Question about Symmetry and Polish

[JeBri31508]

I have a question for the experts around here ...I have been doing my "research" here on PS about diamonds, cut, etc, and originally I thought that I wanted a H&A round brilliant, approximately 1 carat. However, I have been wondering if you can actually tell the difference between an H&A compared to another equally ideal cut stone by the naked eye? If, in fact, you can''t, I am thinking that I would rather just go with an Ideal cut diamond and not pay the H&A premium. However, when I am looking at diamonds, what should my guidelines be for the symmetry and polish to ensure an excellent cut? Before, I assumed the GIA triple EX was what mattered, but now I am rethinking that mantra. I know that I will still need to plug in the numbers in the HCA, and get IS images, etc, but if anyone can give me insight into the Polish and Symmetry I would really appreciate it. TIA!

 

[Lestat]

Far from an expert, but here's a good page that compares a H&A cut versus an example of a non-pattered ideal cut. That said, you can find stones that didn't quite make the H&A grade that should give you a similar look without the full premium, for example, the Whiteflash Expert Selection versus their ACA stones. Be aware that H&A standards can vary, images of hearts & arrows are needed to judge the symmetry.

I personally wouldn't drop below 'very good' on either polish or symmetry, you could probably stretch it down to 'good' without much visible difference, but I start to wonder why the cutter didn't think it was worth the extra work to meet the very good or excellent grades, maybe the stone wasn't worth it?

HCA is a good start to reject stones outside ideal angles quickly, then use IS images and the other reports to do your final selection.

 

[JeBri31508]

Date: 2/14/2010 10:00:28 PM
Author: Lestat
Far from an expert, but here''s a good page that compares a H&A cut versus an example of a non-pattered ideal cut. That said, you can find stones that didn''t quite make the H&A grade that should give you a similar look without the full premium, for example, the Whiteflash Expert Selection versus their ACA stones. Be aware that H&A standards can vary, images of hearts & arrows are needed to judge the symmetry.

I personally wouldn''t drop below ''very good'' on either polish or symmetry, you could probably stretch it down to ''good'' without much visible difference, but I start to wonder why the cutter didn''t think it was worth the extra work to meet the very good or excellent grades, maybe the stone wasn''t worth it?

HCA is a good start to reject stones outside ideal angles quickly, then use IS images and the other reports to do your final selection.

Thank you for the reply Lestat! now, in the images I can clearly tell the difference between H&A and non--patterned ideal cut, but would I be able to tell IRL? Can a non H&A be just as beautiful as the H&A?

 

[tonyc2387]

Date: 2/14/2010 10:09:58 PM
Author: JeBri31508
but would I be able to tell IRL? Can a non H&A be just as beautiful as the H&A?

Could you tell? Sure. I can definitely see the patterning in my ACA. The real question is, which one do you prefer? That, you can only tell by comparing ones IRL.

 

[Lestat]

I''ll let someone more experienced go into more depth, but I''d imagine you could see the difference IRL, but whether that means one or the other is less beautiful is up to you.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/14/2010 10:09:58 PM
Author: JeBri31508

Date: 2/14/2010 10:00:28 PM
Author: Lestat
Far from an expert, but here's a good page that compares a H&A cut versus an example of a non-pattered ideal cut. That said, you can find stones that didn't quite make the H&A grade that should give you a similar look without the full premium, for example, the Whiteflash Expert Selection versus their ACA stones. Be aware that H&A standards can vary, images of hearts & arrows are needed to judge the symmetry.

I personally wouldn't drop below 'very good' on either polish or symmetry, you could probably stretch it down to 'good' without much visible difference, but I start to wonder why the cutter didn't think it was worth the extra work to meet the very good or excellent grades, maybe the stone wasn't worth it?

HCA is a good start to reject stones outside ideal angles quickly, then use IS images and the other reports to do your final selection.

Thank you for the reply Lestat! now, in the images I can clearly tell the difference between H&A and non--patterned ideal cut, but would I be able to tell IRL? Can a non H&A be just as beautiful as the H&A?

A non h&a can, in my opinion be just as beautiful as a h&a if it is well cut - whether you can tell the difference....Yes quite possibly concerning the optical symmetry or h&a patterning, I can tell what I think is the difference with my naked eye in some stones if the patterning is off or not, at least face up with the arrow patterning.

Great post Lestat, you are doing wonderful work here!

 

[Lestat]

Thanks Lorelei! I''m very happy if I can help, I must admit though, everything I know has come from Pricescope, this site is amazing and the vendors and expert consumers like you have been filling it over time with a wealth of knowledge for consumers like me to dig through! I learn a bit more every day!

 

[elle_chris]

I can''t tell between my H&A and ideal.

Many times in an ideal stone, you''ll still see the arrows pattern. The hearts you won''t see in either as the stone''s going to be mounted. Also, you have to remember that you won''t see the arrows all the time, not even half the time. The lighting has to just right.

Here''s a pic of my GIA ex,ex,ex. This is NOT an H&A stone, but the arrows are there. My true H&A stones look the same.

BUT, that being said, when I was looking, I used the HCA tool, a vendor I trusted, and kept the numbers in the safe range. 34-35 crown, 40.7-41 pav., 54-57 table(I don''t like large tables), and depth not over 62.3

 

[JeBri31508]

Date: 2/15/2010 10:32:58 AM
Author: elle_chris
I can''t tell between my H&A and ideal.

Many times in an ideal stone, you''ll still see the arrows pattern. The hearts you won''t see in either as the stone''s going to be mounted. Also, you have to remember that you won''t see the arrows all the time, not even half the time. The lighting has to just right.

Here''s a pic of my GIA ex,ex,ex. This is NOT an H&A stone, but the arrows are there. My true H&A stones look the same.

BUT, that being said, when I was looking, I used the HCA tool, a vendor I trusted, and kept the numbers in the safe range. 34-35 crown, 40.7-41 pav., 54-57 table(I don''t like large tables), and depth not over 62.3

Thanks everyone for replying! Elle--did you purchase online or through a local vendor? Can I ask the reason that you chose to go GIA triple EX and not AGSO? The reason I ask is because my husband really wants to go through a local vendor whos prices are pretty much the same as online vendors, but he only does GIA, no AGS grading diamonds. I''ve been slightly concerned about the GIA EX since reading about the steep/deep combinations that they allow, but it seems like the AGSOs are a little more expensive than the GIA ones...

 

[Stone-cold11]

Date: 2/15/2010 12:04:27 PM
Author: JeBri31508

Thanks everyone for replying! Elle--did you purchase online or through a local vendor? Can I ask the reason that you chose to go GIA triple EX and not AGSO? The reason I ask is because my husband really wants to go through a local vendor whos prices are pretty much the same as online vendors, but he only does GIA, no AGS grading diamonds. I''ve been slightly concerned about the GIA EX since reading about the steep/deep combinations that they allow, but it seems like the AGSOs are a little more expensive than the GIA ones...

Nothing wrong with GIA Ex stones if you can get a look with an Idealscope and see no leakage.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/15/2010 12:04:27 PM
Author: JeBri31508

Date: 2/15/2010 10:32:58 AM
Author: elle_chris
I can''t tell between my H&A and ideal.

Many times in an ideal stone, you''ll still see the arrows pattern. The hearts you won''t see in either as the stone''s going to be mounted. Also, you have to remember that you won''t see the arrows all the time, not even half the time. The lighting has to just right.

Here''s a pic of my GIA ex,ex,ex. This is NOT an H&A stone, but the arrows are there. My true H&A stones look the same.

BUT, that being said, when I was looking, I used the HCA tool, a vendor I trusted, and kept the numbers in the safe range. 34-35 crown, 40.7-41 pav., 54-57 table(I don''t like large tables), and depth not over 62.3

Thanks everyone for replying! Elle--did you purchase online or through a local vendor? Can I ask the reason that you chose to go GIA triple EX and not AGSO? The reason I ask is because my husband really wants to go through a local vendor whos prices are pretty much the same as online vendors, but he only does GIA, no AGS grading diamonds. I''ve been slightly concerned about the GIA EX since reading about the steep/deep combinations that they allow, but it seems like the AGSOs are a little more expensive than the GIA ones...

Hi JeBri

As long as you evaluate each GIA Excellent cut grade carefully you should be fine, Idealscope or the Holloway Cut Advisor can help there.

 

[JeBri31508]

I guess the reason I''m feeling slightly concerned is because the vendor will not have the diamond in-house, so he will have to order one (he said that he doesn''t have any GIA triple EX''s in his store, but it is not hard for him to order). So, he said I could give him a strict criteria of proportions, angles, etc, and then he would find a stone, I would look over the report, and then he would buy it. They have a 10 day return policy (and it''s local, so no biggie on getting over there), so I guess I could just inspect it when it comes in, and if it shows leakage, send it back. Grr...that just seems like a lot of hassle though, if I have to send it back and then start over. It seems like it would actually be easier just going online so I can request the IS images, but the hubby really likes this vendor....hmm...