Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian Ring

[SanGaai]

Hi Everyone,

I am looking to custom make an Edwardian style engagement ring with an old European / old Miner cut center diamond. It seems that there are very limited amount of options out there for these diamonds. I only have very few to choose from and the color and grades are all around H-I and SI. Since it is a vintage cut, I would expect that to be the case, as I was told the nicer ones are re-cut to modern cuts so they bring in more money.

What are my options here? Go with what I can find. Which are currently the following:

1.01ct H Color Si 1 Clarity EGL USA graded Old Miner Diamond with Good Polish and Good Symmetry measuring 6.36mm
1.06ct J Color VS 2 Clarity EGL USA graded Old Miner Diamond with Good Polish and Good Symmetry measuring 5.8mm
1.03ct I Color Si 1 Clarity GIA graded Old European Diamond with Good Polish and Good Symmetry measuring 6.34mm

I am leaning towards the last one, as the price is within my budget (under $5000 CDN). I would like some second opinions to see what others think. The VS2 1.06 is about $1000 difference in price.

I also considered looking into buying estate engagement rings, but nothing comes up as exactly what I was looking for - hence the custom make. I want to get her a nice vintage style ring, as this is what she is after.

Please help! I need to make a decision soon as I am trying to give enough time for the jeweler to design the ring/setting.

Thanks!

 

[stci]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

If it was me, I would go with 1.03. Be sure the diamond is eye clean.

For the 1.06 don't touch. 5.8mm for this weight is a no no. I have a 1.08 6mm (look like a 0.75 ct) and I have regrets sometime although it is beautiful. Don't repeat this error Sweety.

 

[SanGaai]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

There's also a 1.01ct I Color Si 1 Clarity GIA graded Old Miner Diamond with Good Polish and Fair Symmetry measuring 6.34mm that's close to the $6000 mark which is a bit over budget, but could be worth it compared to my selection. Also it is GIA graded.....

 

[LJL]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

I would also go with the 1.03. Though I know it doesnt matter as much with old cuts, the 1.03 is the only one that is GIA graded and therefore reliable. You specifically want to be in the H-I SI range so if you choose one of the EGL stones, you risk being in the J range for the first listed and the L range for the second and with questionable clarity. Might face up a bit whiter since than their modern counterparts but I'd be concerned about the clarity.

and +1 that the size seems off for the second stone.

 

[SanGaai]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

If it was me, I would go with 1.03. Be sure the diamond is eye clean.

For the 1.06 don't touch. 5.8mm for this weight is a no no. I have a 1.08 6mm (look like a 0.75 ct) and I have regrets sometime although it is beautiful. Don't repeat this error Sweety.

What would consider it to be "eye clean"? Also would a person that loves vintage Edwardian style prefer an old European cut or an old Miner cut?

Thanks!

 

[slg47]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

I would eliminate the second one since the diameter is so small. Do you have pictures of these? have you seen them in person?

 

[jstarfireb]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

Ditto, eliminate the second one. The first is hard for me to recommend because of the EGL certificate. I prefer GIA because EGL grades softly on color and maybe clarity. Depending on which EGL lab it is (USA, Europe, Israel), that first diamond may actually be an I, J, or K if GIA had graded it. I'd pick the GIA I colored stone just for that reason. As for clarity...with any SI clarity diamond, you need to make sure it's eye-clean, meaning that you can't see any inclusions with the naked eye. You and the jeweler can look at the stones together to determine this.

However, we have no information about how well cut these diamonds are. Most jewelers don't give you enough info about cut, like ASET or IS images, especially for old cuts, so you may have to use your eyes to judge the cut. Have you compared all 3 diamonds together? Which looks the most beautiful to you?

 

[SanGaai]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

Thanks for all the opinions. I think it is down to the two below. Both is over budget but will be worth it I hope at close to $6k.

1.03ct I Color Si 1 Clarity GIA graded Old European Diamond with Good Polish and Good Symmetry measuring 6.34mm (approx. $4800)
1.01ct I Color Si 1 Clarity GIA graded Old Miner Diamond with Good Polish and Fair Symmetry measuring 6.34mm (approx. $6000)

I think the second one being only fair symmetry might not be as good, but being an old miner's cut, it might not matter. I am finding these through a local dealer who is also doing my setting, so I will be able to see this in person. Unfortunately it takes 50% payment up front to order it in to view. The person is really good and patient and will sit down with me to look at it under the scope. So I think I will order one of the above to take a look. The first one does fit the price, but is an Old European cut, which could be slightly different in terms of the look, anyone care to comment?

Thanks everyone for their time and input!

 

[stci]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

One more time go for 1.03 cause it's an OEC. The old miner are not perfectly round (fair symmetry) and the price is way too expensive.

 

[tyty333]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

Thanks for all the opinions. I think it is down to the two below. Both is over budget but will be worth it I hope at close to $6k.

1.03ct I Color Si 1 Clarity GIA graded Old European Diamond with Good Polish and Good Symmetry measuring 6.34mm (approx. $4800)
1.01ct I Color Si 1 Clarity GIA graded Old Miner Diamond with Good Polish and Fair Symmetry measuring 6.34mm (approx. $6000)

I think the second one being only fair symmetry might not be as good, but being an old miner's cut, it might not matter. I am finding these through a local dealer who is also doing my setting, so I will be able to see this in person. Unfortunately it takes 50% payment up front to order it in to view. The person is really good and patient and will sit down with me to look at it under the scope. So I think I will order one of the above to take a look. The first one does fit the price, but is an Old European cut, which could be slightly different in terms of the look, anyone care to comment?

Thanks everyone for their time and input!

OEC/OMC vary significantly. You can not eliminate stones due to thier clarity/color. You really need to see pictures of these
stones. The faceting pattern is the main determinant to whether a stone will be be lovely or not. A lot of old stones are graded
by EGL so I wouldnt let that bother you either.

I wonder if your jeweler could get stones from Old World Diamonds. At least you would have an idea of what he was bringing
in.

You can look at these stones and see how much they vary.
http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/view.php?SHAPE=EU

This one looks like it could be a nice stone.
http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=832&SHAPE=EU

If you want help, get pictures and post as much info as you have about the stones.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

Any possibility you'd be interested in a newly cut OEC or Old Mine cut? Because Good Old Gold is having both cut to ideal light performance and better symmetry than many of the old stones. Plus, many of the old stones have very thin girdles requiring you to put the stone in a bezel. Be very careful about that if you do buy an old stone because extremely thin girdles can chip easily.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamondResults.php?shape=1&optSym=128&inHouse=3&resultsColumns=268435535

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamondResults.php?shape=16&optSym=128&inHouse=3&resultsColumns=268435535

 

[SanGaai]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

I will probably get some pictures and go from there. I think my girlfriend does prefer the old miner cut for a more rectangular shape. I taken a look on good old gold's website and their vintage cuts are pretty pricy. I would be paying twice the price. I guess when it comes to it, I really have to get pictures or see these in person. I will order some in this coming week, and will post whatever I have on here. Thanks again everyone.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

I love antique stones and the ones from Good Old Gold, but the advantage to the ones from GOG is that they are cut to have ideal light performance (as well as excellent polish and symmetry usually) and they also don't have very thin girdles. You can find gorgeous old OEC's, but it isn't always easy to determine whether the light performance is optimal and you are more limited in setting the stone if the girdles are very thin. It is rewarding when one finds a great old stone, though.

 

[madgenius]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

Is there a difference in an "Old Miner Cut" and an Old Mine Brilliant as denoted by GIA and described here: https://www.pricescope.com/journal/new_gia_and_agsl_naming_conventions_cushion_cut_diamonds

If they are the same then perhaps an economical way to go would to just look for Cushion Brilliants (antique / chunky cushions) and find one that meets 3 of the 4 criteria to be considered "Old Mine".

As a general guideline, three out of four criteria must be true for it to be called Old Mine Brilliant instead of a Cushion Brilliant.

i) Table equal to or less than 53%
ii) Culet equal to or larger than slightly large
iii) Average Crown Angles of the Centre Bezels (across the width) are equal to or greater than 40 degrees
iv) Lower Half Length Equal to or Smaller than 60% (by visual inspection only)

The stone I recently purchased for my e-ring is graded by AGS but it has 3 of the 4 above criteria so I believe that if it were graded by GIA it would come back as an Old Mine. I didn't get my stone from them but I believe that EngagementRingsDirect has some stones that might fall into this category and are reasonably priced.

If I'm mistaken and Old Miner is different than Old Mine Brilliant then would someone please explain to me the difference? Is it more of a connotation thing where Old Miner is assumed to be a genuine antique or something?

 

[SanGaai]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

So now that I wanted to look at the Old Miner cut 1.01ct I Color Si 1 Clarity (GIA graded Old Miner Diamond with Good Polish and Fair Symmetry measuring 6.34mm), they decided to raise the price on it, which it is already at the maximum of my budget. I am surprised at the lack of selection of Old Miner diamonds out there. Well the ones that fit my criteria: GIA Certified, 1ct, I color or better, Si1 or better, 5K range. Not sure what to do at this point. Tempted to go with just a 1ct cushion, but that will definitely lose the antique touch.

For all the antique lovers out there - would you settle for a H or I or even J color EGL certified Old Miner Cut? I've been looking around and even estate engagement rings are all around the J color range and EGL certified. Old Miner diamonds seems a bit more unique, so the color could be a compromise? I would like to know what others think? As I have no clue regarding this sort of thing and would like to get the most suiting ring to propose with.

 

[Mrs.W 514]

Re: Old Miner / Old European Cut - Custom Design Edwardian R

I am new to this thread but I thought I would suggest http://jewelsbyericagrace.com/ she has some seriously beautiful antique diamonds and her prices are incredibly reasonable.

in response to your question about color it really is a personal thing. I just bought a small OEC and its a L in color and I am completely in love with the warm vanilla color, not to mention the bright flashes or colored light it throws at me. Your girlfriend might be totally different and thinks it looks dirty or something. So yes I would totally settle for a lower color, my dream color is in the K L M N range.

Have you looked at diamonds with your gf? I think the most suitable diamond ring is the one your girlfriend loves not the one graded the "best"

There are some really beautiful options on this page that are in your budget or just a smidge over.
http://jewelsbyericagrace.com/antique_vintage_and_reproduction_rings_page_2