Purchasing a diamond online

[eastwood]

Hello to the Pricescope forum

I am in the market for an engagement ring. My soon-to be fiance does not want a large stone and would be happiest within the 0.25-0.3 carat range. This preference in a conservative size allows me to consider higher quality diamonds. So far I have found that online dealers offer better prices/selection than typical jewellery stores. Also, I think that purchasing the diamond and the setting separately is the best way to get exactly what I want.

Thus, I have been looking for loose diamonds online. I have found a place that seems to be offering their diamonds at a pretty decent price, and I wonder if y''all can offer some advice. I have given the info listed on the "lab report" on one of the diamonds I''m looking at below. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

WEIGHT .26
CLARITY VVS 2
COLOUR D
SHAPE ROUND
MAKE IDEAL
DIMENSIONS 4.12 X 4.14 X 2.51
LAB SARIN REPORT
FLUORESCENCE SLIGHT
PROPORTIONS IDEAL
GIRDLE 1.8% SLIGHTLY THICK
CULET .8% V. SMALL
TABLE WIDTH 56.8%
CROWN HEIGHT 14.2%
PAVILLION DEPTH 43.3%
FINISH GRADE VERY GOOD
SYMMETRY VERY GOOD
Price US$ $531.00

 

[chialea]

Just in case you're curious, I calculate your total depth percentage at 60.8%.

I plugged your numbers into the HCA, and came out with an excellent score, with a lot of fire. Now, angles are more accurate. but this has every chance to be a lovely stone, though you'll need your eyes to make the final judgement.

In terms of colour and clarity -- in that sized diamond, you're not going to be able to see anything in clarity down to VS-2 at all, and most SI-1 stones are going to still be absolutely clean to the naked eye, unless you have incredibly eagle-like vision. It may not be worth spending the extra money for something that you can't see, anyway. Likewise, you can safely move down to an F or G, and it's very unlikely you'll be able to see the difference at all. It may be worth saving a bit of money, or moving up to a slightly larger diamond in that range she likes.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

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On 8/14/2004 11:40:03 AM eastwood wrote:

Hello to the Pricescope forum

Also, I think that purchasing the diamond and the setting separately is the best way to get exactly what I want.

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Hi Clint,
In my experience, trying to get someone to sell you a setting without the diamond, leaves A lot of responsibility on you that would normaly rest upon the seller's shoulders - like, what happens if the stone is damaged during setting?

 

[digitring]

I totally agree! It seems that most of the first time buyers are very easy to forget the importance of the mounting craftmanship. They trend to focus on the quality of the center stone. I know it's very convenience to select your diamond stone and select a ring setting, but if you have a bad mounting craftmanship, it really make your final e-ring looks very cheesy. Couple friends of mine are suffering this. Definitely not a pleasant experience.

 

[eastwood]

Should I be concerned because this place offers a Sarin report instead of an independant appraisal report such as GIA? I have read that smaller diamonds are not usually sent for independant appraisal. Should this be a show stopper or is the Sarin report reliable and give me all the details I require?

 

[sheckrock]

Yes you should.

I'm no expert, but I have read a lot about synthetic diamonds. They are getting more an more like the real diamonds every day. They are even being researched to possibly replace the semiconductor wafers used to make integrated circuits. If there is no cert, the fact is it could very well be a synthetic stone.

There is another problem though, the jeweler probably doesn't have a cert for the stone because as you say, smaller diamonds are not usually sent for independant appraisal. Did you go to look at stones in a store? Maybe you could sacrific color/clarity for a higher carat range.

From my understanding the sarin report only gives angle/depth/table measurements, etc, but this does not tell you if the stone is really a VVS2 or D color.

Besides, even if it did (which I don't think it does), anyone can change a lens or a calibration on the sarin machines to get a better rating on the diamond, than what it really should be.

If you don't get a certification, you might as well buy a synthetic stone instead.

 

[pearcrazy]

If you don't mind telling, are you using a Pricescope vendor? If so then I really don't think you have to worry about getting a "synthetic diamond". None of them are going to risk their reputations trying to pull the wool over your eyes. I'm a little confused as to what is meant by a synthetic diamond. Does that mean lab created or is that like a Moissanite which isn't diamond at all but a completely different material. Either way I don't think any vendor here would try to pass it off as a natural diamond, lab certificate or not.

You may want to consider choosing another stone that has a lab grading certificate like GIA or EGL if you are concerned. I don't think I've ever seen a diamond with so much information provided about cut and angles without a lab certificate.

 

[sheckrock]

I never said that any vendor here would try to pass a synthetic stone off as a natural diamond, lab certificate or not.

Read these articles below:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html?pg=2

 

[pearcrazy]

Yes, Shekrock, I know you didn't say that any vendors here would try to pass off a synthetic diamond. Eastwood said he'd been looking at an online site, that's why I asked who it was and assured him that if the online vendor was a PS vendor he could feel confident that he was getting the real deal. If he's talking E-bay, then it's anyone's guess as to what he may be getting.

I've read the article on the Gemesis diamonds before. Unless something has changed, they were mostly mass producing fancy colored diamonds. I've also surfed into sites offering the "cultured diamonds" and I don't find their prices all that great to be honest. You didn't specify what you meant by synthetic diamonds. Thus my question about Moissanite. The cultured diamonds are similar in analogy to cultured pearls. They are of the same material as natural diamonds but produced in a lab instead of mother earth.

All that aside, the price seems just a little low for the color and clarity he listed. It could be for the very reason that the stone doesn't carry a lab grading. I'm still curious who the vendor is.

 

[sheckrock]

okay, it looks like the Gemesis stones are mostly in color. But what about the apollo stones made using Chemical vapor deposition? If you take a look at the last page (page 6) of the article it shows the way the yellow Gemesis stones are made vs the CVD stones, wherein the CVD stones look colorless to me.

The article goes on to tell how these CVD stones are made at cost of $5 per carat!

"At the moment, the company is producing 10-millimeter wafers but predicts it will reach an inch square by year's end and 4 inches in five years. The price per carat: about $5.
Back at the Diamond High Council, I open the film canister and shake the Apollo stones onto the table. Van Royen tentatively picks one up with a pair of elongated tweezers and takes it to a microscope. "Unbelievable," he says slowly as he peers through the lens. "May I study it?" I agree to let him keep the gems overnight. When we meet the next morning in the lobby of the High Council, Van Royen looks tired. He admits to staying up almost all night scrutinizing the stones. "I think I can identify it," he says hopefully. "It's too perfect to be natural. Things in nature, they have flaws. The growth structure of this diamond is flawless."

article is @wired.com

 

[pearcrazy]

It stands to reason that if they can produce a 5$ a carat imposter then the real money would be in selling 1-2 carat and larger stones. Why bother with a .25 carat stone and all the labor and expense involved in cutting it, polishing it and producing a Sarin report etc? It seems a little farfetched to me. I think that the day may come where the market gets flooded with lab created diamonds, I'm not sure we're that close yet.

 

[fancycoloredfan]

I know that it doesn't cost $5 to make the gemesis diamonds. I have one myself and talked to not only the retailer I purchased it from but the manufacturer. Even if making the diamond is inexpensive, the diamond still has to be cut. Are you telling me that sending the diamond somewhere to be cut (like a round, H&A) is $5? No way. The shipping alone is $15-$20 to send it to the guy to cut.

Anyhow, I don't see why going w/ a 0.25 ct. diamond w/out a cert is so bad. Most labs consider stones below 0.33 to be melee, so if there was a "cert" w/ it, it might be a diamond dossier. It costs several $100's to grade a stone and issue a cert, so if the stone cost $530, trust me, the cert will jack up the price. Just keep that in mind...i highly highly doubt someone is trying to trick you.
--Ariana

 

[denverappraiser]

Eastwood,

Welcome to Pricescope. Sarin reports are helpful but they don’t contain the same information that you will find on a GIA or EGL report. This isn’t really a fair comparison. If you are planning on getting an appraisal on the final ring, something that most people do, you might consider selecting your appraiser soon. You can take them the diamond to examine before it’s mounted in order to assure yourself that it is genuine and of the quality described. After the stone is set, they should be able to include that data in their final report for you and your insurance company.

As fancycoloredfan points out, a lab grading report would represent a significant portion of the value of your stone. It’s not surprising that this was not done in advance and I would not be alarmed by it. The difference between a VVS1 and a VS1 clarity grade is important and if you don’t feel confident enough to make this distinction yourself, you should consider getting the assistance of an expert early enough in the process that you still have return privileges.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver