Newbie Advice: Is this diamond worth the extra $$?

[YoungWilliams]

Hello all,

Been lurking here for a few days, reading and learning. Upon learning about the HCA, H&A, I went looking for some diamonds. Here are my req'ts:

Round Brilliant Cut-Ideal
1.0 Carat or bigger
G or better color
VVS2 or better clarity

I went searching about, looking for rocks with AGSL certs so I could plug it into the HCA. I came upon this one: 1.04 ct, ideal, VVS2, which scores a 1.4 on the HCA (Excellent return & fire, very good scintillation and spread). Cost is $8308.

Browsing some more, I found at Good Old Gold this: 1.02 ct, ideal, VVS2, H&A, which also scores a 1.4 on the HCA (the same fire, etc ratings), but has a pretty good Idealscope rating (to my untrained eye), for about $700 more. That's pushing my upper limit on cost. Do you think the difference in cost is worth it?

Thanks in advance for all your advice and help!

 

[valeria101]

What's the deal with VVS ? It is the grade you are after or just a perfectly clean diamond ?

Otherwise, the extra cost account for H&A symetry ion the GOG diamond. There is no way to know how close or far from that comes the diamond at BN unless you make use of their return policy to inspect the diamond, IMO.

 

[EdSkinner]

Anybody who purchases a VVS stone is wasting their money. If you just want to spend money get a VVS or better. No need to go above VS2. Get a better color. A fool and his money are soon parted.

 

[lmurden]

HAMMER, "A fool and his money..." Please!

I saw at least two VS2 that had white or black bubbles on the side and that was not exceptable for me! Remember, clarity is graded from the top!

 

[kevinng]

----------------
On 10/18/2004 10:00:23 AM HAMMER wrote:

Anybody who purchases a VVS stone is wasting their money. If you just want to spend money get a VVS or better. No need to go above VS2. Get a better color. A fool and his money are soon parted.----------------

I do not agree. The clarity grade determines the value of the diamond. It's based on supply and demand. You cannot call someone who pays the fair value a fool.

 

[EdSkinner]

Imurden--of course clarity is graded from the top. So what if you can see something from the side. If that isn't acceptable to you, thats your problem, and shows that you do not know the value of having inclusions. Kevinng, clarity is overated. Sure it helps to determin price, but what would you rather have a 1.00 ct. D-IF @$13,000 p/c or a 1.00 ct. D VS2 @$6,100 p/c, both of which you shouldn't be able to tell the difference with the naked eye. My money is on the VS2 and use the difference to go on vacation. You can have the IF and a loupe so when you go to a dinner party you can walk around and tell people to try to find something in your stone. Boy that sounds like fun, I'll send you a postcard.

 

[Nicrez]

hey Hammer, don't hurt 'em! *giggle*

Honestly Hammer, you should know that if everyone had the SAME taste as you, the clarity you want would most likely be the one that commanded the premium, so in the end, YOU would pay more for getting less...

I got a VVS1 stone, not because I NEEDED major clarity on my stone, but because everything else was just right on the stone, and we fell in love. Maybe I could have gotten the 2ct stone in an SI-1, but in fancy shapes you don't always have the options you have in round stones. Cut was primary to us, not clarity. So we got this stone, and I am laughing at anyone who says such blanket statements without knowing everyone's circumstances. Strong statements aren't necessary when you don't know the details of everyone's purchase.

(Plus, I GOT to go on vacation AND have my ring, thank you very much...)

Some people like higher clarities for the sake of purity, and that's their call. Hey, if they didn't, everyone would be buying VS2s and the shortage would really boost the price. So, to each his own, but when someone is cost conscience, I always suggest a VS2 or a EYE CLEAN SI-1, but I advise them to be open minded. Each stone has it's own personality, and you shouldn't turn away the perfect stone because the clarity is "too high". To each his own....

 

[lmurden]

HAMMER,

First of all, how you choose to spend your money is your choice! How someone else chooses to spend their money is their choice. Buying a diamond ring from the internet isn't always just about price. Price was extremely important to me, but I also wanted to make sure my fiancé' was getting what he paid for and not for what the jeweler was saying.

Second, I was not promoting IF or VVS I was just saying that a VS2 is not always free of visible inclusions from all angles which is what some people want and if you think that most people want to identify their diamond by the visible inclusions on the side think again! There is laser inscriptions.

Third, you might want to consider taking a vacation no matter how much money you save and to learn to not call people fools because they don't see things your way!

 

[YoungWilliams]

----------------
On 10/18/2004 10:00:23 AM HAMMER wrote:

A fool and his money are soon parted.----------------

Hey, that's why I'm here.

If I'm going to spend thousands of $$, I'm going to ask the people in the know.

The VVS spec came from the girl, though I have the ultimate decision, and most likely will push back (she's not an expert or anything; that's just what she told me). Now, having read the replies here, and doing some more searching on the clarity vs. All questions, it seems the consensus on the board leans toward cut > color > clarity, and that a VS stone would most likely work just fine, allowing a little better color (or a vacation).

Off to search some more. Thanks guys (and gals)!!

 

[lmurden]

Good luck!

 

[EdSkinner]

Keep in mind that this board over emphases cut. Cut and color can be a bit interchangable, although most of the contributers will tell you that Iam crazy. You can still get a very bright firery stone that is not ideal. See the AGA cut class charts. To me the HOF, H&A, Gabrielle, etc. are nothing more than gimicks, so you can save some money on cut and still get a good looking stone.

 

[EdSkinner]

Imurden: you can cash out your life savings and run naked down the mall in DC, throwing the money into the air proclaiming you love for Mortimere Snerd. That is you business, it's a free country. And it is true not all VS2 stones are clear from all angles because of the facet alighnment. But it faces clean. Maybe if you could see an inclusion from the side, you could recognize your own stone if it had to work on it, when you get it back you know that it is yours. Sure there are lazer inscribpions but you need a loupe or a microscope to see to see most of them. And most people dont't have a clue how to use a loupe. I dont't believe that I called you a fool, just insinuated that you are uninformed. Maybe I should reconsider. HAVE A NICE DAY. hammer

 

[YoungWilliams]

OK, for about $1k less than the Blue Nile stone, and $1.7k less than the VVS H&A, I found this beauty: 1.01 ct, G, VS1 H&A that scores a 1.1 on the HCA. The only blemish is a small (VS1) cavity on the girdle. There are similar ones out there, but this is my favorite.

Thoughts? Where should I take that vacation?

Thanks all!

Grant

 

[lmurden]

HAMMER,

I never said that you called me a fool. YoungWillaims was asking for help and constructive opinions and you gave your opinion but you ended by saying "A fool and his money are soon parted". It was just uncalled for.

Also when and if I get work done to my ring I will most defiantly scrutinize the ring throughly to make sure it is mine. Also a reputable jeweler or appraiser won't have any problem showing me the laser inscription on my diamond that matches the certificate which is exactly what was done before and after when I got my ring appraised. Have a great day!

 

[YoungWilliams]

No worries guys. At this point, I am pretty much a fool. As somebody smart said "I know enough to know that I know nothing."

 

[YoungWilliams]

Bump.

Any thoughts on this stone? Is the cavity on the girdle OK?

I found this: 1.01 ct, G, VS1 H&A that scores a 1.1 on the HCA. The only blemish is a small (VS1) cavity on the girdle. There are similar ones out there, but this is my favorite.

 

[Blueman33]

The VS clarity info is wrong.

I'll post and ignore the flames, but it is a fact, FACT, not opinion, that all graders state a VS2 has no inclusions visible to the naked eye. In fact, no where close, it takes effort to see them in a loup.

Definition:

"Very Slightly Included (VS) diamonds contain small or minor inclusions observed with effort under 10x magnification."

is one definition. pull up as MANY definitions from as MANY grading places as you can, the DEFINITION is totally and completely eye clean from all angles whatsoever.

Post a 1000 instances of this not being true, fine, but the DEFINITION is that no VS ever has eye visible inclusions at all.

 

[lmurden]

Clarity is graded from the top! Is this not true?

 

[ChooChoo]

I would rather have this:
http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=7265266

She would never see the difference in clarity, and the difference between real H&A and "fake" H&A, but she WOULD see the size difference.

 

[ChooChoo]

Or, if you want to stay at VS, I like this VS2 that bumps you up to an F color - I would take an F VS2 over a G VS1 any day!
http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=7034705

 

[lmurden]

"She would never see the difference in clarity, and the difference between real H&A and "fake" H&A, but she WOULD see the size difference." ChooChoo are you talking about me?

Who's talking about H&A? I was not.

Is it not true that clarity is graded face up?

Is it not true that it's the individual that decides what is important to them as far as the 4Cs goes?

Is it not true that color is subjective?

 

[ChooChoo]

I was just putting myself into the shoes of his girlfriend. Sure, it's all subjective, but if I didn't know what my girlfriend's subjective judgement was because I wanted to surprise her, I would err on the side of too big or too white.

 

[EdSkinner]

Sorry to tell you this Blueman. You can have eye visible inclustions in VS2 emerald cuts. I've seen GIA certs with them. It all has to do with the facet alignment. Also VS2, other than emerald cuts, should have inclusions that are rather easy to pick up under 10 power magnification, but still eye clean. But keep in mind that color and clarity are nothing more than somebody's opinion and that competent graders on loose stones should be within a grade of each other. Also Youngwilliams did you check out this one? http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=2753776&ref=PS622 Oh yes and anybody that is so worried about what you can see throught the pavilion of the stone, have it mounted upside down and tell everybody it is a spirit sun cut.