Need Input - Actual Image, ASET and H&A Pics included!

[ShinySearcher]

Looking to purchase stone online but wanted your expert opinion on this 1.17 GIA Ex, SI1 F with HCA 1.4 from B2C (Link below). I included ASET, Actual Image, H&A images, and plot. This stone is about 7800.

Actual image seemed cloudy to me and I was worried the black spot on the image is the crystal in the plot? I emailed company today and am awaiting response.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4055101-1.17-carat-Round-diamond-F-color-SI1-clarity.aspx

 

[ecf8503]

The images look fine, but yes I think the black spot is the inclusion on the plot.

 

[yssie]

Those look like simulations, not actual pictures - or, if they're actual pics, they've been put through the ringer in terms of post-photography processing...

And yes, based on the report we know that that's the grade-making inclusion (the reason it's an SI1, not a higher clarity grade).

My recommendation (as usual) if you're interested: have it shipped out and look at it with your own eyes, and let your eyes decide if it's clean to your specifications - confirm the return policy first! B2C is not known for customer service and I could not in good conscience suggest trusting your responder's eyes to evaluate the stone per your requirements for "eye clean" - if you want that sort of service you're going to have to choose another vendor (and pay for it).

 

[ShinySearcher]

Yes I was also looking at bluenile, jamesallen and whiteflash but they do seem slightly more expensive. So are crystals usually white or black? I have heard if there is any black marks or specs that is bad (obviously you dont want a black spot on your stone) but these is very magnified so i imagine that wouldnt be visible to naked eye.

When looking locally (California) all the stones in this size range 1.12-1.2, and GIA Ex cut with F-G in color seem to be SI2s which I am trying to stay away from. I have found a few Si2s that are very sparkly and beautiful but have a fairly large feather near the side which is concerning but If I stick local I may end up going that route.

I dont have a whole lot of time so I dont want to deal with buying and returning multiple from online.

Thank you for your input.

 

[denverappraiser]

A crystal inclusion means that there's some sort of mineral crystal inside the stone. Usually these are other diamonds that were there before the stone started to grow but there are other choices like sapphire, garnets etc. Unfortunately, there's no clue on the GIA docs about what the mineral is and it relates to this whole question of what's eye clean and what's not. Diamond crystals are usually transparent and pretty low relief against the base material. Sapphires are often black and rather high contrast. You CAN NOT tell the difference from the plot.

When GIA sets the clarity grade, they're using 4 basic variables. Quantity, size, nature, and location of the inclusion(s). You'll notice that 'eye clean' isn't on that list. Although GIA-SI1's are almost always eye clean, there are exceptions, and the most common exception is a black inclusion in a place that causes it to reflect around the stone. You see 8 copies instead of just 1. This also isn't on the report although a single mapped inclusion right in the middle of the stone is a flag. Unfortunately, the photomicrographs aren't all that much help either although sometimes you can pick up the issue of reflectors. These pictures are usually taken with back lighting and done in a way to make the inclusions stand out as much as possible. That's sort of the point. They're trying to show you what the inclusions are like. This isn't a glamour shot, it's a mug shot. The answer to your question is to talk to the seller and ask. Is it black or white? Is it transparent? A gemologist looking through a scope can answer this in a matter of seconds. My understanding is that most of the B2C stones with all of the photographs actually ARE present in their vault and although it may require a call back while someone goes and has a look at it, they are prepared to do that and I would fully expect them to give a straight answer. Vendors don't like returns any better than you do after all, and probably less.

As with all of these things, pick a vendor that you communicate well with. B2C seems to be a pretty well regarded outfit but if you don't feel comfortable when you're talking to them, follow your gut and go somewhere else. There's plenty of competition out there. At the same time, just because someone else doesn't feel warm and fuzzy with them doesn't mean you won't. FWIW, I don't see anything in those images that would be a red flag for me.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Those look like simulations, not actual pictures - or, if they're actual pics, they've been put through the ringer in terms of post-photography processing...

And yes, based on the report we know that that's the grade-making inclusion (the reason it's an SI1, not a higher clarity grade).

My recommendation (as usual) if you're interested: have it shipped out and look at it with your own eyes, and let your eyes decide if it's clean to your specifications - confirm the return policy first! B2C is not known for customer service and I could not in good conscience suggest trusting your responder's eyes to evaluate the stone per your requirements for "eye clean" - if you want that sort of service you're going to have to choose another vendor (and pay for it).

These images are from a very reputable large respected manufacturer.
The real life photo is usually taken to focus well on the grade making inclusion.
The ASET is made from a scan using AGS PGS software.
The H&A's are made from the scan using DiamCalc software so will not ever show inclusions with the current set up. The digital scan images are very accurate from this firm because the scans are made with Helium scanners.
All totally above board.

 

[leoshraeder]

Do the green areas in the rim of the diamond ASET indicate cut issues?

 

[yssie]

Those look like simulations, not actual pictures - or, if they're actual pics, they've been put through the ringer in terms of post-photography processing...

And yes, based on the report we know that that's the grade-making inclusion (the reason it's an SI1, not a higher clarity grade).

My recommendation (as usual) if you're interested: have it shipped out and look at it with your own eyes, and let your eyes decide if it's clean to your specifications - confirm the return policy first! B2C is not known for customer service and I could not in good conscience suggest trusting your responder's eyes to evaluate the stone per your requirements for "eye clean" - if you want that sort of service you're going to have to choose another vendor (and pay for it).

These images are from a very reputable large respected manufacturer.
The real life photo is usually taken to focus well on the grade making inclusion.
The ASET is made from a scan using AGS PGS software.
The H&A's are made from the scan using DiamCalc software so will not ever show inclusions with the current set up. The digital scan images are very accurate from this firm because the scans are made with Helium scanners.
All totally above board.

But they are not actual image, ASET, and H&A pics as indicated in the title - the only "actual" is the real life photo. I was not trying to suggest that the manufacturer of the equipment or photos is being dishonest, just clarifying that they aren't "actual photos" in case that is in fact what OP thought.. and if the vendor did lead OP to believe that, well, that *is* dishonest.

ETA: DC might not consider the effects of internal inclusions or body colour on light return but... I wrote earlier that this isn't the sort of stone I'd worry about on that front but I redact that statement: it's a several-thousand dollar purchase and personally I *would* want to see it in-person, having had some experience with GIA's grab-a-grade-from-a-hat fluor grading and seeing the internal graining not shown comment, and knowing that only my eyes can determine "eyeclean" per my requirements with certainty, so...
Shiny, no red flags (including that green you see) but given the magnitude of this purchase I strongly recommend seeing it with your own eyes prior to setting.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/visible_effects_painting_digging_superideal_diamonds

 

[kat08]

My concern is that the inclusion is right in the middle of the table. I had an SI1 diamond with an inclusion in the table, and unfortunately that inclusion was black. The rest of the diamond had amazing clarity. But because of the inclusion's location, I could definitely notice the black speck and returned the diamond. My replacement diamond was also an SI1 with a black inclusion. But the inclusion wasn't in the table, and even though the inclusion was reflected around, the diamond was eye clean for me. I could only see the inclusion and its reflections at a very specific tilted angle, and only if I was actively trying to find it. The location of the inclusion made all the difference for me. I'm wondering if even a white inclusion in the table might be more noticeable simply because it's in the table…?

 

[ShinySearcher]

Thank you all for the input, I really appreciate it. The customer service at B2C has been decent but not amazing.

I am also looking at below linked stone on Whiteflash (please check it out and comment if possible) and they have been great in service department. WF slightly more expensive "in my opinion" but I appreciate the service and they do not drop ship. For virtual stones they get it in and evaluate it, which includes idealscope and ASET, send you pics and discuss with your before actually sending it out to you. The one bummer is that you do have to pay upfront but a refund only takes 2 days is what I was told.

Anyway what is your thoughts on this stone? I have heard that twinning whisp on Si1 usually isnt too negative. I cant tell from plot which is feather and which is needed, although I have heard feather is much worse.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3024613.htm#

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Those look like simulations, not actual pictures - or, if they're actual pics, they've been put through the ringer in terms of post-photography processing...

And yes, based on the report we know that that's the grade-making inclusion (the reason it's an SI1, not a higher clarity grade).

My recommendation (as usual) if you're interested: have it shipped out and look at it with your own eyes, and let your eyes decide if it's clean to your specifications - confirm the return policy first! B2C is not known for customer service and I could not in good conscience suggest trusting your responder's eyes to evaluate the stone per your requirements for "eye clean" - if you want that sort of service you're going to have to choose another vendor (and pay for it).

These images are from a very reputable large respected manufacturer.
The real life photo is usually taken to focus well on the grade making inclusion.
The ASET is made from a scan using AGS PGS software.
The H&A's are made from the scan using DiamCalc software so will not ever show inclusions with the current set up. The digital scan images are very accurate from this firm because the scans are made with Helium scanners.
All totally above board.

But they are not actual image, ASET, and H&A pics as indicated in the title - the only "actual" is the real life photo. I was not trying to suggest that the manufacturer of the equipment or photos is being dishonest, just clarifying that they aren't "actual photos" in case that is in fact what OP thought.. and if the vendor did lead OP to believe that, well, that *is* dishonest.

ETA: DC might not consider the effects of internal inclusions or body colour on light return but... I wrote earlier that this isn't the sort of stone I'd worry about on that front but I redact that statement: it's a several-thousand dollar purchase and personally I *would* want to see it in-person, having had some experience with GIA's grab-a-grade-from-a-hat fluor grading and seeing the internal graining not shown comment, and knowing that only my eyes can determine "eyeclean" per my requirements with certainty, so...
Shiny, no red flags (including that green you see) but given the magnitude of this purchase I strongly recommend seeing it with your own eyes prior to setting.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/visible_effects_painting_digging_superideal_diamonds

Yssie did you know that there are some adjustable H&A's viewers on the market that enable a larger range of not nice proportions to be real life photographed.
Very few DiamCalc users would know how to do that with DC settings.
And the Hearts photos of many VS2 and SI stones are photoshopped to remove the inclusion effects because the better the inclusion placement from a face up perspective, the worse the hearts side looks (as a rule) and this can even make it hard to assess the Hearts image as well as frighten many buyers away.
I have no issue buying from companies who use accurate scans and software.