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Oval ASET pictures... help!

k5678

Rough_Rock
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Feb 4, 2015
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I came across a few ASET images of oval diamonds and need some feedback. I know lisuch as blue in the bow tie area would be bad. But some one has blue tint over what appears to be the table...what does this mean? Any feedback about that and about the other images would be much appreciated! :)



P.S. I know I need to call GOG for my best outcome... and I probably will,(Although I may stick with the local jeweler due to longer interest free financing.. but that is beyond the point) but first I am trying to educate myself as much as possible about oval diamonds.

img_20150225_154613306.jpg

img_20150225_154908901_hdr.jpg

img_20150225_0.jpg
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Can you give us links to the stones? I'm thinking the first one may be ok?

Oval Asets never look good.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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k5678|1424968372|3838517 said:
Here are the links... I found that a couple other diamonds had a similar ASET to the first on that has the blueish tint on the table...It's hard to tell in the pictures if it has a big effect. Thanks in advance for the feedback!

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/O123-AFESCR

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/O150-RKBEZY

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/O151-EWXDJU

I like the second one out of these 3. It does have a bow-tie but it looks like a bright bow tie and not a leaky one.

Can you order it and view it at home to make sure it fits the bill?

Edit - I dont feel like any of these stones are top of the line ovals.
 

k5678

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Ok thanks! Man, searching for a good oval isn't easy! I have a feeling my local jeweler probably isn't an oval expert but we are giving him a chance to bring in a few. Will take pictures and video
 

JoshuaNiamehr

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k5678|1425492570|3841787 said:
How about this one?

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/O150-S2ME43


Also, I thought a cut grade with ovals was pretty much obsolete... Why does ED give a numbered cut score to each diamond? Is the numbered cut score something to consider?

Our cut score numbers are predictive light performance+beauty scores - the higher the score (out of 100) the more likely it will have a minimal bow tie (in our opinion/experience/research)


Here is a pretty great ASET reference chart, scroll down for Ovals: http://beyond4cs.com/2014/12/aset-reference-charts/
 

tyty333

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You can start with the 100s and then start weeding from there. ED is pretty liberal with their 100 scores. There are lots of stones
with very little red in the aset that score 100 at least in the cushions. I've also seen ovals with dark bow-ties scoring 100s. So, you
still have to be diligent.
 

JoshuaNiamehr

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tyty333|1425516208|3841998 said:
You can start with the 100s and then start weeding from there. ED is pretty liberal with their 100 scores. There are lots of stones
with very little red in the aset that score 100 at least in the cushions. I've also seen ovals with dark bow-ties scoring 100s. So, you
still have to be diligent.

I wouldnt agree that its liberal - its actually really mean to diamonds ;-) But I do agree, its meant to be used as a guideline/helper tool in helping you weed out poor makes in our virtual inventory, quickly.

How are you defining dark bow ties? Lots of blue, green or red in the center? Some polishers today are changing their techniques to kill off bow-ties and making the area commonly referred to as a bow-tie, very brilliant, its been quite exciting to watch the recent evolution of Oval Brilliant's. I do tend to love certain Oval facet arrangements over others - I wish the GIA did a better job of differentiating between all the varying facet arrangements beyond the plot diagram.

Also "crushed ice" cushions might be what you are referring to - but that is an issue with the facet arrangement of crushed ice cushions in general. Would you agree? They are all around poor performers, so if you're comparing it to a non-crushed ice cushion - it will be dull in comparison. I personally dislike crushed ice cushions very much as many do in this forum from what Ive learned. Which is another reason I wish GIA differentiated between the various facet arrangements way better than they do now :(
 

Rockdiamond

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HI Joshua,
Can you please explain what "crushed ice" is?
How are they "poor performers"?
If you consider them poor performers, do you still offer them?
If so, how do they score on your "secret sauce" system?
 

JoshuaNiamehr

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Rockdiamond|1425522116|3842035 said:
HI Joshua,
Can you please explain what "crushed ice" is?
How are they "poor performers"?
If you consider them poor performers, do you still offer them?
If so, how do they score on your "secret sauce" system?

There are a few facet arrangements that consumers peg as crushed ice, this one seems to be the most prevalent:


They perform poorly because of the arrangement of their facets, however a poor make can perform more poorly than a better make in the same style of facet arrangement. Our algorithm reflects that, a lower score predicts and indicates more light leakage than a higher scored diamond in the same facet arrangement.

We offer a very large portion of the spot diamond market (by my estimations the majority) as a resource to help the general public find values and the ability to compare and contrast what is out there.

I offer my opinion on what I believe is beautiful as a diamond dealer and as a young jewelry designer, but I believe beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A large number of consumers like that facet arrangement, its my job to make sure they are educated on all the options, all of the facet arrangements, not to tell them what is or isnt beautiful - I can offer an opinion and thats about it, would you agree?

screen_shot_2015-03-04_at_1.png
 

Rockdiamond

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Hi Joshua,
Yes of course!
Here's the issue with the title of "crushed ice"
There's really no set definition.
General definition- a lot of smaller flashes - sometimes also called "pinfire" versus larger, less numerous flashes.
Terming either type of cut a "poor performer" is certainly anyone's right.
But there's great and horrible examples of both.
And performance is inexorably tied to a person's taste and choice of priorities.
I have always advocated a more balanced discussion of each type of cutting style.

Part of the reason there's been questions about a "cut grade score" (aside from GIA or AGSL cut grading) is that consumers are routinely given the totally correct advice of " you can't select a fancy shape by numbers- or a GIA plot"
For example, there's are GIA facet diagrams that are more likely to produce the smaller more numerous flash effect- but there is no direct correlation allowing someone to know what the optical performance of the diamond is based on the GIA plot diagram, or measurements.
Even though leakage is actually a beneficial aspect of many Cushion, Oval, Rectangulat Modified Brilliant stones, you can't ascertain if the stone has a balanced leakage pattern from the GIA plot
 

JoshuaNiamehr

Shiny_Rock
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Rockdiamond|1425525124|3842060 said:
Hi Joshua,
Yes of course!
Here's the issue with the title of "crushed ice"
There's really no set definition.
General definition- a lot of smaller flashes - sometimes also called "pinfire" versus larger, less numerous flashes.
Terming either type of cut a "poor performer" is certainly anyone's right.
But there's great and horrible examples of both.
And performance is inexorably tied to a person's taste and choice of priorities.
I have always advocated a more balanced discussion of each type of cutting style.

Part of the reason there's been questions about a "cut grade score" (aside from GIA or AGSL cut grading) is that consumers are routinely given the totally correct advice of " you can't select a fancy shape by numbers- or a GIA plot"
For example, there's are GIA facet diagrams that are more likely to produce the smaller more numerous flash effect- but there is no direct correlation allowing someone to know what the optical performance of the diamond is based on the GIA plot diagram.

Agreed, I pray daily for the industry to come up with better naming conventions for the various facet arrangements so both tradesmen and consumers can have a much easier time differentiating.

Alas, I didnt come up with the naming conventions consumers have bestowed upon the varying cushion cuts, I only use them to speak their language. Diamond dealers on the trading platforms have begun using the term (I find that hilarious)...

Light performance is a term that is continuing to be defined and quantified - if I had a crystal ball - I would tell you exactly how the trade and consumers will quantify it - but my gut tells me that machine repeatable and physical measurements will be the standard. I.e. our cut score (theoretical/predictive and not a physical measurement) vs. Sarine Light/OGI CFire (machine repeatable and a physical measurement) etc or something of that nature.

Beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder. What some may find beautiful others may find horrendous and vice versa. I'm not sure if we can ever agree on the quantification of beauty as its so personal. Light performance in diamonds on the other hand - I have a feeling, humans will quantify that in my lifetime.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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As you read more here Joshua, you'll learn that light performance has already been quantified by AGSL.
That's why I was asking what type of performance you meant.
It's going to be a fun place for you to get all this stuff.
I have also been around the NYC diamond market for thousands of years ( :read: )
Seriously- compared to a lot of very important dealers and sellers in NYC, readers here are far more up on the technical innovation- including, but not limited to AGSL light performance literature and information.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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JoshuaNiamehr|1425521744|3842033 said:
tyty333|1425516208|3841998 said:
You can start with the 100s and then start weeding from there. ED is pretty liberal with their 100 scores. There are lots of stones
with very little red in the aset that score 100 at least in the cushions. I've also seen ovals with dark bow-ties scoring 100s. So, you
still have to be diligent.

I wouldnt agree that its liberal - its actually really mean to diamonds ;-) But I do agree, its meant to be used as a guideline/helper tool in helping you weed out poor makes in our virtual inventory, quickly.I think it lets some unattractive stones get the 100 rating. I define a bow-tie as a dark area going through the middle of the stone (blue aset). I'm ok with a bow-tie that reflects light (red) but
I like to see a nice transition pattern from the bow-tie to the rest of the stone. I don't think your algorithm takes this into effect.
I like my ovals to be cut like a round brilliant but unless done well will result in a not so nice bow-tie. I'm not fond of oval cuts
where the stone looks like it's been quartered with a line going through the center (NS and EW). Personal preference I know.


How are you defining dark bow ties? Lots of blue, green or red in the center? Some polishers today are changing their techniques to kill off bow-ties and making the area commonly referred to as a bow-tie, very brilliant, its been quite exciting to watch the recent evolution of Oval Brilliant's. I do tend to love certain Oval facet arrangements over others - I wish the GIA did a better job of differentiating between all the varying facet arrangements beyond the plot diagram.

Also "crushed ice" cushions might be what you are referring to - but that is an issue with the facet arrangement of crushed ice cushions in general. Would you agree? They are all around poor performers, so if you're comparing it to a non-crushed ice cushion - it will be dull in comparison. I personally dislike crushed ice cushions very much as many do in this forum from what Ive learned. Which is another reason I wish GIA differentiated between the various facet arrangements way better than they do now :(I'm not a fan of crushed
ice either. I was not aware that they all had bad light return. Some of the pictures of cushions that score 100 are horrendous!
Maybe I'm too picky for your grading systems. I do agree it's a start though.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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tyty- you have me soooo curious.
Although I may have disagreed with some of your assessments in the past, I find you to be extremely knowledgeable in an overall sense.
Based on reading so many of your posts, I believe we both know that not all "crushed ice" cushions have "bad" light return.
I also believe both of us would advise consumers than any "algorithm" - ether secret, or published -which claims to be able to evaluate the cut of a fancy shaped diamond is to be ignored.
How is a "secret" grading system who's results are so clearly inconsistent in any way helpful to consumers ?
 
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