glad you liked a G! I knew you would!

 

[Heiny10]

Where can I find "good" measurements....depth, table, etc. So I know what to look for this weekend. I want a excellent stone for the money I am spending you know, but don't want to get ripped off with poor quality.

Thanks,

Pete

 

[solange]

You can look at the tutorial on this site. Then if you can get either a Sarin or OGI report, you can put all the figures through the chart and see how the stone ranks. There is also a chart giving specific measurements for American Ideal cut 1A and 1B.


I wish you luck. I see that you are being cautious and I am sure you will wind up with a beautiful stone.

 

[valeria101]

EGL's "ideal" is not the same as everyone elses'. The grade is based on those percentage numbers alone and does not describe a measurement of brilliance for exach and every stone.

The numbers look ok, but unless you get to compare a good range of contenders with reasonably good to top cut precission, it is hard to know whether the difference between this and a H&A round is worth for you.

Just in case, here's one 3.1 H/VS2 H&A

You may want to inspect the report on grading labs (on the frontpage of Pricescope) for a comparison of GIA and EGL grading.

Oh, BTW: did you check that HCA toy? It may not be as good as comparing diamonds in person, but since it is numbers that we get to see here, why not.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Heiny10
Is this egl usa cert ideal cut? if it is then they will also show the pavil & crown angles on the cert. like Jenn said the stone looks too deep,somewhere near 61% total depth would be better.

 

[mdx]

Hi Heini 10

I would suggest you look around a bit more.

Johan

 

[Lynn B]

----------------
On 10/15/2004 6:57:28 PM vtigger86 wrote:


Is this egl usa cert ideal cut? if it is then they will also show the pavil & crown angles on the cert. ----------------

I did NOT know this! MY BAD!!!

Pete, I am so sorry for the misinformation. And V - thanks for correcting this for him.

Lynn

 

[Dancing Fire]

----------------
On 10/15/2004 8:38:10 PM Lynn B wrote:

----------------
On 10/15/2004 6:57:28 PM vtigger86 wrote:


Is this egl usa cert ideal cut? if it is then they will also show the pavil & crown angles on the cert. ----------------

I did NOT know this! MY BAD!!!

Pete, I am so sorry for the misinformation. And V - thanks for correcting this for him.

Lynn
----------------

Lynn
yes,i have a egl usa cert "ideal cut" stone they do show all the measurements. i would also assume the same for their "ideal plus grade" stones,but their ideal cuts has a different range compare to ags 0.

 

[Mara]

eeeeee stay away from that thing...63.3 depth? no way!




Ideal is an overused term and EGL likes to use that for describing some very odd 'ideal' stones, esp their 'Tolowsky Ideal Stones' which sometimes have very odd specs, nowhere near a Pscoper's definition of Ideal.

As for specs, you can use something like these to help you weed out the chaff from the wheat...these are somewhat strict specs that I use. In my opinion there are too many stones out there to end up with a bad one. Esp if the bad one costs the same as the good one which can often be the case if people don't do their homework.




Table: 54-57%


Depth: 60-61.8%


Crown Angle: 34.2-34.9


Pav Angle: 40.4-40.9


Girdle: Thin-Slightly Thick


Culet: None or Pointed


Polish & Symm: VG or EX or ID


Cert: GIA or AGS, some EGL can be good




If it's a GIA cert it won't have angle information, have the vendor run a Sarin report to get that for you.




Some may say that Depth can go to 62.2% or similar...but I prefer under 62% personally. Table, some say 53-57% as well. Some crown angles (aka 33) can work with a slightly more steep pav angle, but it depends on the other specs as well...so these specs are somewhat 'mainstream' for easier to find good stones in my opinion.




Good luck!

 

[bearman49]

Not a big fan of 63.3% depth being called ideal.
You need to watch out for EGL certed stones. They tend to be more off the grade than not.

 

[diamondsman]

When it comes to spending so much money, I would stay with a g.i.a certificate, They are known to be the strictest in their grading, and are not as lienient(in most cases) as the other labs.If she ever wants to upgrade to a better color/clarity or a larger size etc.. she will have an easier time Selling/Trading the G.I.A Stone.
As far as the specs. are conecerned I would agree that 63.3 is a bit high on the depth.If you want to get an ideal cut
I would stay withing the parameters of what Mara wrote in an earlier post.And go with a G.I.A CERT.

GOOD LUCK

 

[Heiny10]

Thank you all for your input. I went to see a few more diamonds yesterday and one of the diamonds was beautiful (not ideal cut), but beautiful and it was $75,000. It was crazy. It was also E color. I'd like to find a GIA or AGS certified 3 carat diamond that won't be twice the price of the EGL that I have found so far. It's important for me to find a nice diamond with good resale value, etc (in case we decided to upgrade, etc -- which I highly doubt), but also something that's somewhat reasonable for the price range I am in.

Should I keep looking or settle for the EGL. Is it rude of me to ask to have this diamond appraised by another jeweler? I'd like to make sure I am getting what I am paying for.

Thanks again,

Pete

P.S. I called White Flash. They have a 3 carat, but it's a good 8K more than the one I found. Is the depth of a diamond worth 8K?

 

[Nicrez]

Heiny10,

Speaking as a consumer, I have to say, NEVER SETTLE. Consider that it's YOUR money, and your diamond that hopefully, you will have for years and years to come. That said, Don't settle.

I am searching for a car, and recently realized that almost every single salesperson in every field from diamonds to cars will use "tactics" to sell things to you, whether it is what you want, or what they just want to sell to you.

Rule 1: Know what you want. Be as specific as possible, without being ridiculous or cutting off any chances of finding a stone that makes you happy. Know color, clarity, approximate price, and even angles and certification. Be somewhat flexible to keep your options open, but always start out specific and you can then be flexible from there.

Rule 2: DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!! Know prices of such stones as you are looking for, know what levels you are willing to fall under and what levels you are NOT willing to fall under. If you don't want a J colored stone, know how much of a discount it would be for a J versus an H you requested, and keep such pricing and details in mind.

Rule 3: Don't get scared or emotionally suckered into a fast deal. Yes, diamonds do go quickly, especially in popular sizes like .75cts to 3cts, BUT consider that you make a mistake and buy it, CAN YOU RETURN IT?! Weddings and engagements are so emtotional for people, but use your HEAD and LOGIC, versus listening to THEIR assessment of "ideal" and "perfect".

Rule 4: Don't BUY until you are sure you want it, you have it appraised, and it turns out to be what is represented, as well as is a rational price for what they are asking. Never hurts to ask for a better price or a discount. ALWAYS ask. Be confident and know that YOU are the consumer and YOU have the power!!

Rule 5: Read the fine print, and make sure you get all your requests in writing. If they claim to have an upgrade policy, GET IT IN WRITING!!! I suggest you engineer a deal with a company your trust that will upgrade your stone in the future with a generous buy-back (or equal to your purchase price), than waste your time to find a "good resale price" stone, because very few diamonds are EVER "good investments". They are luxury items, plain and simple. Unless it has a very rare feature or is named, I doubt you'll be making money on it!

Good luck, and make sure you are specific with what you want, don't back down, know your pricing, and bargain down if you can. Demand an independant appraiser before you buy, and get a good deal in writing, with a good refund or upgrade policy in writing too...

Good luck!!!!

 

[alexah]

Since you're calling i-net vendors, i did a search on ERD (which only sells GIA stones) & found this one that has potential if it's eye-clean (Mark would run a sarin on it to get all the missing info)... 3.02 E SI2 for $25685 (cash price) which actually faces up bigger than the 3.17 you were considering...

 

[solange]

Did you look through the whole Whiteflash inventory using their search engine or speak with Lesley and tell her exactly what you are looking for and in what price range? The stone recommended by a few people here was a Whiteflash A Cut Above Hearts and Arrows. You pay more for this quality but you might be just as satisfied with a well proportioned stone for a lot less.
Lesley found me a great stone at several thousand dollars less than I told her I was willing to spend.You could call some of the other Pricescope vendors and see what they have as well. It is important to speak with someone directly and work out with them the best they can give you for the price you want to spend.

 

[reena]

----------------
On 10/17/2004 3:02:13 PM Heiny10 wrote:

Thank you all for your input. I went to see a few more diamonds yesterday and one of the diamonds was beautiful (not ideal cut), but beautiful and it was $75,000. It was crazy. It was also E color. I'd like to find a GIA or AGS certified 3 carat diamond that won't be twice the price of the EGL that I have found so far. It's important for me to find a nice diamond with good resale value, etc (in case we decided to upgrade, etc -- which I highly doubt), but also something that's somewhat reasonable for the price range I am in.

Should I keep looking or settle for the EGL. Is it rude of me to ask to have this diamond appraised by another jeweler? I'd like to make sure I am getting what I am paying for.

Thanks again,

Pete

P.S. I called White Flash. They have a 3 carat, but it's a good 8K more than the one I found. Is the depth of a diamond worth 8K?

----------------

don't "settle". that's waaaaaay too much money to settle. there's no reason to rush this. my .02.

the WF stone may well be more expensive for a reason--ie, perhaps it has a better cut than the one you posted before that didn't get rave reviews here.

 

[quaeritur]

I think it boils down to what your priorities truly are. If you want a 3 ct stone to say you got a 3 ct stone, then there are probably cheaper ones out there that fit that bill... some may look like rock salt, but that's three whole carats worth of rock salt.

To put it differently, you need to decide your priorities. There are stones that are a lower carat weight than the EGL stone you posted, that will look as big or bigger, and probably be a whole lot sparklier.




My personal priority is the absolute most crazy sparkle and liveliness out of my stone. For that, cut has to be my top priority. I would sacrifice everything in favor of cut. After that, it becomes a matter of whether I want color over size or size over clarity, etc. I believe there are awesome EGL certed stones to be found (just look at Jennifer's beauty!) -BUT you HAVE to know what to look for. Just because someone says it's "ideal" doesn't make it so. Since EGL provides the info, you're in the great position to be able to run it through all of the available tools -the HCA, the AGA cut charts- to see if it'll be top notch.




Again, if your priority isn't to have a top notch cut, and you're willing to give up some of the spectacular performance of a true ideal cut in favor of mere carat weight (which doesn't necessarily translate into visible size!!!), then this EGL stone may fit the bill. But as others have said before, this particular stone doesn't really qualify as the best of the best. Not all "ideal cuts" are created equal

.

 

[Heiny10]

I want visible size. That is why I am in the 3 to 3.5 range. That is why everyone says no on the depth of the diamond my jeweler presented me -- correct? I don't want to buy it just to say I have a 3 carat diamond. I want it to look big, wide, and sparkle.

I am calling the other vendors -- Thank you everyone for your help.

Thanks,

P

 

[reena]

i know nothing about RBs pete, but reading this thread i don't think that the "visible size" factor is the only reason people here suggested that you stay away from that first diamond. that is, the greater depth may indeed make it look smaller for its carat weight, but the bigger problem/worry seems to be that, because that and the other specs fall outside of the ideal range, the diamond may be lacking in sparkle, liveliness, etc. the point is, if you want a fabulous diamond, spread shouldn't be your only concern.