Need help buying an emerald cut engagement ring

[primetimeseano]

I'm looking to buy an engagement ring in the next couple of months (I need to have it by December at the latest, but I'm probably going to buy in September or October). My girlfriend loves emerald cut diamonds. She's specifically mentioned how much she likes this ring from Birks:

http://www.maisonbirks.com/en/bague-de-fiancailles-en-diamants-canadiens-de-coupe-emeraude-2838

This one from Tiffany & Co. is the same idea:

http://www.tiffany.ca/Engagement/It...engagement&search_params=param+1004/0/0/0/0/0

I'm planning on buying online, since I think I can find much better value. In terms of a budget, I'm looking at about $10,000 Canadian. I"d be willing to a bit higher for the right ring, but certainly no more than $11,000 at the very most. I found this setting at James Allen that looks fairly similar:

http://www.jamesallen.com/wedding-r...set-engagement-ring-emerald-center-item-18465

It doesn't seem quite as spectacular as those other ones. It seems like the metal shows up more in the halo on the James Allen one, whereas the diamonds dominate and sparkle on the Birks and Tiffany's rings, if that makes sense. I'm wondering if maybe that's due to differences in the photography techniques of the sites.

I know I want a platinum ring. The halo of little diamonds around the main diamond isn't necessarily a must, although I would like something that closely resemebles the Birks and Tiffany's rings.

With that being said, does anyone have any advice for me? I've been looking at that ring from James Allen with diamonds that cost around $7,000 Canadian. My biggest concern is getting the best value for my money. I also favour quality over sheer size. Is James Allen the way to go? What should I be looking for in an emerald cut diamond? Any other advice on the diamond or the ring?

Cheers

 

[Gypsy]

Both the Birks and the Tiffany are photoshopped images.
The JA first image is a CAD. But if you look at the one below it, it links you to 1.52 radiant center stone in the actual setting. It's actually a lovely setting. And I think a very nice choice.



Let's set your budget at 10k CAD and 9200 USD for the ring. Save the other 1k CAD for the import taxes and such. Unless you are in a part of Canada near the US border, then there are options you might have.

So if the setting is 3100 platinum. Then that leaves 7100 for the center stone.

Emerald cuts are a bit hard to shop for. You kind of have to jump on them when you find the right one.

Here's what you need to shop for:

Emerald cuts:
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king. With fancies though (anything other than a round brilliant), that is a little complicated. But no other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.

There really is no other way to determine if you have a good emerald cut is to see images of the stones, and then you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.

That's what an ASET image does. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance Please read.
And ASET shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return That is why you won't see us recommending vendors like Blue Nile, as they do not provide images or ASET images for their diamonds. James Allen and Good Old Gold do this. So do Brian Gavin, B2C and Whiteflash and High Performance Diamonds. ERD does too, for stones they source for you.


HORRIBLE ASET (Grade F):

Great ASET (Grade A):


Also helpful are videos and GOG and JA have videos. So you can see the stone in motion and see how the facets flash on and off.

Stick to H VS2 or better and eyeclean. Even I would be fine.
Most important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set.
Generally we say to be conservative stay H and above.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

 

[Gypsy]

This one might be worth your time. It's very spready (dimensions are big for carat weight). And it's got potential in terms of cut and patterning. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.37-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-323756

Slightly above budget but if you are near the border you might be able to afford it. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-286038

 

[motownmama]

Also - note that Gypsy's suggestions are VS1 or VS2. Inclusions are very visible and distracting (for me at least) in emerald cuts - you'll want to stay in those higher clarities with your stone.

 

[primetimeseano]

Thanks so much for the long and detailed reply! Where do you find the ASET images on the James Allen website?

Also, I see a lot about "eyeclean". However, when I look at a lot of fairly high-grade diamonds on the James Allen website, I can see a lot of the inclusions in both the image and on the certificate. For example, I can see a few on the 1.37 carat diamond you linked to. The 1.5 carat one looks cleaner, even though the clarity grade is lower. Is this just because of the magnification?

Thanks again. I really appreciate your time.

 

[primetimeseano]

For a typical engagement ring, is there any advantage to going for VVS2, VVS1 or IF diamonds? That's what I was looking at because I read clarity is very important, but even the Birks diamond looks like it would be either VS1 or VS2. Thanks!

 

[Fancygems]

No there is no advantage, vs1 is fantastic most vs2's and some si1 are even eye clean.

 

[Niel]

For a typical engagement ring, is there any advantage to going for VVS2, VVS1 or IF diamonds? That's what I was looking at because I read clarity is very important, but even the Birks diamond looks like it would be either VS1 or VS2. Thanks!

That's a bit of hype for the normal consumer.

High clarity is an indication of purity, some people value that. But if your goal is an eye clean white looking diamond, you need not overpay for the "peace of mind" of high clarity.

To look at it another way. VS clarity in emerald cuts are typically eye clean. Meaning when you look at it, you don't see the inclusion. So if you can't see them at IF clarity, and you can't see them at VS1 clarity- you are essentially paying for something you can't see I'd you buy an IF clarity.
Sometimes with fancies its unavoidable. Meaning, you have to go for the best cut, and great cut emeralds are harder to find than rounds. So if all you can find in budget with a great cut is a VVS stone, then you're stuck paying for VVS clarity. But cross that bridge if you get to it. Don't specifically aim for high clarity because you might as well put your money into what you CAN see, i.e. size and color, and not toward something you cannot.

 

[Gypsy]

A. On clarity. You are talking about something that is about 5mm by 7mm blown up 40X on a computer screen. That's not how you wear diamonds.

B) JA ASETs: You put the stone on hold and ask for one. It will take 3 business days. Then you post them here. And we'll help you.

 

[primetimeseano]

That's great! Thanks again!

One other question I thought of: Do the specs on the smaller stones on the setting have any bearing on what you look for in the main diamond? Do you try to match the colour and clarity at all, or does it matter?

 

[Niel]

That's great! Thanks again!

One other question I thought of: Do the specs on the smaller stones on the setting have any bearing on what you look for in the main diamond? Do you try to match the colour and clarity at all, or does it matter?

Yes and no.

Let's say you were doing a 3 stone with smaller emerald cut sides. You would want them to be within one range of color (clarity goes back to "as long as its eye clean")

But for small pave settings like the one you are getting, not really. Small diamonds like that will really just show as sparkling white areas, they look different than larger stones, the color of them isn't exactly noticeable. As long as you are getting a colorless or near colorless center stone there should be no reason to concern yourself with the color contrast of the melee. If you drop down to jk or say M colored diamonds, then it starts to be noticeable.

Personally because you're looking at I or above. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[primetimeseano]

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.35-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-360095

Thoughts on this diamond? It seems to have pretty big dimensions for the carat weight, and the color and clarity are both pretty good. It's a little on the long side, but I'd prefer that to something squarish. From what I've seen, I seem to like a ratio of about 1.4 the best.

 

[Niel]

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.35-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-360095

Thoughts on this diamond? It seems to have pretty big dimensions for the carat weight, and the color and clarity are both pretty good. It's a little on the long side, but I'd prefer that to something squarish. From what I've seen, I seem to like a ratio of about 1.4 the best.

That's not a good candidate. It has no crown, and the faceting isn't good. You don't want a big black band in the middle of your stone, right.

 

[Niel]

of the Ja stones in your budget, i liked that one Gypsy posted, and then

this

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.30-carat-i-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-219686

and maybe

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.30-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-323906

 

[Niel]

This one might be worth your time. It's very spready (dimensions are big for carat weight). And it's got potential in terms of cut and patterning. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.37-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-323756

Slightly above budget but if you are near the border you might be able to afford it. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-286038

also i love this 1.5 If you like that size, consider maybe this setting? the halo is a different way to set diamonds in a halo, has that band of metal around it, but the shank certainly reminds me of the Birks ring

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/vintage/platinum-octagon-halo-diamond-engagement-ring-item-50004

 

[primetimeseano]

I like the band, but I don't like metal edge around the halo. Plus it doesn't take an emerald cut center stone from the looks of it. Thanks anyway though!

 

[primetimeseano]

I've requested ASET images for these four diamonds that Gypsy and Niel recommended:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.37-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-323756
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-286038
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.30-carat-i-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-219686
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.30-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-323906

I really like all four of them, but it's tempting to spring for the big one!

 

[Gypsy]

It's not on hold yet. Confirm that. And also, they only allow 3 ASETs. So make sure that you know which ones are you top three. And yes, I would include the big on in the top three.

Remember to compare dimensions NOT carat weight with Emeralds.

 

[primetimeseano]

Here's the response I got from their rep:

Sorry for the late reply. After looking over the diamonds I would eliminate 323756 mainly because it is a VG polish and symmetry while your other diamonds are all Excellent polish with VG symmetry.

So of the remaining three I would say 2169866 speaks to me based on how clean, white and the inclusions are a pinpoint & feather. So I would select this diamond and the other two for images.

So these will be the three candidates:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-286038
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.30-carat-i-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-219686
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.30-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-323906

What do you think of her advice? Are their sales reps generally pretty honest?

 

[Gypsy]

Please don't listen to them.

They NEVER know what the heck they are talking about when it comes to step cuts. ESPECIALLY the sales people. But their gemologists get it wrong most of the time too with step cuts. .

Seriously. There is NOTHING wrong with VG polish and symmetry in a EC and it has nothing to do with the performance of the stone which is what matters.

Just... ignore the JA sales people. Please.

Pick the three largest stones-- via spread.

Okay?

 

[Niel]

I like the band, but I don't like metal edge around the halo. Plus it doesn't take an emerald cut center stone from the looks of it. Thanks anyway though!

That's cool if it's not her style . But I wanted to respond by saying - even though it doesn't explicitly list a certain cut in the shapes available- typically they will try and accommodate you. Just in case a lurker is reading

 

[primetimeseano]

I got another email from a different rep looking to confirm the diamonds, so I swapped 323906 for 323756. I went by surface area, and 323906 was the smallest by about half a square millimetre. Hahaha.

So here's the final list of the ones I'll be getting ASET images for:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.30-carat-i-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-219686
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-286038
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.37-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-323756

I'm excited to get these! My only concern is that the new rep told me "this is a one-time courtesy service intended for customers who are preparing to make their purchase". Hopefully the images come back looking good, or it might be tough to get images for other diamonds.

 

[primetimeseano]

Here's another question: how accurate are those moveable images on the James Allen website when it comes to color? The diamonds look good to me, but I'm continuing to do research, and it seems like I-graded diamonds are right on the fringe of what's considered acceptable for emerald cuts (some sites say G or H as a minimum). Also, there's some disparity in the images I've found online. Some of the I diamonds look great, while others have a noticeably yellowish tinge. However, I see the James Allen ones are all GIA-graded, so I'm thinking that maybe they're true I diamonds, while some of the other ones I've looked at may fall a little lower on the scale. Does the fact that I'm looking at a platinum setting give me more flexibility on the color side since the stone will take on the hue of the metal? Thanks, and sorry for all the questions. I really appreciate all the help I'm getting on here. I would have made a much different (worse) selection without all of this advice.

 

[primetimeseano]

I got a response on the ASET images:

Thank you for your patience while waiting for the ASET images of diamonds 323906, 286038, and 219686. I've attached an interpretation guide for ASET images to the bottom of this email, so please read that over. Other customers have found it very helpful and I hope you agree!

You have a really beautiful lineup to choose from, all of which have a bright appearance! It's a close race, but diamond 323906 is the victor in terms of light performance. It has a nice balance of brightness and is very eye catching. It is the whitest of your lineup and appears completely eye clean.

Diamond 286038 is the largest and has great light performance, ranking a strong second for brightness. It's eye clean and possesses a true "I" color. Diamond 219686 is your third brightest, but still has very nice light performance. It too is eye clean and has a true "I" color.

Each of them has a very appealing emerald cut, so I feel that light performance and size will be the deal breaker in determining which will be the perfect diamond for you. If you want the brightest diamond of the bunch, you'll want to finalize a purchase of diamond 323906. However, if size is most important to you, diamond 286038 will be the way to go.

Please take a moment to review this information and let me know if you have any additional questions. I have extended your hold on these diamonds for an additional 24 hours while you consider your options. If I don't hear back from you, I'll reach out to you within 24 hours to see if you need any assistance in finalizing a purchase. After that time we will release them back to our inventory.

To finalize a purchase, simply call our Customer Service department at 877-826-9866. We are staffed to assist you 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Please don't hesitate to contact us with any additional questions. I hope to hear from you soon.

Best Regards,


Adam

ASET History & Interpretation Guide
The ASET camera system was developed by AGS several years back as a method of determining the different types of light return/reflection in a diamond. The ASET camera system is based on the simple idea that as light travels towards a diamond, the direction of that light can be captured and recorded by a filter (or cone) placed above the diamond and painted (or colored) into different horizontal sections.
The bottom section of the filter is colored GREEN and represents light that comes from the horizontal plane. This light is often called "INDIRECT LIGHT" and so any GREEN in the diamond image is good and represents that indirect light being reflected back to the camera. The middle section of the filter is colored RED and represents light that comes from the most common angles (such as lights in a ceiling, the sun, etc). This light is referred to as DIRECT LIGHT. Since direct light is most common in real-life viewing environments, we hope to see lots of RED in the captured ASET image. The more RED, the better job the diamond is doing at reflecting light from its primary light sources. The top section of the filter is colored BLUE and represents light that is often blocked by the viewers head/body. This light is generally referred to as OBSTRUCTED. Obstructed light is important for creating contrast in a diamond and is what makes the arrows "pop" in a Hearts & Arrows diamond. Seeing BLUE in an ASET image is also good, although there should not be too much of it. Lastly, the camera can capture areas in the diamond where light is "leaking", or not being reflected back to the viewer. In the ASET camera developed by AGS, this leakage is shown as BLACK.

Here are the images:

323906 (Link: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.30-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-323906):



286038 (Link: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-286038):



219686 (Link: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.30-carat-i-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-219686):




What's the verdict?

 

[Gypsy]

I'd buy this one: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-286038
Why?
BIG difference is size (spread: 7.77xx 5.58 versus the H at 6.94 x 5.34). Small difference in performance per gemologists report with the 1.3H. And the ASET of this one is stronger, which makes me think that it will actually be the brighter stone when set (as opposed to held up in tweezers the way gemologists examine the stones).
There's no contest for me at all. I'd would by this stone in a heartbeat.

 

[RetroTreeGal]

Please don't listen to them.

They NEVER know what the heck they are talking about when it comes to step cuts. ESPECIALLY the sales people.

Wow, you weren't kidding. I know I'm still a newbie, but it seems like the salesman pretty much recommended the stone with the worst ASET. To my eyes, your winner of these 3 is the biggun.

 

[primetimeseano]

Ok, so the final prices look like this (in Canadian dollars):

219686 - $6311
286038 - $8364
323906 - $7100

The setting is $3,350.

So for totals, it looks like this (including the 5% sales tax I'll have to pay when the ring arrives):

219686 - $10,144.05
286038 - $12,299.70
323906 - $10,972.50

My initial budget was $10,000. It was never a hard number, but I'm not sure about going $2,300 over, because I actually really like 219686. It looks basically perfect to me (which makes sense, since it is a VVS1). It's also only about six square millimeters smaller by area (37.60 vs. 43.36). Really, it's between those two for me. For what it's worth, I note that both have faint fluorescence (the James Allen listing for the big one doesn't match its GIA certificate).

To me, it's really down to those two. I'm not sold on 323906. I guess what I'm looking for is justification for paying the extra money. Is that extra area going to be noticeable? Does better ASET mean it'll look much better, even with the more visible inclusions? The ASET for the big one definitely stood out to me right away due to its symmetry (I'm not sure if that matters, but after reading the guide the sales rep sent me, it still seems to be the best one to me too).

Thanks again for all of the help. I've learned a ton from you guys.

 

[Gypsy]

I don't like that you are so over budget on the 1.5 carat.
If going into budget puts you in debt or anything. Then don't do it.

The 86 stone for me isn't a contender. The gemologist didn't have much to say about it. And the ASET is the weakest, actually.


You wanted the halo setting right? In platinum? Yeah, that's an expensive setting.

Only you can make the decision at this point. What does your gut tell you?

 

[Gypsy]

Six square mm is a lot in diamond sizes. I think the primary difference is going to be in size between the two. As long as the stone is eyeclean, the clarity is not going to make a difference at all, and frankly I'd be thrilled not to pay a premium for extra clarity like a VVS. Color will make a small difference and so will size.

 

[primetimeseano]

My gut tells me to go for the bigger diamond. I definitely won't be going into debt for it. It's just that I tend to be a value-oriented guy, and I want to be able to justify the extra expense to myself. That's my only real concern. I guess when it comes down to it, I'm bothered by being able to see a few specs in the diamond on the blown-up view, which I know I shouldn't care about. It's just my OCD tendencies coming out From what you're telling me though, the 1.50 isn't just a bit bigger, it's better overall, notwithstanding a few specs.