Question about Diamonds in strong direct sunlight

I don''t think you will be able to notice faint blue fluor. It is probably just the sky color you are seeing. Also, in strong sunlight, because so much light is being reflected into your eyes, the iris close up to prevent your retina from getting burn, thus also making the stone looks darker overall although still bright in the flashes.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/NewCutGrading/FireDispersion/

In this page, Jon of GOG demonstrates some effect of fire between different lighting conditions. Is this similar to what you described?

Date: 4/13/2009 6:53:19 PM
Author:jkc350z
I have done a little reading on the forums here and saw a couple of posts from Gary H. that diamonds in strong direct sunlight sometimes do not seem to look very good and they can kind of have a hazy grey/blue appearance.

Why is this?

I recently had a stone appraised and they said it has just a slight bit of fluoro, but when I took it outside to view....in very strong direct sunlight...it seemed kind of hazy and greyish/blueish. In all other lighting it looks absolutely stunning, but then again in the strong sunlight it was hard to see the stone up close as my eyes kept going out because it was so bright outside.

The certification says that there is no fluro, but it looks like there could be very faint.

Ideal cut stones don't look pretty in direct sunlight. Mine do that too. I keep trying to catch a normal stone (on someones hand) in the same lighting conditions to see what theirs looks like. Haven't been able to yet.

These are the measurements of my stone.

Table: 59.3%
Table: 58%
Crown: 14%
Pav: 43%

sym: Ex
Pol: ex
2.14 ct

The link of good old gold makes me feel a lot more comfortable.  In direct sunlight it almost looks like a hazy blue, but beams of fire still flash up and hit my eyes, but when I went back to the jewelry store, we took it outside and in bright sunlight, but not direct.... the stone did not exhibit this trait.  I was confused and worried.

Like in this video? At the fire comparison, around 2 min mark.

http://www.vimeo.com/4063577

I am at work so I cant view the video...I will view it when I get home in about 35 minutes.

My stone does that too, and it has no fluor. I think it''s normal.

Diamonds do not need fluoro to look bad in direct sunlight.
The better the cut, the worse they usually look

I am glad to hear these replies! I was getting worried...it looked almost milky/hazy in DIRECT sunlight. I was going blind starring at it because I did not know what was going on!

Date: 4/13/2009 10:20:38 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Diamonds do not need fluoro to look bad in direct sunlight.
The better the cut, the worse they usually look

Ditto!

Garry,

You must have some strange sunlight in down under land. Must be coming through the bottoms of your stones...

I routinely walk outside with my in-house clients and we look at the diamonds in many different lighting situations, including direct sunlight.

The only problems we see with super ideal cut diamonds in the sunlight is that they hurt our eyes...

Wink

Gary, with all due respect, I think it might be better if you said you don''t care for how a diamond looks in the sun. It really is rather subjective, and the power of suggestion may cause some (or a lot) of people to view this situation differently than they might if they had not read your multiple comments like this. Just a suggestion.

Besides, Wink and I can''t keep jumping in threads to defend the diamonds!

I''m wondering if everyone''s talking about the same type of lighting? By direct I mean it usually happens in the morning (at least here in nyc), not a bright day but the sun''s out in full force and it''s directly in front on top? Does that make sense?

Anyway, my ACA''s and GOG stones go bluish/grey with an odd type of haze.

Date: 4/14/2009 9:31:56 AM
Author: elle_chris
I'm wondering if everyone's talking about the same type of lighting? By direct I mean it usually happens in the morning (at least here in nyc), not a bright day but the sun's out in full force and it's directly in front on top? Does that make sense?

Anyway, my ACA's and GOG stones go bluish/grey with an odd type of haze.

No? lol

Mine can go dark at different times of the day.


jkc, have you seen the fire thread? The majority of my shots (and many others) were in the sun. As you can see, it got many different "looks", but I honestly can't say I personally find them unattractive. It also has faint flo, but that doesn't have any affect on it.

http://www.pricescope.com/forum/show-me-the-ring/the-fire-thread-t77649.html

yeah.. lol.. i don't know how to explain where the sun is.

but this happens on dull looking days even though the suns out. and like i said ealier, in the mornings around 8, 9ish.

I'll take a pic on my way to work tomorrow and show you what i mean.

I held the stone with the suns ray directly at my back and held the stone up facing my face to where my body was not casting a shadow on the stone. It appeared blue/grey and a bit hazy (or maybe not hazy...but I could not see the facets distinctly).

When I held the stone in daylight...but not DIRECT sun rays it did not exhibit this trait.

Who knows! lol

Date: 4/14/2009 9:18:42 AM
Author: Wink
Garry,

You must have some strange sunlight in down under land. Must be coming through the bottoms of your stones...

I routinely walk outside with my in-house clients and we look at the diamonds in many different lighting situations, including direct sunlight.

The only problems we see with super ideal cut diamonds in the sunlight is that they hurt our eyes...

Wink

LOL

Maybe, Garry''s observations are different than yours because he is close to the big hole in the ozone layer, while you are clearly not, Wink.

Live long,

Well, I understand where Garry and Wink both are coming from.

While I realize that beauty (or lack of it!) are in the eye of the beholder, I am actually in Garry''s camp with this one.     (Ohlordhelpme!!!)        

I absolutely do not care for how my AGS-0 RB looks in strong direct overhead sunlight.  Hazy and murky and dark are three words that readily come to mind.   TONS of bold, broad flashes of fire, though... which I can see could appeal to some people. 

But personally, give me diffuse lighting ANY day of the week!      

Date: 4/14/2009 4:21:56 PM
Author: Lynn B
Well, I understand where Garry and Wink both are coming from.

While I realize that beauty (or lack of it!) are in the eye of the beholder, I am actually in Garry''s camp with this one. (Ohlordhelpme!!!)

I absolutely do not care for how my AGS-0 RB looks in strong direct overhead sunlight. Hazy and murky and dark are three words that readily come to mind. TONS of bold, broad flashes of fire, though... which I can see could appeal to some people.

But personally, give me diffuse lighting ANY day of the week!

I think can be dangerous for your eyes since you can be looking directly at concentrated sunlight.

And the other factor is that diamonds do look dark under very strong light - it is because of our eyes - not because of the diamond. Let me trot this image out again which explains why GIA''s Diamond Dock uses lighting that is too bright.

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I have often-used that photo.  And Garry's right about human physiology.

Well-cut diamonds are harder to enjoy all-the-way-through in bright sunlight. This is easy to explain; just like the glass on a window or other reflective surface can be intensely bright (hurtful sometimes) when the sun reflects from it back to your eyes, bright sunlight results in a lot of glare coming from the surface of the diamond. The fire/refraction can be intense too; lots of bold colored flares as Lynn describes. With all the bright input your pupils contract. This nice in one way because they ‘clip’ more dispersed beams of light before they recombine - allowing you to see more color - but as your pupils contract the inner details get darker and you no longer see the natural contrast patterns you may enjoy in diffused and softer light.

In my opinion the best outdoor light to view a well-cut brilliant is under a tree on a bright sunny day with sunlight filtering through the leaves. Your pupils don’t have to squeeze shut so much, so you're able to enjoy beautiful dispersion, less-glaring (but intense) surface reflections and the patterns of contrast brilliance inside the diamond.

Date: 4/13/2009 10:20:38 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Diamonds do not need fluoro to look bad in direct sunlight.
The better the cut, the worse they usually look

Strong words with meaning.

What is also fun is have the diamond in full sun but aim the sparkles into a shadow area and watch the shadows light up and enjoy the show.
John was it you that posted the airplane pics showing this?
Someone else posted pics of it from inside a car.
Kewl stuffs
That is actually one of my favorite ways to play with diamonds.

Date: 4/14/2009 5:26:57 PM
Author: John Pollard
I have often-used that photo. And Garry''s right about human physiology.

Well-cut diamonds are harder to enjoy all-the-way-through in bright sunlight. This is easy to explain; just like the glass on a window or other reflective surface can be intensely bright (hurtful sometimes) when the sun reflects from it back to your eyes, bright sunlight results in a lot of glare coming from the surface of the diamond. The fire/refraction can be intense too; lots of bold colored flares as Lynn describes. With all the bright input your pupils contract. This nice in one way because they ‘clip’ more dispersed beams of light before they recombine - allowing you to see more color - but as your pupils contract the inner details get darker and you no longer see the natural contrast patterns you may enjoy in diffused and softer light.

In my opinion the best outdoor light to view a well-cut brilliant is under a tree on a bright sunny day with sunlight filtering through the leaves. Your pupils don’t have to squeeze shut so much, so you''re able to enjoy beautiful dispersion, less-glaring (but intense) surface reflections and the patterns of contrast brilliance inside the diamond.

I agree.

I am not saying bright sunlight is the best outdoor lighting, and I doubt Wink is either. All we''re saying is, we don''t feel diamonds look "bad" in it per se.

Date: 4/14/2009 5:56:39 PM
Author: strmrdr
What is also fun is have the diamond in full sun but aim the sparkles into a shadow area and watch the shadows light up and enjoy the show.
John was it you that posted the airplane pics showing this?
Someone else posted pics of it from inside a car.
Kewl stuffs
That is actually one of my favorite ways to play with diamonds.

Me too.  I think it was Garry who originally posted plane-shots Karl - but I'll confess to capturing my little 3-grainer putting on a show, below.  Cool way of observing a live slice of ETAS.

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would you guys say that an ideal cut diamond in direct sunlight with a blue sky, may resemble the haziness/oilyness that fluro might cause in a stone?

Date: 4/14/2009 6:27:14 PM
Author: jkc350z
would you guys say that an ideal cut diamond in direct sunlight with a blue sky, may resemble the haziness/oilyness that fluro might cause in a stone?

Mine have never looked oily, and not what I''d call hazy, though I can see where you might think that. I have a stud with strong flo, it looks totally different from my other stones. But from Lynn''s posts here, she thinks so. Here''s a pic of a stone with flo in the sun, mine doesn''t ever look like this.

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fluor.asp

Honestly, I wouldn''t fret about this. The "solution" to this would be to get a stone that looked different in the sun, and wouldn''t look so great in all other situations.

Just enjoy your diamond!

In direct spot lighting environments haze/oiliness/miklyness may be caused by the following.

1. Issues of graining.
2. Issues of graining combined with fluoroescence.
3. Large saturated clouds (even in SI1''s).
4. Dirt on the pavilion.
5. Any combination of these or all of the above.

There are adverse optical effects caused by gemological characteristics that can only be observed in the spot lighting environment and not in diffuse.

As some have expressed, it is a general rule of thumb for the body of ideal cuts to go dark but with strong intense reflections of light (particularly fire). But when the body goes dark *and* hazy there may be more to it than meets the eye. No pun intended.

Well, the HAZY part could maybe just be my [*cough cough*] over-40 eyes!!!    

Seriously, now I''m rethinking if that was the right word.  Definitely not oily or milky-looking, like a flouro stone gone bad . 

Just not my favorite lighting condition, for sure... put me under the tree with John!!!   

Hm, this is interesting. In direct sunlight, my (J with strong blue fluorescence) diamond turns a pretty obvious shade of baby blue and sparkles a lot! I don''t know if it''s the fluorescence or a reflection of the sky, but I personally find this to be one of the most flattering lighting conditions for it. Conversely, in any kind of outdoor shaded environment (under a tree, etc) it just looks like a white rock.

I wonder why my experience would be so different.

Date: 4/14/2009 8:11:21 PM
Author: Lynn B
Well, the HAZY part could maybe just be my [*cough cough*] over-40 eyes!!!

Seriously, now I''m rethinking if that was the right word. Definitely not oily or milky-looking, like a flouro stone gone bad .

Just not my favorite lighting condition, for sure... put me under the tree with John!!!

Yeah really!

My stones don''t have any graining, most don''t have any fluoro and the ones that do are faint and one medium. The clarity on most are in the VS range.

I don''t think we''re talking about the same lighting. Maybe I don''t know what direct means? but there''s no flashes of fire and they don''t go dark. More of a steel type blue and they do look hazy .These are all AGS0 H&A''s or GIA excellents.
Rhino- My K is a VS1 that was in a few of your videos years ago. It''s a gorgeous stone but yeah, it also does the steel looking haze just like the others.