shape
carat
color
clarity

RADIANT NUMBERS! HELP!

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

YMA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
171
What can you tell by these numbers?????????????



2.55 GIA Cert. Rec. Radiant


Color: I

Clarity: SI1

Depth: 68%

8.37 x 7.28 x 5.08 ???????????/

Will this stone face up like 2.5 carat??
 

perry

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 19, 2004
Messages
2,542
Who did you buy it from:

If from Good Old Gold (GOG) or NiceIce, then it will be great. All they carry is "GREAT"

I am sure their are a few others as well (I would also trust Wink).

If from some mass diamond sales house.... then your question makes sense.

Sorry, I''m not sure what makes a good radiant - by the numbers... (but an Ideal scope or similar image would tell a lot).

Perry
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
it will face up more like a 2ct. not a 2.5ct.
 

YMA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
171
O.k. please tell me how to determine that, what should I be looking for?

I already have a 2ct Radiant, I was hoping to so called up grade
face5.gif
 

coda72

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
1,669
This is just my opinion of course, but for radiants I would either buy one that has a depth of 60-65% or else buy an Original Radiant Cut. That is the only way to make sure that the stone you''re getting will not look smaller than it should. You gave the depth, but what is the girdle thickness on this stone? Is it thick or extra thick? If so, this will also hide some weight and make it appear smaller.
 

RADIANTMAN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
191
Date: 10/30/2005 9:16:39 PM
Author:YMA
What can you tell by these numbers?????????????



2.55 GIA Cert. Rec. Radiant


Color: I

Clarity: SI1

Depth: 68%

8.37 x 7.28 x 5.08 ???????????/

Will this stone face up like 2.5 carat??
Hi YMA:

When you multiply the length x width you get approximately 61 sq mm which is fine for a 2.50 carat radiant. It's not spready for a 2.5, but it does not look smaller either.

Radiants are complicated, and performance cannot be extrapolated in any reliable way solely from numbers. Spread, on the other hand, is a pure mathematical computation, having nothing to do with depth percentage. It is length x width minus the area lost due to the cut corners. On your stone we don't know the size of the cut corners, but assuming they are in the normal range, you can be comfortable that there is nothing wrong with the spread of your stone.
 

diamondsbylauren

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Messages
1,128
Stan,
I like idea of using sq mm size to describe surface area.
BUT- it's very important to re-emphasize that simply having a good size surface area does NOT mean a diamond is desirable.
I know you knew this- and even indicated it in your post, but you can't repeat this fact too ofter here.


YMA- all we can tell from the numbers is that someone measured the diamond, nothing more.
 

RADIANTMAN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
191
Hi David:

Obviously, I agree with you. My answer was limited to the very specific question that was asked. I can tell nothing about that diamond from those numbers except the spread, and spread is but one of the myriad of factors that go into the evaluation of cut.

Twenty years ago, my father, Henry Grossbard, the inventor of the Radiant Cut, gave me his definition of a well cut diamond, and it was not couched in numbers. "A well cut diamond" he said "is a diamond that looks its carat weight and has the right life."

The first criterion - spreads its carat weight - is quantifiable by numbers. The second - has the right life - is not. The numbers are important since they provide red flags that problems may exist, but in the end, only a visual examination by someone experienced in radiant cuts can assure that the second crirerion is met.
 

YMA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
171
DBL & Radiantman,

Thank you for your responses, I guess I thought those numbers meant something beside measurements b/c everyone post them when describing their stone.

I also thought those number would tell you(all other things being o.k) if the diamond would face up as it''s true carat or look smaller.

So basically with Radiants it about how they look in person?

I am so confused
emdgust.gif
 

RADIANTMAN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
191
Hi YMA;

Sorry to confuse you, but cut quality in a radiant is complicated. While I personally believe that buying any diamond sight unseen is a risky business, radiants present greater risks than more symmetrical shapes with less complex faceting like rounds and princesses.

Few people would question my expertise in radiant cuts, and I have never, and never will, buy one sight unseen. It amazes me that consumers can read a few articles and convince themselves that they are now knowledgable enough to do something that I would be afraid to do.

There is no substitute to seeing a radiant cut in person. If you do buy on the net, make sure you have shopped stores as well, and be prepared to return it if it''s not as nice as the ones you''ve seen in person. Also, take photographs (if unretouched) more seriously as an indicator of what the diamond will look like than "idealscopes," "brilliantscopes" and the like. Those instruments were developed for round diamonds and are pretty useless in evaluating radiants.
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
yma,
if you already have a 2ct. radiant and want to upgrade, you will want to look for stones with dimensions larger than your current stone. the dimensions are the lxwxd measurements like the ones you posted previously.
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
Date: 10/31/2005 3:51:47 PM
Author: RADIANTMAN
Hi YMA;

While I personally believe that buying any diamond sight unseen is a risky business, radiants present greater risks than more symmetrical shapes with less complex faceting like rounds and princesses.
risky business?
not any more risky than walking into a jewelry store and having someone convince you that they have the best cut diamond...no matter how it performs.
14.gif




Date: 10/31/2005 3:51:47 PM
Author: RADIANTMAN

Few people would question my expertise in radiant cuts, and I have never, and never will, buy one sight unseen. It amazes me that consumers can read a few articles and convince themselves that they are now knowledgable enough to do something that I would be afraid to do.
i don't question your expertise one bit, however, your position allows you avenues not available to the average consumer. the internet has opened up a new world for buyers and can be very rewarding for those willing to take the time to learn about their purchase. if the consumer is buying from a reputable vendor, what is there to be afraid of?
33.gif




Date: 10/31/2005 3:51:47 PM
Author: RADIANTMAN

There is no substitute to seeing a radiant cut in person. If you do buy on the net, make sure you have shopped stores as well, and be prepared to return it if it's not as nice as the ones you've seen in person. Also, take photographs (if unretouched) more seriously as an indicator of what the diamond will look like than 'idealscopes,' 'brilliantscopes' and the like. Those instruments were developed for round diamonds and are pretty useless in evaluating radiants.
idealscope and brillancescope are two totally different tools. totally. i think it would be more helpful if you could explain, in your opinion, the extent of the uselessness for each.
 

YMA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
171
Belle,

Thank for your advise, and reply.


AHHHHHHHHHHH, You gave me the answer I was looking for, now I can go home and look and my currect GIA report and compare the measurements to the new stone I am looking to purchase.

That''s what I''ve been trying to get all along, I know you have to look at the stone, grading, clarity, cut , color and idea scope blah, blah, blah, but what I really wanted to know is how and what those measurements mean.

So....... if the measurements are larger then my current stone and the depth is lower will the new stone be worth it to upgrade to 2.55 point to make a difference or should I wait it out for that dream 3 carats.

THATS WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR.......THANKS, BELLE
 

diamondsbylauren

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Messages
1,128
Belle,
YOu have some good points.
I think Stan does too.

I''m quite sure tht Stan will agree that if someone has a well supplied reputable jeweler they trust telling them it''s a great stone, that''s the number one path to getting a good radiant cut- or any diamond.
I guess maybe Stan''s point ( and one I''ve been hameering home for so long) is that if one thinks the numbers give them useful knowledge, they might actually be more prone to getting ripped off- or buying a less than desirable stone. this holds true if one walks into a store, or logs onto a site.
You know, a little knowledge can be very dangerous........


I totally agree with stan on the uselessness of IS and BS images.
 

YMA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
171
Diamonds by Lauren,

I wish I had found out about your site before purchasing my current stone, I L
30.gif
30.gif
E your site and beautiful stones. I guess when I am ready for that big upgrade I will check you out.

I could kick myself
29.gif
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
Date: 10/31/2005 5:18:18 PM
Author: YMA
Belle,

Thank for your advise, and reply.


AHHHHHHHHHHH, You gave me the answer I was looking for, now I can go home and look and my currect GIA report and compare the measurements to the new stone I am looking to purchase.

That''s what I''ve been trying to get all along, I know you have to look at the stone, grading, clarity, cut , color and idea scope blah, blah, blah, but what I really wanted to know is how and what those measurements mean.

So....... if the measurements are larger then my current stone and the depth is lower will the new stone be worth it to upgrade to 2.55 point to make a difference or should I wait it out for that dream 3 carats.

THATS WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR.......THANKS, BELLE
wooohooo! i think we''re getting somewhere. yes, if your goal is to get a bigger stone, then you need to look at the measurements. there is no reason to pay for more carat weight, i.e. 2.5 vs. your current 2.0 if the measurements are the same. if the numbers are very close, you''re not gaining anything.
 

RADIANTMAN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
191
Date: 10/31/2005 5:18:45 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
Belle,
YOu have some good points.
I think Stan does too.

I''m quite sure tht Stan will agree that if someone has a well supplied reputable jeweler they trust telling them it''s a great stone, that''s the number one path to getting a good radiant cut- or any diamond.
I guess maybe Stan''s point ( and one I''ve been hameering home for so long) is that if one thinks the numbers give them useful knowledge, they might actually be more prone to getting ripped off- or buying a less than desirable stone. this holds true if one walks into a store, or logs onto a site.
You know, a little knowledge can be very dangerous........


I totally agree with stan on the uselessness of IS and BS images.
David - well said.

The best way to buy any diamond is to buy it from a quality vendor with the expertise to help you navigate through the minefields. Since when you buy online you do not get to see the diamond yourself, picking the right vendor is even more important.

Radiants must be seen to be accurately evaluated, and if you cannot see the diamond yourself, you are trusting the eyes and expertise of your vendor. There is nothing wrong with that, you just need to understand that you are doing it.

My point about the idealscope and brilliantscope being useless is simply that I don''t believe that the information those tools provide are even close to as reliable as the information picked up by the human eye in evaluating radiants. If a vendor that you trust tells you that a diamond is beautiful, that provides much more useful information than any tool that I know of. If you don''t trust the vendor, then don''t buy from them. An idealscope image or brilliantscope report will not fix the problem.
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
Date: 10/31/2005 5:18:45 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren

I''m quite sure tht Stan will agree that if someone has a well supplied reputable jeweler they trust telling them it''s a great stone, that''s the number one path to getting a good radiant cut- or any diamond.
i agree with this as well david, but i feel it''s necessary to point out that one can build the same trust in an online source. buying over the internet does not have to be the scary proposition stan makes it out to be.

Date: 10/31/2005 5:18:45 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
I guess maybe Stan''s point ( and one I''ve been hameering home for so long) is that if one thinks the numbers give them useful knowledge, they might actually be more prone to getting ripped off- or buying a less than desirable stone. this holds true if one walks into a store, or logs onto a site.
You know, a little knowledge can be very dangerous........
i will meet you in the middle on this one. for rounds, which are very straightforward in cut, i think the numbers can be extremely useful. for fancy cuts, i would be more cautious. there are too many variables to rely on the numbers alone with fancies. and yes, a little knowledge can be very dangerous but it can be quite helpful too.
2.gif
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
Date: 10/31/2005 5:48:37 PM
Author: RADIANTMAN

If a vendor that you trust tells you that a diamond is beautiful, that provides much more useful information than any tool that I know of. If you don''t trust the vendor, then don''t buy from them. An idealscope image or brilliantscope report will not fix the problem.
agreed.
2.gif
 

diamondsbylauren

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Messages
1,128
Yes Belle-we totally agree that it is very possible to buy an amazing diamond from a vendor who sells on the internet.

You would NOT belive how many people are completely bowled over when I tell them what I do.....
"Buy a diamond online? You''re kidding right? Who would do that????" Clearly there''s more educating to be done.

How many retail "walk in" stores offer money back guarantees? Most simply offer exchange. Handcuff me to a store..... right.



Numbers are perhaps more useful in judging rounds, but still not nearly enough to get me to purchase.

That''s so true that sometimes a little knowledge can be helpful. Sometimes a little knowledge can lead us to far greater knowledge. Sometimes the "little knowledge" gives us a false bravado that stings us.
I suppose we''re all subject to luck too.
1.gif
 

YMA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
171
ER.....um excuse me for taking the short yellow bus on this one, I finally got it
emteeth.gif




O.K., O.K., O.K.........I promise after this question I will leave you people alone.


I will post this measuresments from my current stone and the soon to be new one.....I know you can't tell much by the numbers but...........by these number can you tell if the new Radiant will look bigger.


2.02ct

7.86 x 6.30 x 4.64 mm



2.55ct

8.37 x 7.28 x 5.08 mm
 

diamondsbylauren

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Messages
1,128
I can only speak for myself, but I''m happy to answer any question that I can- no problem.

I''d say the larger stone is not a night and day difference visually.
 

coda72

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
1,669
Date: 10/31/2005 8:01:11 PM
Author: YMA




2.02ct


7.86 x 6.30 x 4.64 mm




2.55ct


8.37 x 7.28 x 5.08 mm

Well, the measurements aren''t that much different. The 2.55 carat will look slightly bigger, but I don''t think it''s worth spending a lot of money to go up a 1/2 carat. If you''re getting a great deal on the 2.55, I''d snatch it up. If not, just keep your 2.02 and save up for a 3 carat stone.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
I think as the pros Radiantman and DBL say, radiants are tricky and cannot always be evaluated by the numbers ,it comes down to this. Look at the diamond, compare it to the one you have and go with the one you prefer. If there was a set ideal to evaluate radiants these guys would know, however radiants are a different ball game, so use your eyes - they won''t lie to you. Also you will be able to see the size difference when comparing the two stones and see which one works for you best.
 

diamondsbylauren

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Messages
1,128
How true Lorelei!

Visual comparison is DA BOMB!!
36.gif

I''ve had cases of two diamonds which had near identical numbers- I was sure they''d match for Earrings- boy was I W-R-O-N-G!!!!!!

Differences in corners and other intangebles will make one diamond look big and bright, while another looks smaller and dingy- even with the same measurements.

If it''s possible to hold your stone next to the one you''re thinking of, wow- that would really give you the answer!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Thanks David
9.gif
that just proves from a professional opinion that sometimes the diamond may sound good on paper but somehow just doesn''t perform as well as another and the eyes are the best judge of this. I completely agree with David, compare the two if you can, then you will know the answer
30.gif
30.gif
 

YMA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
171
Thanks everyone, I will compare the two stones side by side on Thursday and let everyone know.


The price of the new stone is not much more and they will give me full credit for my current stone.


What would I do without you guys, aaaaawwwwwww
emteeth.gif
emlove.gif
 

Kaleigh

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
29,570
Good luck on Thursday and take your time in viewing them side by side. Most of all trust your eyes. Then come back and give us a full report.
1.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Top