Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut check

[vtjt]

I have not been searching for diamonds very long, but have been using information gathered from other posts here to refine my searching. In discussion with a consultant at Whiteflash, I've been steered toward this stone as a possible purchase.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3265519.htm

Full info about diamond below. From the numbers and what I can tell based on limited understanding of IS, Aset and H&A images, this is a good diamond. Not perfect, but for the money, it's a good value stone that will make my girlfriend very happy. But I need a gut check before I can make a decision.

Would anyone be able to help me objectively evaluate this stone? Is this a good investment or am I rushing into something I shouldn't? Can I do better, or should I pounce on this?

I am looking for a round stone in the .9 ct range. If I could get north of 1 ct I would, but I am not willing to trade size for quality. I want the best quality cut I can get in a budget that realistically has a ceiling around $5500.

Please help if you can -- all input is graciously appreciated. Thank you for your time!

AGS report: http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104074953009-PLDQRH.PDF

PRICE: ~$5300
Cut: Ideal AGS
Clarity: VS1
0.907 Carats
Color: I
HCA Score: 1.2

Ideal polish & Ideal symmetry
Thin to Medium Girdle
Negligible Fluorescence

Depth % 61.4
Table % 56.8
Crown Angle 34.1
Star 52.0
Pavilion Angle 40.9
Crown % 14.6
Lower Girdle % 75.0
Measurements 6.21x6.23x3.83
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence Negligible
Girdle Thin to Medium Faceted

 

[tyty333]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

I think its a lovely stone and going to be hard to pick apart. You could ask WF why it missed ACA. I would say the H&A view does not
look like it's up to ACA standards but it doesnt look that far off.

Edit - this is the only one at JA that compares to it. Up in color (2 steps) but down two steps in clarity.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.92-carat-g-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-470841

 

[vtjt]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

I did inquire about why it missed ACA. My WF rep said that it only missed ACA because one of the hearts was slightly smaller than the rest. She said this was a technicality that does not negligibly impact the performance of the diamond.

She actually steered me toward this Expert Selection stone vs several other similarly-sized but more expensive ACA options, because she considered this a better value stone. (This one was VS1, while the other ACA's were SI1 and she said although they met the standard for eye clean, the inclusions were visible with the naked eye at 6". On this one she needed a loupe to see the inclusions, and even then she had to work at it.)

Does that make sense/sound reasonable?

Is this a good price for the quality?

Thank you for your input!

 

[tyty333]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

I did inquire about why it missed ACA. My WF rep said that it only missed ACA because one of the hearts was slightly smaller than the rest. She said this was a technicality that does not negligibly impact the performance of the diamond.

She actually steered me toward this Expert Selection stone vs several other similarly-sized but more expensive ACA options, because she considered this a better value stone. (This one was VS1, while the other ACA's were SI1 and she said although they met the standard for eye clean, the inclusions were visible with the naked eye at 6". On this one she needed a loupe to see the inclusions, and even then she had to work at it.)

Does that make sense/sound reasonable?

Is this a good price for the quality?

Thank you for your input!

Yes, I think it's an excellent stone for the price. It barely misses ACA and it doesnt get much better than that! I think you have
done your homework. Picking an Expert Selection usually still gets you a really nice stone without taking the extra hit of paying
for an ACA.

 

[vtjt]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

OK, that is a relief! Thank you so much for your time tyty333!

It seems like a lot of folks here spend a lot of time searching for the right stone. I was worried I was overlooking something wrong with this stone, or spending too much $$ for what I am getting with it. I think what gives me pause is how quickly we found this stone.

I really have only been searching in detail for about a week, and largely confined the search to WF inventory -- since WF seems to provide the most details and images about their in-house inventory, compared to other vendors. Should I lose sleep that I have not comparison shopped as much with other vendors? Or can I rest easy that I'm getting a good value with WF?

By all the recommendations I have found here on Pricescope, this stone seemed to fit the bill. I just didn't know if I was overlooking something by making a snap decision.

I notice on the Aset for this stone that there is that one spot on the edge around the 4 o'clock position that has more green than the rest of the stone. The WF rep says this is not visible to the naked eye, and is caused by that one smaller heart. Is this reputable advice/anything to be concerned about? I can't really distinguish the smaller heart that the WF rep mentioned. Can you spot it?

How much is a WF ACA (or near miss, like this one) worth, compared to other options out there? Am I overpaying for a high WF rating, compared to anything else I can get elsewhere? Or is this a wise purchase?

When you say the only comparable James Allen stone is the one you linked, by what measure(s) are you comparing? Angles? Or overall value? Since we can't see imaging for this James Allen stone, what are you grading it against?

 

[tyty333]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

When you say the only comparable James Allen stone is the one you linked, by what measure(s) are you comparing? Angles? Or overall value? Since we can't see imaging for this James Allen stone, what are you grading it against?

Virtually the same size (JA is a little larger),
both AGS000 stones,
JA color is up 2 grades but down 2 grades in clarity (one of the cleanest looking SI1s I've seen in a long time),
JA is a"True Hearts" stone while the WF stone is very close (so I consider these equal because WF is very strict),
JA stone is about $250 cheaper (close enough where I wouldnt let the cost sway me one way or the other).

We really need an idealscope of the JA stone to do a little more comparison but...from the things I listed they seem very close.

So as far as value, the WF stone is fairly close to the JA stone. Are you asking if its a good deal as far as what you are getting...
well you can get other stones that are cheaper but you may not have all the images/AGS reports, etc. to make you feel comfortable
that you have a decent stone.

So here is another .9 I VS1...
its not H&A,
its angles are not as good as what you have,
its a VS1 but it has what looks like a carbon spot on the table at 7ish oclock,
but it will save you some money...$4370
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.90-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-464493

It depends what you priorities are. You can go cheaper if you aren't so strict on the cut. I would not recommend this stone.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

I think it looks like a great choice and the only way you'd get a better stone is to choose an ACA! Honestly, I doubt you could tell it apart if you put an identical ACA next to it, so it is a very nice option! I like WF's trade-in policy as well, and have bought from them multiple times.

 

[vtjt]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

Gotcha tyty333 -- I follow. Thanks. And thanks also diamondseeker2006! A few more questions for you...

You can go cheaper if you aren't so strict on the cut.

Are my standards (for cut) reasonable? I am not looking to go cheaper just to save money. If I relaxed my standards for cut quality (or clarity -- although as long as eye-clean, clarity is less important to me), I would want to make it up in carat weight to get over 1 ct, just because for some people (not me necessarily) that number seems to matter.

Based on my research here, my top criteria has been cut quality, because that seems to be the top driver in diamond performance. But as I get closer to a decision, I now have a whole bunch of family members and friends in my ear, warning me that the 1 ct threshold really does matter, and that I should get over 1 ct or I might regret it later!

So now that I am confident that this is a good stone, I am trying to do my due diligence and get some validation that I've prioritized the right things in selecting this stone.

I feel like going after additional carat weight is chasing a number just for the sake of "bragging rights", and that with a constrained budget, a premium cut (from a reputable vendor providing validated info) delivers a bigger bang for my buck than a few fractions of a gram in carat weight. Am I right in saying that?

Could I find a larger 1 ct stone at an acceptable-enough quality for the same $5500-6000 budget? Or are the tradeoffs not worth it, and am I on the right track with the stone I shared above?

Are you asking if its a good deal as far as what you are getting... well you can get other stones that are cheaper but you may not have all the images/AGS reports, etc. to make you feel comfortable that you have a decent stone.

Should images and AGS reports be as important to me as I feel like they are? How can I know I'm getting a good stone otherwise? Between the search engine here on PS, and other myriad online retailers, I can find tons of diamonds that are cheaper and/or bigger and seem to have the right angles/measurements, but don't have any IS, Aset, H&A etc images to defend them. Should I be more comfortable with these options than I am?

 

[pfunk]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

Gotcha tyty333 -- I follow. Thanks. And thanks also diamondseeker2006! A few more questions for you...

You can go cheaper if you aren't so strict on the cut.

Are my standards (for cut) reasonable? I am not looking to go cheaper just to save money. If I relaxed my standards for cut quality (or clarity -- although as long as eye-clean, clarity is less important to me), I would want to make it up in carat weight to get over 1 ct, just because for some people (not me necessarily) that number seems to matter.

Based on my research here, my top criteria has been cut quality, because that seems to be the top driver in diamond performance. But as I get closer to a decision, I now have a whole bunch of family members and friends in my ear, warning me that the 1 ct threshold really does matter, and that I should get over 1 ct or I might regret it later!

So now that I am confident that this is a good stone, I am trying to do my due diligence and get some validation that I've prioritized the right things in selecting this stone.

I feel like going after additional carat weight is chasing a number just for the sake of "bragging rights", and that with a constrained budget, a premium cut (from a reputable vendor providing validated info) delivers a bigger bang for my buck than a few fractions of a gram in carat weight. Am I right in saying that?

Could I find a larger 1 ct stone at an acceptable-enough quality for the same $5500-6000 budget? Or are the tradeoffs not worth it, and am I on the right track with the stone I shared above?

Are you asking if its a good deal as far as what you are getting... well you can get other stones that are cheaper but you may not have all the images/AGS reports, etc. to make you feel comfortable that you have a decent stone.

Should images and AGS reports be as important to me as I feel like they are? How can I know I'm getting a good stone otherwise? Between the search engine here on PS, and other myriad online retailers, I can find tons of diamonds that are cheaper and/or bigger and seem to have the right angles/measurements, but don't have any IS, Aset, H&A etc images to defend them. Should I be more comfortable with these options than I am?

Hey OP,

I was recently in your shoes so maybe I can shed some light on my experiences. To answer your last question, I say yes. You can be fairly confident in performance by looking at the numbers if you are only looking at a narrow range of what is considered an ideal cut. If you make sure the angles complement each other, the HCA score is very close to or preferably under 2, and you have excellent symmetry I am confident you will find the diamond to be lovely.

You will find that there are a lot of industry members and consumers here that are very concerned with precision cutting. It is without a doubt what makes diamonds as beautiful as they can be and that is why cut should be an important factor in your decision. Having said that, EVERYONE has their own situation and must weight the different factors according to what will make them and their significant other happy. That is why you need to make sure you buy according to what YOU want, and not let anyone tell you otherwise. Cut is important so spend what you can towards cut, but do not fear that you will end up with a dud if you stick to ideal numbers. The geometry of the stone is what matters, and if cut to ideal proprtions it can't magically become an ugly diamond that doesn't follow the rules of physics. This is assuming there aren't other things going on that can detract from beauty, such as transparency issues.

Buy from a vendor who you can trust and ask them for as much info on any stones you may consider. Hopefully you can get the images that will give you extra peace of mind, but in the case that they don't it doesnt mean the diamond isn't beautiful. And buy from someone with an unconditional return period. If you don't find it beautiful, it's easy to return. I returned one in my search and it was painless.

I'll try to look around at some other options later on, but that one you posted here is certainly going to be beautiful.

 

[pfunk]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

Here are a couple that get you up over the carat mark and then some, that also have a bunch of images, and are fairly high clarity as well. Make sure to register and apply the coupon code "pricescope" to get the discounted price displayed.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R107-TA7ZZQ

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R112-AK9MBY

I'll look some more later and to a pricescope search to check other vendors. This was just a search at enchanted because I can quickly sort the diamonds there by cut score and look at the 100 score diamonds only.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

Those ED stones look good as long as you don't care about a trade-in policy. They aren't ACA level, but they should be very nice diamonds. I do not advise buying a diamond without images, because I have seen a diamond posted just today that had good numbers but not a great ASET. I think these two have computer generated images which are not as accurate as real idealscope/ASET images, but it is better than none.

 

[vtjt]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

Pfunk -- many thanks for this input and advice! And diamondseeker2006, thanks for vetting the ED stones too. I appreciate both your help!

The trade-in policy is not a concern... we're dealing with a pretty sentimental woman who I seriously doubt will ever part with a stone once given to her.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R107-TA7ZZQ

Looking at this 1.07ct example you gave, I see that it scores a 1.1 on the HCA tool. The price is reasonable, the Idealscope looks fine, and the angles look good. What's not to like?

However, when I look at the Aset (even if computer generated), I see a lot of green -- less intensity of light returned -- compared to the 0.907 WF stone in the original post.


I know that's a tradeoff I'd make going for bigger weight vs quality without a big price bump. But assuming getting over 1 ct avoids any potential pangs of regret and size envy by my better half in future years... that MIGHT be worth it...

My question is, in real life, how noticeable is this drop in quality going to be? ... Can I get away with this safely, as a layperson who will never look at this stone under a loupe or microscope, and give it to a woman even less inclined to do so? Or by doing so, am I doing serious damage to the brilliance and performance that I should think twice about before making such a tradeoff?

In other words, where do you draw the line??!!?

Here's another similar stone I found on Blue Nile. No images -- which for me, like diamondseeker2006, feels like a concern -- but the numbers and angles look good and the HCA is 1.1:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD05200187

Thoughts?

Many thanks all. Very much appreciated.

 

[pfunk]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

I'd definitely take the ED stone over blue nile. That clarity plot is a lot busier and you give up quite a bit in diameter. Plus, you have all that info on the ED stone that you won't get from bluenile. The blue nile stone is probably a good diamond too but I'd take the better clarity and size increase for the couple hundred more dollars for sure. Plus ED has free return shipping if for some reason you don't like it.

As far as your other questions, I really can't decide that for you. Will you see less intense light return where the green is on the ASET? I doubt it, but I don't know. Do you think you'd notice an area of less brightness on the Whiteflash stone where the green is? If you notice on one you'll notice it on the other. I think unless you are looking for it and you know what to look for, you won't notice at all. ESPECIALLY if you dont have a diamond with the perfect red ASET next to it.

Will you notice the 0.4 mm size increase? That I am almost positive you could see, as i could easily see the 0.25 mm size difference between the two I compared.

Either are going to be beautiful. I know what I would choose because I know what my gal prefers, but you need to weigh what you think yours will prefer. She isn't going to care about reds and greens and ASET and crown/pavilion angles. She is gonna care about how it looks, and in that regard you can't pick a loser here. Both are cut better than the great majority of the diamonds that most women are wearing.

 

[vtjt]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

Pfunk, you have given me a lot to chew on tonight. I hear ya loud and clear. Thanks for the candid steering here.

I am going to sleep on this, and call my WF rep tomorrow and talk it out. She has been really great with me, and helped me find the absolute perfect setting... so I still want to work with her at least in that respect. Oh boy. Wonder if WF can order this stone in via their virtual selection or something. I feel bad leaving her at the altar here, so to speak!

 

[pfunk]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

I understand for sure. You definitely appreciate the help these vendors give. At the same time, it's a business and there is competition and they get it. It's all about you and what works best for you. Look forward to hearing what you decide on!

 

[vtjt]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

Hi all,

I wanted to follow up on this thread with a success story! After some discussion with my rep at Whiteflash, Becca (highly recommended!), I settled on a stone.

I opted for a larger stone than the one I originally posted -- I decided it was worth it to spend a little more to get north of a carat. The stone I settled on was similar to the ED stone suggested above by PFunk, however, the one I went with was a Whiteflash stone, a 1.034ct J VS2 ACA. I went with the Whiteflash stone because the setting we wanted was a Whiteflash style, so it made sense to keep the diamond purchase in house if possible. We were able to find a stone that met my needs and wants.

Photos of the final stone and ring below for your entertainment!

Special thanks to PFunk, tyty333 and diamondseeker2006 for their help above, and to the rest of the community for the rest of the content I found here that was so helpful. This is a great site!





Thanks again!

 

[telephone89]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

Very nice! Cant wait to see hand shots

 

[pfunk]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

Looks great and thanks for sharing!

 

[tyty333]

Re: Please help me pick this stone apart! Rookie needs gut c

Turned out beautiful!!!