------Please help me choose between 2 round brilliants--------

[pkwon]

Hello Everyone,

I''ve been on this forum learning for a month now Thank you for all the wonderful info. I have also seen it help a lot of people, so hopefully I can get some help also?

I''ve narrowed it down to these last two GIA round brilliants and I know that my girl will be happy with either, but I just want to make sure that I make the right decision. I have to choose soon so can the experts please consult and help me?

Both are Excellently cut and have I color. I''m trying to compromise clarity for size. And I would like to keep the larger stone, but I am concerned with GIA''s comments on the SI1 "twinning wisps and surface graining not shown".

#1 - smaller carat w/ higher clarity
Carat: .94
Clarity: VS1
Color: I
Cut: Excellent
Depth: 62.2
Table: 58.0
Dimensions: 6.23 x 6.27x 3.89
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry:Very Good
Girdle: medium
comments: none
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-ideal-cut-i-color-vs1-clarity_LD01457092#grading_report


#2 - larger stone w/ lower clarity
Carat: 1.05
Clarity: SI1
Color: I
Cut: Excellent
Depth: 60.9
Table: 59.0
Dimensions: 6.58 x 6.53 x 3.99
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry:Excellent
Girldle: Thin to Med
Comments: "twinning wisps and surface graining not shown"

http://www.solomonbrothers.com/certs//IR441145.gif


I appreciate the help and advice!!!

Regards,

PK

 

[jet2ks]

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-ideal-cut-i-color-vs1-clarity_LD01457092#grading_report

http://www.solomonbrothers.com/certs//IR441145.gif

Of the two, I much prefer the numbers and proportions on the second stone. The first is what we would term a steep/deep--the angles are too steep to compliment each other and it will most likely leak light as a result. My only concern with the second stone is whether or not it is eye-clean. Depending on who is holding the stone right now, Solomon Brothers may be able to ask about that--all you can do is call. I wouldn''t worry about the comments. If those were an issue they would either be included in the inclusion plot or it would mention that they are the reason for the clarity grade. GIA includes the comments for completeness.

 

[pkwon]

Thanks Jet~
Wow I wasn''t really looking deeper into the cuts of the two choices as GIA labeled both "excellent" and made me confident in the cut area. I am going to look a more into the steep/deep angles. Maybe I shoudln''t even consider the 1st choice at all because I''m paying a premium for this excellent cut that has leakage?

As for the
SI1, the representative told me that it is eye clean, which I though meant only from the top view. Should I be able to see inclusions from the side and bottom with an SI1?

 

[jet2ks]

Date: 7/27/2009 6:25:06 PM
Author: pkwon
Thanks Jet~
Wow I wasn't really looking deeper into the cuts of the two choices as GIA labeled both 'excellent' and made me confident in the cut area. I am going to look a more into the steep/deep angles. Maybe I shoudln't even consider the 1st choice at all because I'm paying a premium for this excellent cut that has leakage?

As for the
SI1, the representative told me that it is eye clean, which I though meant only from the top view. Should I be able to see inclusions from the side and bottom with an SI1?

I would pass on the first one--there are too many well cut diamonds out there just waiting for a good home. GIA's Excellent cut rating is a little wider than many prefer and includes some combinations that just don't perform well--mainly steep/deeps.

I don't know what criteria the rep was using for eye-clean, you might want to ask. Diamonds are graded for clarity face-up at 10x magnification, sometimes inclusions are not visible without magnificaion from any angle, sometimes an inclusion is visible from the side or pavillion that is not from the top. Consider the setting you want first, if you will not be able to see the side of the diamond very well, face up eye-clean is fine. If the setting is more open on the side, you will want a diamond that is eye-clean from the side as well as the top. Also specify what viewing distance. Usually something in the realm of 8-10 inches is good, as that is about as close as someone would view a ring and still be able to get their eyes to focus.

 

[Lorelei]

Jet offers excellent advice, nothing more to add.

 

[pkwon]

Thank you Jet and also to Lorelei, I could have made a big mistake if I chose #1.

Okay, I just got off the phone with Solomon Bro representative and he states that the #2 stone is eye clean from any distance. So I guess I will have to check for myself if I can see anything when it arrives today or tomorrow.

Is there something I can do to make sure its a very clean SI1? And how can I with an untrained eye look into the comment of "twinning wisp and surface grading not shown"?




And since this stone has a return policy, you all have motivated me to keep looking.
Are these the right steps to judge a cut and not get stuck with a steep/deep?

Step 1 - look if they fit the American ideal measurements in this forum.
My #2 diamond fits the ideal cut, except for its avg pavillian angle of 41. Is this a bad thing?

Step 2 - check the HCA grade
My #2 diamond got a 1.8

Light Return - Excellent
Fire - Very Good
Scintillation - Very Good
Spread or diameter for weight - Very Good

Thank you all very much.

This site is pretty addicting and so is learning about diamonds.

PK

 

[Stone-cold11]

Best to have images at the very least.

Use the HCA, once it score below a 2, look at/request for the Idealscope/ASET images.

 

[John P]

Grading reports give only averaged numbers. For example, "pavilion angle" represents 8 separate measurements. Depending on cut consistency those 8 pavilion main facets might be cut near the number given - or the 8 measurements could range far enough apart to cause some loss in light return. This is a downside of simple report information; the CA, PA, star and lower half numbers are averages of 8-16 measurements apiece. On GIA reports those numbers are further rounded a bit.

In a live viewing world the fine nuances in optics and/or precision can be observed. However on the internet there is no way to interpret how much variation exists from just a grading report.

A reflector image of the actual diamond, such as an Ideal-Scope or ASET photo, would allow us to interpret light return and cut consistency - how the diamond actually appears in one 3D view. A grading report only provides a "chalk outline" which is useful in a macro sense, but does not reveal fine details of performance or precision.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/28/2009 12:19:59 PM
Author: pkwon
Thank you Jet and also to Lorelei, I could have made a big mistake if I chose #1.

Okay, I just got off the phone with Solomon Bro representative and he states that the #2 stone is eye clean from any distance. So I guess I will have to check for myself if I can see anything when it arrives today or tomorrow.

Is there something I can do to make sure its a very clean SI1? And how can I with an untrained eye look into the comment of 'twinning wisp and surface grading not shown'? As these are "not shown" then they are unlikely to be an issue, check with the vendor to make absolutely sure the diamond is eyeclean to your standards.




And since this stone has a return policy, you all have motivated me to keep looking.
Are these the right steps to judge a cut and not get stuck with a steep/deep? Generally the HCA will alert you, aim to score below 2 and you should avoid the majority of the steep deeps.

Step 1 - look if they fit the American ideal measurements in this forum.
My #2 diamond fits the ideal cut, except for its avg pavillian angle of 41. Is this a bad thing? If the crown angle fits well then a 41 degree PA can be fine, going much over 41 degrees though even with a compensatory shallow crown angle can sometimes mean leakage and also colour entrapment in lower colour grades so I would suggest initially keeping pavilion angles between 40.6 - 41 degrees.

Step 2 - check the HCA grade
My #2 diamond got a 1.8 Looks good, see if you can get an Idealscope or ASET image as the next step.

Light Return - Excellent
Fire - Very Good
Scintillation - Very Good
Spread or diameter for weight - Very Good

Thank you all very much.

This site is pretty addicting and so is learning about diamonds.

PK

 

[pkwon]

You all are great.

Wow, diamonds are really fascinating, I had no idea how many measurements go into these.

Although, the Solomon Bros are nice and have quick responses, they told me that they aren''t set up to provide me with Idealscope/ASET images. Should I only be a customer with a dealer that provides these images?

Also, the #2 diamond in question is setup to arrive tomorrow or the next day, so should I take it to a jeweler and get a first hand opinion or appraisal? And how much would this cost for a professional to analyze the light leakage or give me a set of images to post? I can buy the kit myself online, but I don''t think its worth it to invest in equipment for this diamond.

Thank you for your feedback.

 

[Stone-cold11]

You can buy one cheaply here, at less than 1% of the price of the stone. http://ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp Think that is a good investment.

Seems like you already bought it, it could be good but best to have it check out by an independent appraiser, since you will need it for insurance purposes anyway. Find one near you using this link. https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx Images are to confirm if you cannot see it yourself. An appraisal will be around $100 depending on the who you use and what you want in the appraisal.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/28/2009 1:46:12 PM
Author: pkwon
You all are great.

Wow, diamonds are really fascinating, I had no idea how many measurements go into these.

Although, the Solomon Bros are nice and have quick responses, they told me that they aren't set up to provide me with Idealscope/ASET images. Should I only be a customer with a dealer that provides these images? Its up to your comfort level, personally I always prefer images but if you aren't concerned and you are covered with a return policy then fine. You can buy your own IS relatively inexpensively here.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=2&ShowAdd=Y

Also, the #2 diamond in question is setup to arrive tomorrow or the next day, so should I take it to a jeweler and get a first hand opinion or appraisal? And how much would this cost for a professional to analyze the light leakage or give me a set of images to post? I can buy the kit myself online, but I don't think its worth it to invest in equipment for this diamond. As above if you buy your own IS it is quite easy to interpret the images, see this page.

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

If you wanted to also get an independant appraisal you could do so. See here for appraisers tool

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

Thank you for your feedback.