Online charges Singapore

[jem_ezell]

Hi

I would like to check with those who have purchased their diamonds online. From what I have read, online diamonds could only be purchase with Bank wire and not Credit cards (I am from Singapore). Does anyone know the reason y? Correct me if I am wrong but would one have to pay more to the banks if the diamond were to purchase using Bank wire (in this case, I suppose bank wire means TT?)? Cos I have went to the bank and saw that one have to pay for a higher exchange rate (from Singapore $ to $ USD) for TT services and also service charges.

Regards

Jem

 

[tomatoe]

When I wanted to purchase my diamond from goodoldgold.com, they told me that their insurance company did not allow them to accept overseas credit cards for security reasons.
As to whether the TT will mean we ultimately have to pay more to the bank, the total overall money spent will still be much lower than what you would have to pay for an inferior or H&A quality diamond purchased in Singapore, except during a loose GIA cert diamonds sale from TAKA Jewelery

 

[kevinng]

TT charges are very low. It's only S$30 or so. FX rates at the banks are also very competitive in Singapore. USD is the most liquid currency and the bid-ask spread is very small. I wouldn't worry about it.

I would, however, worry about shipping and insurance charges. That could be a large part of the cost (in percentage terms), especially if you purchase a smaller diamond. If you decide to return the diamond, you have to bear the shipping charges both ways. You must understand that fully before you buy online.

Also, if you return the diamond, you'll have to suffer the FX loss. From what I know, FX buy rates at US banks are not good, so you may suffer some losses there.

 

[jem_ezell]

Hi

I have just went to the bank to check on TT charges and it's exchange rate in Singapore (Dun think is nice for me to put in the bank name since we are commenting on the $).

Anyway the charges are less then $50 SGD. But for the exchange rate, the bank's exchange rate for USD is like $1 USD for $1.74SGD for TT. If through normal currency change in bank is $1 USD for $1.72 SGD and if I were to change it at normal money changer, the exchange rate is $1 USD for $1.69SGD.

This rate is what I saw through the electronic display in the bank. If this is the conversion, just the exchange rate + shipping + 5% GST will be like another $300 SGD for a $2000 USD Diamond. As I am on tight budget, really need to confirm on the excalt value. Do correct me if I am wrong cos I have never done any internet transaction or TT money before.

Jem

 

[kevinng]

I am under a bank's priority banking program, so they give me discounts on some fees. When I did my transaction a month plus ago, the rate was S$1.723=US$1.

You should shop around. The money changer has better rates, but not usually so much. At 1.69, I would buy up everything he has because the last done wholesale rate was 1.7145... and banks are buying at 1.6910. You must have made a mistake.

All banks have different rates. Some banks have better rates than others. 1.74 is very high.

 

[kevinng]

For a US$2000 diamond, you have to pay:

5% GST = US$100 (Plus a bit of fees charged by fedex)
Shipping US$100 (depends on vendor)
TT Charges = About S$30-S$50 (depends on which bank and what kind of relationship you have with the bank.

Yes... the additional costs would be in excess of SGD300. You have to add that into your calculations.

I don't see how FX would affect the cost. You use the TT rate for your calculations... and that's it. I hope you're not taking the difference between the bank's retail rate and the wholesale rate and considering that as cost... because that is the wrong way to think about things. Forget 1.69 because that's the wrong rate. Like I said, at 1.69, I would buy up everything.

At the end of the number crunching... you decide if the diamond you're getting is worth the money you're spending. Did you not get my spreadsheet?

 

[jem_ezell]

Nope. I did not receive your spread sheet in your previous emails.

Can email me your spread sheets?

Jem

 

[starfire]

You might also want to factor in the insurance cost of shipping the diamond. Some insurance companies have a minimum premium of S$100, while courier companies' coverage is very limited.

And if you want to return the diamond to the vendor, you will need to multiply the insurance and shipping charges by 2.

Also, if you send the diamond back and get a new one, you will pay GST *again* even though you will only end up getting ONE diamond. (There is no way around this). This potentially means at least US$200 GST based on the scenario below.

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

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On 8/13/2004 5:43:20 AM kevinng wrote:

For a US$2000 diamond, you have to pay:

5% GST = US$100 (Plus a bit of fees charged by fedex)
Shipping US$100 (depends on vendor)
TT Charges = About S$30-S$50 (depends on which bank and what kind of relationship you have with the bank.

Yes... the additional costs would be in excess of SGD300. You have to add that into your calculations.

I don't see how FX would affect the cost. You use the TT rate for your calculations... and that's it. I hope you're not taking the difference between the bank's retail rate and the wholesale rate and considering that as cost... because that is the wrong way to think about things. Forget 1.69 because that's the wrong rate. Like I said, at 1.69, I would buy up everything.

At the end of the number crunching... you decide if the diamond you're getting is worth the money you're spending. Did you not get my spreadsheet?
----------------

 

[starfire]

Hi Tomatoe,

You make it sound as though a typical diamond purchased in Singapore is inferior to that purchased online.

I don't think this is true at all, and is not a fair statement.

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

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On 8/13/2004 2:38:44 AM tomatoe wrote:

When I wanted to purchase my diamond from goodoldgold.com, they told me that their insurance company did not allow them to accept overseas credit cards for security reasons.
As to whether the TT will mean we ultimately have to pay more to the bank, the total overall money spent will still be much lower than what you would have to pay for an inferior or H&A quality diamond purchased in Singapore, except during a loose GIA cert diamonds sale from TAKA Jewelery

----------------

 

[kevinng]

The shipping charges quoted by the vendors include insurance. For Good Old Gold, that would be US$100. So, there is no extra to factor in.

There are a lot of charges. That's why I was very careful when selecting my diamond.

Taka is having their 50% off GIA sale. That's worth taking a look. You will need an lightscope/idealscope of sorts to pick out a performing diamond though.

 

[kevinng]

I have been in contact with Jem, Stephen. He's on a budget and he cannot afford anything in your shop, I'm afraid.

 

[kevinng]

It is untrue that a diamond purchased in Singapore is inferior to that purchased online. I have been eyeing those Destinees very carefully. They are quite good... but very pricey. The diamonds are from the US, so they may come from a factory these online vendors use? Not inferior, but it has about a 40% margin over online prices... after shipping and GST.

There are also diamond shops here and there... but I did not checked them out. You need to know your diamonds to be able to fish out a good one because they don't give you enough information.

A friend of mine recommended a couple of shops, which I have told Jem. However, he seems reluctant to check them out.

 

[starfire]

Hi Kevin,

US$100 sounds about right for shipping and insurance ONE-WAY.

However, if you do not like the diamond you see, then you would have to send it back at your cost. In this scenario, you are looking at about S$50+ for shipping and S$100 minimum insurance premium if you send by Fedex. (We were informed by our insurance company that premiums for fedex and a few others were raised because of incidents of loss/theft occuring in regional hubs, and courier service companies are imposing fuel surcharges).

If you send the diamond back to the vendor, I presume you will still have to pay for shipping US$100 again. Is this correct?

Therefore, assuming you do return the diamond for a different one of the same quality, you are looking at spending an additional S$500 (for outward and inward freight and insurance and GST). This is on top of the S$300 initial additional costs that you will be paying.

So if you happen not to like the diamond the first time round, you will end up spending additional S$800 instead of just S$300 (based on your initial scenario).

The charges will be more expensive if we are talking about a substantially better or larger diamond.

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

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On 8/13/2004 8:34:37 AM kevinng wrote:

The shipping charges quoted by the vendors include insurance. For Good Old Gold, that would be US$100. So, there is no extra to factor in.

There are a lot of charges. That's why I was very careful when selecting my diamond.

Taka is having their 50% off GIA sale. That's worth taking a look. You will need an lightscope/idealscope of sorts to pick out a performing diamond though.----------------

 

[starfire]

Following up with my previous post, the corollary point is this:

If you buy a diamond in Singapore and you don't like it, it IS possible for you to go back within a reasonable period of time to exchange it for another diamond.

True, there may be some minor costs involved (especially if the diamond is already set). But you would not have to fork out anything close to S$800 for it.

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

 

[pyramid]

I am in the UK and hope to buy a diamond online sometime. The charges at present we pay are Insurance, Shipping, 5% excise charge, 17.5% Value Added Tax, plus an 11% extra tax charge which has been levied this month but going up by 1% each month until March 2005 which it will be 17% (to be reviewed after that date).

Even with these charges I am led to believe I will pay no more than I would in the UK.

Does anyone know what will happen after March 2005, i.e. anyone who knows Government and tax systems, I am assuming there will still be a charge but am wondering if it will remain at 17%. The document I read on Pricescope before just said it would be reviewed at that time. This is something to do with an argument between USA and UK Governments on all Imports.

So at the moment the percentage charge for taxes is 32.5%.

rising to 39.5% in March 2005.

 

[kevinng]

Stephen... you're scaring the poor chap. But can't say you're wrong.

 

[rocksteady]

I am an online buyer from Singapore who is part way through a purchase so I can't comment on all of the costs at this time.

However I believe that your original post was about credit cards versus wire transfer. I think your concern is likely to be misplaced as even if you could use a credit card you would still pay similar or higher rates (usually higher) to those that are being quoted for the TT.

The reason for the high rates on the credit cards is the 'spread' (profit) that the card companies are entitled to make on any foreign currency transaction (e.g. USD purchase on SGD card)

Sorry that its not better news

 

[starfire]

Well, the truth did need saying and the poor chap deserves balanced information (including the potential costs and inconvenience of things going wrong). Nobody makes an investment after researching only best-case scenarios - you need to look at potential downsides as well.

Besides, there seem to be a few PS users who persistently denigrate Singaporean B&M retailers and consistently sing songs about buying online (as though they are somehow stakeholders in online companies), focusing on all the wonderful things, while forgetting to mention the possible ugly truths.

These people keep talking about higher prices in B&M stores, but don't realize that the higher costs are justifiable (and potentially lower than an online shopping experience gone wrong).

It is through the B&M retailers' efforts that consumers in Singapore do not have to worry about paying potentially hundreds of dollars unnecessarily - by keeping variety of inventory and taking care of the shipping risks, as well as the hundred different things that make offline shopping a pleasureable and rewarding experience.

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

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On 8/13/2004 10:11:40 AM kevinng wrote:

Stephen... you're scaring the poor chap. But can't say you're wrong.----------------

 

[tomatoe]

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On 8/13/2004 8:31:03 AM starfire wrote:

Hi Tomatoe,


You make it sound as though a typical diamond purchased in Singapore is inferior to that purchased online.


I don't think this is true at all, and is not a fair statement.


Stephen Tan

Charlotte Atelier

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On 8/13/2004 2:38:44 AM tomatoe wrote:


When I wanted to purchase my diamond from goodoldgold.com, they told me that their insurance company did not allow them to accept overseas credit cards for security reasons.

As to whether the TT will mean we ultimately have to pay more to the bank, the total overall money spent will still be much lower than what you would have to pay for an inferior or H&A quality diamond purchased in Singapore, except during a loose GIA cert diamonds sale from TAKA Jewelery

----------------

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I did not say that and as USUAL you, Stephan, decided to read more into my comments then necessary. I am sick of your insidious replies and would appreciate it if you stop being such a petty human being and giving CA such a bad reputation.

 

[tomatoe]

Kevin, I certainly didnt say ALL diamonds in Singapore are inferior but Stephan as usual chose to pick on certain parts of the comment and ignore my reply in its entirety.

 

[starfire]

Sorry, Tomatoe, but which part of the statement below did I misunderstand?

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On 8/13/2004 2:38:44 AM tomatoe wrote:

As to whether the TT will mean we ultimately have to pay more to the bank, the total overall money spent will still be much lower than what you would have to pay for an inferior or H&A quality diamond purchased in Singapore, except... [deleted]

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[noobie]

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On 8/13/2004 11:18:16 AM starfire wrote:





Sorry, Tomatoe, but which part of the statement below did I misunderstand?

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On 8/13/2004 2:38:44 AM tomatoe wrote:





As to whether the TT will mean we ultimately have to pay more to the bank, the total overall money spent will still be much lower than what you would have to pay for an inferior or H&A quality diamond purchased in Singapore, except... [deleted]

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Hmm, That's not how I read it. I interpreted that to mean, at a given expediture one could expect a higher quality diamond from an online vendor versus a typical B&M in Singapore, To get an equivalent H&A diamond, one would generally expect to pay more in Sinagpore.

That seems to be consistent with Kevin's experience as well as consumer feedback.

 

[chrono]

That is correct; I intepreted it exactly as Noobie explained. Tomatoe did not in any way imply that ALL diamonds sold in the Singporean B&Ms were inferior to those sold online. You can get excellent quality diamonds (H&A caliber) as well but at a much higher cost even after including all the added shipping and tax costs.

 

[tomatoe]

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On 8/13/2004 11:24:24 AM noobie wrote:

Hmm, That's not how I read it. I interpreted that to mean, at a given expediture one could expect a higher quality diamond from an online vendor versus a typical B&M in Singapore, To get an equivalent H&A diamond, one would generally expect to pay more in Sinagpore.

That seems to be consistent with Kevin's experience as well as consumer feedback.

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Noobie, that is because you do not have a prior bias against me or a personal vendetta to read MORE into (and thus misconstrue) whatever I type.

 

[starfire]

Hi Tomatoe,

Try to understand that that not everyone is keen on wasting time on pursuing immature "vendetta" games.

I simply read what was on your post, and made an interpretation based on your words and based on your history of posts against Singaporean B&Ms. My comment was addressed in relation to your statement, not your person.

Please let's try to keep a civil tone, and not descend into name calling and irrational generalization.

Thanks!
Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier

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On 8/13/2004 11:33:40 AM tomatoe wrote:

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Noobie, that is because you do not have a prior bias against me or a personal vendetta to read MORE into (and thus misconstrue) whatever I type. ----------------

 

[kevinng]

Calm down, everyone. Everyone has their points. Most are valid. Let's not sour our relationships just because of minor misunderstandings.

I think the risk of online purchases are very real because of the large shipping cost involved. So one has to be careful and choose the diamond carefully. Why do you think I bought a D VVS2, with a near perfect lightscope image?

I trust Jonathan from Good Old Gold completely. After interacting with him, I know he is knowledgeable and genuinely very helpful. I trust that he will not sell a non-performer to me, knowing the huge shipping cost involved. But when it comes to the SI clarity grades, even the best can sometimes make honest mistakes about how eye-clean the diamond is.

So, if you stick to the better clarity grades and request that he checks the diamond carefully, I think it should be quite safe.

I did my maths. Even if I were to pay S$800 for each mistake, I can ship it back 5 times before I hit the price of a Destinee equivalent. Well, we all know how expensive rent is in Singapore. A typical mall space can cost S$30,000 per month easy. The markup must therefore be high for these retailers to make money.

Whether you buy online or in the mall really depends on what kind of person you are. I am the kind of person who fixes my own car, assembles my own PC, does my own laundry and clean my own room. I like to learn... find out more... interact with people... go to the bank and TT the money... go to the jeweller... explain what I want... etc... and put this ring together. Online purchasing is hence very natural to me.

Jem is on a tight budget. He is trying to furnish his flat on his savings, and squeeze out this ring to surprise his girlfriend. I think that's really sweet and I am trying hard to figure out a solution for him. What do you think he should do? If he goes online, he can potentially put a 47 pointer premium H&A on his girlfriend's finger. If he were to go to the mall in Singapore, how well do you think he would fare? It think it is also natural that he would go online.

I say let's focus on helping him out.

 

[jem_ezell]

Hi everyone

thanks for the advice and comments.

Thanks a lot.

With the help of Kevin, I have more or less decided on this 0.5 carat vs2 F Diamond. What do you all think?

Attached is the pic of the position of the inclusion.

Jeremy

 

[jem_ezell]

attached is a pic of the ideal scope image

 

[jem_ezell]

Hearts and arrows.

 

[Sasori]

Hi Jem,
I'm from Singapore as well.

Awaiting the arrival of my diamond next week!

I've bought a AGS triple 'O' stone from an online dealer. Did my research and a similar 'Destinee' stone would have cost me more then twice what I need to pay.

As Kevin mentioned, my decision is to take the risk on an online purchase as the potential savings is huge. The additional cost is still way within the savings.

To me its no risk no gain. But need to do homework, understand the basics before commit eh!