Need help finding a diamond on budget

[msheikh25]

Thanks all in advance for your help.

I am looking to purchase a diamond for a setting I have already found similar to this one: http://sunjewelry.com/er2270.html

The setting I found is at Christian Bernard and looks very similar to this one except its total weight is smaller. It is .16 carat tw and costs $899 in 14k white gold. The lady at the jewelry store said that this setting needs at least a 3/4th carat diamond. The best she could offer me was .5 carat non-certified for $1200 or .75 non-certified for $2000 (those are prices of the diamond alone - would be plus $900 including the setting). Those didn’t sound like very good deals to me so I am venturing out to find a diamond on my own. What are the opinions on the setting? Is the price decent at $899 for 14k white gold?

I would actually like to find something around 1 carat in a princess cut. BUT I would really like to stay under $2000 for the diamond. From the research I have been doing this is what I understand:

1. Cut - should be the most important factor (but I have no idea how to judge it with the measurements I find, unless it is certified and listed specifically)
2. Color - should be no lower than an I (but I see that J is also colorless; bottom line I don’t want to be able to see ANY yellow at all in the diamond)
3. Clarity - should be at SI1 (I have seen advise showing how its not really worth it to get anything higher than that because even at that level, you cannot see blemishes with the naked eye)

So with all that in mind, I have found a few diamonds on http://www.drostes.com that I think might be pretty good deals: http://userpages.umbc.edu/~msheik1/diamonds.JPG (screen shot from the Drostes page with all the information on the 5 diamonds).

Any advice on the above would be greatly appreciated. Which diamond do you guys think would be the best from the 5? All the diamonds have good color and clarity levels but no idea on how good the cuts are; anyone have any suggestions on that?

Any other places anyone knows either online or around Washington DC, MD, Northern VA area I can go for similar deals on diamonds? Is Drostes pretty reliable?

 

[MissAva]

What is it about this setting that you like, is there anything you dislike about it? I dont know that a wedding band would sit flush with that, is it going to bother your gf if she has to have her wedding bang custom made to match, or have a gap between the two rings? You said you wanted to set a princess stone? What information were you given about the stones you saw in your local B&M? I am guessing your total budget is about 3k? Is that correct? I have never heard os Drostes...ever sorry. I would suggest that you look at Good Old Gold or Whiteflash. I do not think you are going to find a nice looking full carat princess cut for 2k. I hope these links help you.

 

[msheikh25]

Thanks for the fast reply. I was actually still updating the post (I think the link for the 5 diamonds was posted wrong earlier)

I like the split in the ring. The one in the picture looks kinda funny b/c of the shape of the diamond but I thought it looked nice with a princess cut. I know it would be difficult to get a wedding band to work with it but I think the ring looks really nice. I am just not a big fan of the average looking engagement solitare style ring. I also heard that you can get wedding bands customized so that may be an option. I have not actually gotten the ring but I think it is on the top of my list for now.
I know its going to be difficult to find a great diamond in my price range but I did find a couple (did you take alook at the link; I think it was messed up before, I fixed it now incase you didnt get a chance to see it). Please let me know if you have any comments/suggestions as far as those diamonds go.

Also, Is it really worth getting a certified diamond for an engagement ring? I mean this is not really anything I ever plan on selling off so does it really matter if it is certified? As long as I get an appraisal showing that the value is equal to or greater than what I paid for it, that should be good enough right? And as far as the quality goes, from the five diamonds I found, they all seem to have decent color/clarity levels. So if they dont look yellow and shine nicely, again does it matter if it is not certified?

 

[E B]

Hi!

I see you've been doing your research on the 4 Cs, so...how about this stone? GIA certified, Ideal cut:

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-1133342.htm#

Or these, a bit smaller (but Hearts and Arrows) from Good Old Gold:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/0_624ct__i_vs2_h%26a.htm

http://www.goodoldgold.com/0_618ct_h_si1_h%26a.htm

About the J stone I listed, I listed it to let you know I, a 22 year old girl that loves the look of diamonds, can't tell a J from a G when face up. Unless your girlfriend is really color sensitive, I can pretty much assure you that she wouldn't be able to tell a difference either. Take a look at this thread if you don't believe me:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/j-color-stones-in-platinum.24731/

eta: Sorry, I tried to fix the links but they won't fix! Copy and paste will have to do.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I am sorry I just don''t see how you are going to get anything close to a ct. for $2,000. Also are you sure you want to spend 1/3 of your budget on the setting. I love interesting and unique settings but if money is really any issue I rather have a nicer stone. Anything custom means $$$. You could always propose with a solitare and get it re-set for the wedding. Good luck.

 

[E B]

I guess I should read posts more clearly, or else I miss details like you wanting a 1 carat (and a princess cut...way to read, Emily!). For $2000 and under, a well cut Princess is very very unlikely. A nice .75 cut princess is possible, though. Cut, as you''ve stated, should be the #1 most important thing about your diamond. A well cut .75 will sparkle like mad, a poorly cut 1 carat wouldn''t compare.

 

[MissAva]

Date: 10/1/2005 7:26:38 PM
Author: msheikh25

Thanks for the fast reply. I was actually still updating the post (I think the link for the 5 diamonds was posted wrong earlier)

I like the split in the ring. The one in the picture looks kinda funny b/c of the shape of the diamond but I thought it looked nice with a princess cut. I know it would be difficult to get a wedding band to work with it but I think the ring looks really nice. I am just not a big fan of the average looking engagement solitare style ring. I also heard that you can get wedding bands customized so that may be an option. I have not actually gotten the ring but I think it is on the top of my list for now.

I know its going to be difficult to find a great diamond in my price range but I did find a couple (did you take alook at the link; I think it was messed up before, I fixed it now incase you didnt get a chance to see it). Please let me know if you have any comments/suggestions as far as those diamonds go.

Also, Is it really worth getting a certified diamond for an engagement ring? I mean this is not really anything I ever plan on selling off so does it really matter if it is certified? As long as I get an appraisal showing that the value is equal to or greater than what I paid for it, that should be good enough right? And as far as the quality goes, from the five diamonds I found, they all seem to have decent color/clarity levels. So if they dont look yellow and shine nicely, again does it matter if it is not certified?

It is worth it to get it certified, it is a MUST! Pictures can be misleading and I did not see anything about cut information and quite frankly I did not like the Drostes web page, their picutres of diamonds were not pretty ones, and thier "ideal cut round" picture would not be ideal cut to me.

The user page link does not work.... Seriously if you do not have a cert that would make me very uncomfertable. I am unwilling to look at anything without one, it simply is not worth the risk. I know Capitil Bill is in your area, but I am unsure if he carries much that would suit your tastes/budget. I would say PM him and see what he can do for you. Seriously though you are MUCH better off getting a smaller better cut diamond then buying a larger and lower qulaity one.

Also you need to remember her prefrences in this too.

 

[Kaleigh]

I would much rather see you getting a smaller well cut diamond than a larger one that isn''t well cut. Also I would put more money into the diamond than into the setting, JMHO.

 

[msheikh25]

wow...first time I have tried using posts and I love the quick responses!!

Anyhoo...I thought it might be difficult to do something under $2000 also, but did anyone take a look at the few I have found @ http://userpages.umbc.edu/~msheik1/diamonds.JPG (make sure you look at the pictured fully enlarged when it displays)

From what you are saying Emily, it sounds like i can even kick the color down a notch from the five I picked out and go with a J. All the ones I found have really nice color/clarity levels....just have no idea how the cuts are. Can anyone tell if the cuts are any good from the measurements listed?

 

[Tacori E-ring]

www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com is having a Princess Cut sale. Check out their stones. I know many PSers have been pleased with them.

 

[MissAva]

Sorry that is what I tried to say before, there is not enough cut info. But I can tell you that they dont even look close to square which is a very poor indicator. I dont think that any of these would be worth consideration.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Unfortunately, I don''t think you''re going to find a well cut 1 carat princess I SI1 and up for $2k unless you get a great deal buying somebody''s unwanted diamond off of them. I would definitely prioritize cut quality and lab report over bigger size and would consider J color and SI2 clarity if 3/4 carat is too small.

The only stone in that price range I could find with cut info:

0.79 I VS1

 

[valeria101]

Date: 10/1/2005 9:10:32 PM
Author: phoenixgirl

The only stone in that price range I could find with cut info:

0.79 I VS1

And that is 'rectangular' too (any with length / width > 1.05 wold be called so on GIA reports). Not sure that's a bad thing though...

Now, I am not sure that such small deviations from squareness are really a problem, if otherwise the diamond looks good to you. For prncess cuts, the rectangular may end up producing a large bow-tie on the long side (=two dull patches). Sometimes this is not true because other details of the cut may compensate, but because of the potential fault all rectangular princess cuts got a bad name. This tells me you could find a nice one with a bit of discount among rectangular princess cuts, but... only if you get to see them and make sure the shape is not indeed a detraction in the case.

If the stone is not exactly as large as a sawcer, the one thing that makes it stand out is brilliance, IMO... so, I'd take care of that before color, clarity and size. Staying below 1 carat should do fine especially given that the actual size (= dimeter not weight) of princess diamonds vaies allot with their proportions. So finding pieces around .9 cts and 1 carat of the same size is not hard at all despite the price differences.

Just some 0.2 worth... Hope some helps.

Do you know that the end user

likes this sort of rings ? If not sure, those simple 'presentation' solitaires are a good way to not do it wrong.

 

[msheikh25]

Ok, I took what you all had to say and continued to look around. First of all, The ring that I picked out looks closer to this: http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/engagement-detail.cfm?did=E10

except again the total weight is .16 (so its about half the price in 14k white gold at $900) and the diamond sits higher up on it and not into the ring like this one. I kind of like the diamond to sit lower like in this more expensive one but the other will do nicely also.

Anyways...as far as the diamonds go, I still think the ones on the chart above are good prices. The comments about all of them being off from a square did have me concerned but as it seems, almost all princess cuts are like that. As Valeria101 mentioned, even the .79 carat one suggested by Pheonexgirl is pretty off from a square, even though it is classified as a princess cut. It makes me think that the few mm of a difference is not that big a deal and has to be pretty significant for it to actually look rectangular.


I found a chart listing the following Preferred Proportions for Princess Cut Diamonds:
Depth Percentage: 64.0% - 75.0%
Table Percentage: 59% - 72%
Polish: Good to excellent
Symmetry: Good to excellent
Girdle: Thin to thick

But I found out that all fancy shapes, like princess cuts, are actually NOT classified into any categories of cuts like Ideal, Good, etc. So when you do see a category listed for a fancy shaped diamond, its just the retailers or wholesalers subjective decision to put it in whatever category u find it. So there is no way for me to really be able to know how grate the cut is on a princess cut.

But I did decide to go with the www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com site instead of www.Drostes.com because the dirt cheap place is actually based out of Maryland and i will go take a look at the diamond I find before making a purchse. I found the following two diamonds that I am interested in from this site....let me know what you guys think of these:

#1) Princess Cut - 1.04 carat - H SI2 EGL $1,840 (Classified in the premium cut category but again, its a fancy shape so who knows)
depth % = 72.3
table % = 76
polish = GD
symm = GD
flr = None
measurements = 5.99x5.42x3.92

#2) Round Cut - 0.84 J SI2 EGL $1,744 (Classified as an Ideal cut, which should be the best)
depth % = 60.5
table % = 57
polish = VG
symm = VG
flr = None
measurements = 6.07x6.12x3.69

Both are EGL which people say you should knock down the color and clarity levels down a notch for considering their reputation. So the 1.04 is still not bad for color, but clarity might have to seen.

 

[MissAva]

The setting you posted from DCD looks like a much nicer setting IMO.

Another issue with Princess cuts is the corners have a tendency to chip. Again looking at the stones you posted...I would be hesistent becuase of the EGL factor the first one would just be way to far off square for me...half a mm.

The other seems to be closer to square but a J from EGL the color comes into play. When are you going to see them?

 

[belle]

there is a big difference between a round and a princess. most people have fairly strong opinions as to what they prefer, especially for an e-ring. i think you should focus on the shape that would please the wearer most and go from there.

 

[msheikh25]

This example of the ring is a lot more true to the actual one that I am going to get from Christian Bernard. Just picture the diamond sitting a little higher, as it does on most engagment rings. I actually saw a nice band to go with it also. The band curved a bit so it fit nicely with no gaps. It is .19 carat and $600 for 14k gold.

I called dirt cheap diamonds earlier to inquire about the two diamonds i found; unfortunately they cant find out if they are available until Thursday b/c the vendors are closed for Rosh Hashana. So I would like to go in by Friday and hopefully get something, even if these two are not available.

I was warned about the EGL ratings and how they are ususally off by a grade or even two in the color and clarity levels. The color for the 1.04 seems safe, but the clarity does make me a bit nervous. I would like to take a look at it and see if there are any visible blemishes. I did see a sample of a diamond over the weekend which had a visible blemish; I still feel like that is something that would only bother the experienced and trained eye. It seemed almost non-existant to me.

The measuments are kind of off on that one but according to valeria101''s post, thats not even necessarily a bad thing. It might be just how the diamond was meant to be cut. As long as it does not look rectangular to the naked eye and cause any mounting problems, it should be good hopefully.

 

[valeria101]

Sounds like a good plan to me (for what that matters). I must say I have no inclination to preffer colorless diamonds, and you may well find once the diamond is infront of you that EGL''s J is perfectly ok. from that point of view. Or... who knows. With the two diamonds at DCD I would worry first about inclusions - SI2 may mean nothing shows or a splatter of black in the middle of the thing

and there is no way to know until someone gets to inspect the goods in person.

As much as the pictures can show, the ring looks lovely. How well they are made I cannot tell, but the sample looks encouraging for that too. The maker of these rings turns out substantially more intricate designs in the same line - so this makes me think it can''t be bad.

Best of luck! You bet I''ll be looking for the next post here

PS: about the chart - there are many like that, as you said. Perhaps that particular chart makes the second pick sound ''shallow''. Insofar I have yet to hear of a good explanation why ''good'' pricess cuts are either 60% or 65% or 70% deep or whatever - I unerstand why one would set cut standards based on optics and there are reasonable explanations for that, but the cutoffs of depth and table used here and there to define cut quality by themselves do not come with comparable examplanations... Even if virtually every shop/websites mentions somewhere that there is such thing as diamonds too shallow or too deep cut, they do not seem to agree where this begins and how it works. But, you''ve seen that already as much as I can tell from your post. And this is only my opinion here - nothing better.

For princess cuts there is an AGS ''ideal'' (an AGS0 cut grade just like there is one such thing for the rounds) and this is based on research about the optics of this cut, just like the similar grade for rounds is. There aren''t too many AGS0 princess cuts around yet but they have been talked about quite a bit on this forum already. I am just writing this for the sake of precission, You may want to see one of those just FYU, but otherwise I would not jump to the comnclusion that non-branded princess cuts are now passe.

Just my o.2.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I really like the second setting you posted (from dirtcheap) IMHO I was not a fan of the first setting. I think it would look great with a princess!

 

[MissAva]

Do you have any pictures? Or idealscope images?

 

[msheikh25]

Are you talking about pictures of the diamonds? I dont have any of those. I have to call tomorrow to find out if they are even in stock and then go look at them. Should I take pictures and maybe up load them here? Is it possible to tell quality from the pictures?

Here are the links to the two though:

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=6798214

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=7912372

 

[MissAva]

Ask for pictures, and ideal scope images...or you could try and take pictures through a loupe.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 10/6/2005 12:19:51 AM
Author: msheikh25

Is it possible to tell quality from the pictures?

Depends on the pictures... allot. If neither you nor the seller can get details, than llooking at them is just good fun.

IMO, the darkfield shots taken to show clarity by GoodOldGold and the diffuse light pictures showing optical symmetry at Whiteflash are rather successful. Neither show the brilliance and beauty of diamonds, but help with specific treats of ;quality''. IdealScope and Asset pictures do the same in a different way. Other sellers have each their own trademark way of showing diamonds. Of course I prefer to have the things at hand... but... that is a different story and looking at just one diamond with no way to compare many and without knowing otherwise what to look for is less helpful than the slightly ''abstract'' show online, IMO.

Hope this is not too confusing

Just IMO, of course.

 

[E B]

How about looking at this one, too?

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=8975570

E/SI1 .69 carat Princess. GIA certified, EX/VG, and much closer to a perfect square than I've seen on this topic thus far.

 

[msheikh25]

I will take a digi cam with me that has up to a 4x optical zoom. Would I be able to take pictures through a loupe with a digital camera?

Another place I found that has somewhat decent prices is the Jewelery Factory (also Jewelery Exchange in some places). I am in the Washington DC area and there is a Jewelry Factory store here in Bethesda. Does anyone have any experience with them? Are their non-certified diamonds usually any good?

 

[msheikh25]

How is this diamond? http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=9312997

Take a look at the GIA certificate that is on the site; does that cloud listed in the middle seem like it would be visible to the naked eye? It is an SI2 by GIA standards and usually that is supposed to be inclusions only with 10x. Other than that, I think the diamond seems like a really good deal...just trying to see if I should be worried about the inclusions that are listed.

 

[MissAva]

I have a few issues with thte one you just posted, it says that the diamond in the picture is the one they are selling. But the picture is labeled sample diamond.

 

[msheikh25]

On www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com all of the diamonds are labeled like that - they say that the picture is for the diamond but it is actually a sample picture. This diamond does have a scan of the GIA certificate though. Any other issues you see with this diamond that should be considered?

 

[MissAva]

You had orignally stated that you wantd to stay under 2k for the diamond. This one is well over that, also I would say need to ask about the points, and get pictures of the diamond in order to ensure that it is eye-clean. I see that they say most SIs are eye-clean but eyecleans is term that is difficult to pin down, and what is to them night not be to you. Really it is nearly impossible to make assumptions by numbers only with a princess. You can use them to exclude certain stones but not all. Really you need pictures of the actual stone and ideal scope images. What about a stone like this one from WF?
/images/site/d_lostF.jpg

 

[MissAva]

Here is the ideal-scope image, yes it is out of square but I think it is still very lovely. That is why numbers are so hard to use for judging of a princess. This one is just under your 2k budget with the bank discount.
/images/site/d_lost.jpg