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Leon Mege's website blasts the HCA

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kenny

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Wow! This was very surprising!
Isn't Mege a PS sponsor?
Isn't Garry Holloway part owner of PS?

https://www.leonmege.com/articles/item/277-hca



HCA score to trap consumers

Summary
- Not recognized by any gemological lab in the world
- Not used by professionals in the trade
- Not supported by any scientific research
- Obscure and unknown to most professionals
- Deceptive marketing tool
- Promoted by self-proclaimed diamond “experts,” who are, in reality, operatives of the “pay-per-referral” scheme
- The score is skewed towards an arbitrarily picked range of preferences
- Misleading - does not reflect the stone’s actual appearance or beauty
- The disclaimer renders the results meaningless

Among all the gimmicks designed to promote proprietary standards in diamond grading, nothing is more sinister than the infamous HCA calculator. A close cousin of the Magic 8 Ball, this is a marketing tool that is supposed to calculate a round diamond grade based on just few parameters.

Using truncated metrics in diamond evaluation is akin to deciding a beauty pageant without seeing the actual contestants, but using their measurements instead. Measurements are important, but even Donald Trump would be dumbfounded if asked to judge such a contest.

That’s why jewelry professionals don’t take HCA seriously. As a matter of fact, most of us are completely oblivious to the fact that it even exists.

Move over Mr. Trump, here comes Gary Holloway hailing from the land of Skippy the Bush Kangaroo. An online calculator that can tell which diamond is beautiful and which one is not is created.

While Louvre and Hermitage are still waiting for Gary to build a robot that is able to decide which Leonardo painting should be displayed and which one should be tossed into a dumpster, Mr. Holloway is busy selling diamonds with his own stamp of approval.

In order to get an HCA score of a diamond, you need to copy values from the diamond report, such as total depth, table, crown depth or angle, pavilion depth or angle, and the culet size.

The results are displayed in a form with a score, the lowest being the best. There is no explanation on how such whimsical properties as fire or scintillation could possibly be quantified (let’s leave this mystery unsolved for a now). There is also a “factor” called “Spread”. The difference in diameter between a “Good” and “Very Good” spread on a one carat stone is a meager 0.1 mm - the thickness of a sheet of a paper.

Looking at the chart above, one might be thrilled to find an extremely rare stone. Oops, here is the same stone with a 60% table. Same excellent grade across the board. The psychedelic chart on the right changed it’s shape (what is it? what voodoo science does it represent?) to leave no doubt in our mind that behind the scene some important calculations were actually performed.

Let’s look at a stone with a significantly lower score but fairly reasonable proportions:

Now we changed the crown angle to an extremely steep 40° and depth to a ridiculous 66%. The score increased to 4.3 from a low 5.3!!!!!!! What the @#$% ? The 40.5 degree pavilion angle improves the score even when the rest of the metrics are way out of normal range.

No wonder the following disclaimer is displayed with every result: “Even though HCA grades cut more effectively than systems like the AGS, it does not yet factor in symmetry and minor facets. Having found a diamond that scores well, you should employ an expert appraiser to examine the stone. If you decide not to, then at least compare the diamond to others and/or view it through an ideal-scope.”

Translation: “Congratulations! You just performed the incomprehensible task of calculating a meaningless number. In case anyone questions it, you are on your own. Now that you are confused and disoriented, we expect you to buy from us because we are the only ones to possess the secret knowledge of what that number actually stands for.”

Infinite bull$^#@!&*^

The HCA calculation doesn’t take into account factors such as symmetry or minor facet variation. The calculation is based on arbitrarily decided preferred parameters and any deviation will be punished by a poor score with complete disregard to overall proportions and appearance.

HCA is a lobotomized version of a GIA evaluation calculator that is available only to trade members. The GIA score does account for symmetry, polish, and minor facet data. And what’s more important, the GIA score is not presented as a verdict but as a mere advisory.

Last point to make - all diamonds are three dimensional objects observed at many different

screen_shot_2016-05-21_at_1.png
 

Fantspants

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Leon|1463820954|4034342 said:
Move over Mr. Trump, here comes Gary Holloway hailing from the land of Skippy the Bush Kangaroo

I totally do not see the significance of that sentence other than to be rude? Or Obvious? Why does it matter.

What a weird article, the whole thing looks like a childish rant rather than the opinion of a professional.
 

ADN

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Fantspants|1463822348|4034344 said:
Leon|1463820954|4034342 said:
Move over Mr. Trump, here comes Gary Holloway hailing from the land of Skippy the Bush Kangaroo

I totally do not see the significance of that sentence other than to be rude? Or Obvious? Why does it matter.

What a weird article, the whole thing looks like a childish rant rather than the opinion of a professional.

Leon...mate I'll take Skippy over Trump any day of the week ;-)...
 

gr8leo87

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From the summary, here are few good points in my opinion:

- Not recognized by any gemological lab in the world

- Not used by professionals in the trade

- Obscure and unknown to most professionals

- The score is skewed towards an arbitrarily picked range of preferences

- The disclaimer renders the results meaningless

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

gr8leo87

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60% depth, 56% table, 38° crown angle, 40° pavilion angle,

Here are some rubbish numbers i used with the HCA.

It came back 0.7. w00t.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

Niel

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gr8leo87|1463830524|4034360 said:
From the summary, here are few good points in my opinion:

- Not recognized by any gemological lab in the world

- Not used by professionals in the trade

- Obscure and unknown to most professionals

- The score is skewed towards an arbitrarily picked range of preferences

- The disclaimer renders the results meaningless

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


These are valid points and if made in a respected and professional manner would have really been more effective .

But he's boorish and crass and would rather lead with those "qualities"
 

Tourmaline

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Leon has used almost pornographic images with utterly inappropriate commentary in marketing his jewelry on Facebook (I thought he was hacked, but the same image was on his website), he has held diamonds hostage and has been downright abusive to customers. This latest thing (his toddler tantrum about the HCA) is no surprise. The real surprise is that PS still endorses him.
 

Niel

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Tourmaline|1463831277|4034365 said:
Leon has used almost pornographic images with utterly inappropriate commentary in marketing his jewelry on Facebook (I thought he was hacked, but the same image was on his website), he has held diamonds hostage and has been downright abusive to customers. This latest thing (his toddler tantrum about the HCA) is no surprise. The real surprise is that PS still endorses him.
Ha!

That picture of boobs with a photoshopped necklace on it? I couldn't even believe he thought that was an appropriate thing to share. Ignoring the fact it's vulgar, it was SO CLEARLY a bad Photoshop !
 

arkieb1

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This is Leon having a tant because he is losing customers to people who recommend they buy stones that fall within a certain margin using the HCA. The bottom line is the HCA is a great tool to help people who know nothing about diamonds buy stones that are not rubbish. That was all it is designed for and that is all it should be used for, as a useful tool. It doesn't work for a whole host of stones like fancy cuts and Old Cut diamonds.

I've been on the receiving end of Leon's tants and rants and rude, childish to almost psychotic behaviour so nothing he says or does surprises me at all....
 

Niel

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arkieb1|1463833362|4034371 said:
This is Leon having a tant because he is losing customers to people who recommend they buy stones that fall within a certain margin using the HCA. The bottom line is the HCA is a great tool to help people who know nothing about diamonds buy stones that are not rubbish. That was all it is designed for and that is all it should be used for, as a useful tool. It doesn't work for a whole host of stones like fancy cuts and Old Cut diamonds.

I've been on the receiving end of Leon's tants and rants and rude, childish boarding on psychotic behaviour so nothing he says or does surprises me at all....

Ive not heard everyone's problems with him but yours alone would have me running from any business with him.


Que the brand new poster coming to defend LM
 

arkieb1

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Yes wait for it....... the brand new posters and the posters that have no feedback defending Leon are his family and friends and in some cases Leon himself with fake P/S identities...... He has appeared here to abuse me and others under numerous fake identities and still hasn't been banned from the site, just because someone is a sponsor/advertiser on this site surely there should be rules that they are not welcome back if there is continuing evidence of rude, sarcastic, unethical behaviour towards consumers and a high level of contempt for this site in general.
 

diamondseeker2006

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More of the same. This is why I can never recommend him. I honestly hope PS drops him as an advertiser after all the crazy stuff he has done, and now this.
 

diamondseeker2006

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gr8leo87|1463830874|4034363 said:
60% depth, 56% table, 38° crown angle, 40° pavilion angle,

Here are some rubbish numbers i used with the HCA.

It came back 0.7. w00t.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Are those GIA XXX numbers??? Because we really only use the HCA to narrow down GIA XXX stones. I think it works rather well for that, although I generally just use ideal cut parameters for table, depth, crown and pav angles which sort of is easier and quicker to use when looking through lists of diamonds.
 

Laila619

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Well the HCA is kinda silly at times. It gives good scores to shallower pavilion angles. My Leo diamond was a piece of junk, yet because it had a pav angle of 40.3 it got a good score, under 2. It actually had a lot of obstruction because of such a shallow pav. Of course Leon's delivery is certainly tactless.
 

Laila619

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diamondseeker2006|1463843011|4034430 said:
gr8leo87|1463830874|4034363 said:
60% depth, 56% table, 38° crown angle, 40° pavilion angle,

Here are some rubbish numbers i used with the HCA.

It came back 0.7. w00t.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Are those GIA XXX numbers??? Because we really only use the HCA to narrow down GIA XXX stones. I think it works rather well for that, although I generally just use ideal cut parameters for table, depth, crown and pav angles which sort of is easier and quicker to use when looking through lists of diamonds.

It's not a real stone, he just made up numbers to show how the HCA can be 'fooled' into rewarding stones with wonky specs a good score, just like it did my Leo.
 

pyramid

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Those of us who have been here for years know, Garry's Holloway cut advisor is not a fraud, we saw him every night in fights with other diamond professionals trying to hammer out the goods and bads and every scientific analysis diamonds they could possibly encounter. No way is it a fraud to get people to buy diamonds on Pricescope. If that were the case he would be selling his own
diamonds from his businesses in Australia and he has said several times that he does not sell here when individuals have pointedly asked him to sell to them.

Leon is certainly a very talented artist and I have never seen ring proportions better than what he produces, I will never put him down although I have never bought from him before. He is entitled to his beliefs and to put them on his own site. He is not writing
it here at Pricescope.

Garry is not a person who is corrupting the purchase of diamonds though I am sure of that. I have seen all the effort he has put into
discussing diamond light return and all the various metrics and conversations and work with the Russian scientist's Serg et al. Many discussions with Paul from Infinity Diamonds and GoodoldGold back in the days like in 2002 to 2006 perhaps. So this is not true. If there is no correlation as Leon says it is through practice of looking and using and not through fraud of any kind.

I do think the HCA makes perfect sense with the inverted proportions which Garry himself was the first person to discover. I believe he also teaches at the University in Australia on request to from the Australian Gemological Society. He has also helped and done a lot of work for the diamond industry in India. There are videos on this board regarding that. NOT A FRAUD IN ANY WAY! (this is how I am reading Leon's article, maybe I am interpreting wrongly).
 

E B

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kenny|1463820954|4034342 said:
An online calculator that can tell which diamond is beautiful and which one is not is created.

But it isn't. It's mainly used as a rejection tool, no? I've never seen a knowledgable PSer recommend a customer blindly buy a diamond based on HCA score alone.
 

mrs-b

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Hey LEON!

I'm from the land of Skippy the Bush Kangaroo.

But I tell you what, Leon. I buy a lot of jewelry. And I'm the sort of customer any jeweler wants. And I use American dollars.

And you're never getting a single one of them.

Good luck to you.
 

MissGotRocks

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It is a tool - not an exact science. I find it rather amusing that those that sell stones that usually don't score well would knock it. There will always be exceptions on the good and bad end of the HCA and those that prefer stones outside of its parameters. However, for someone who knows nothing about diamond cut - and we all fell into that place at one time or another - it can be very useful. His slam takes it to the level of ridiculous and drama never catches my eye as a useful piece of information for my own use.
 

pyramid

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The inverted proportions means that a lower pavilion angle works with a higher crown as does a lower crown angle work with a higher pavilion angle. Anyway could say here too that a 40.6 pavilion angle is a paper's width from a 40.9 pavilion. The taller diamond which Leon mentions is just that the inverted proportions working is it not!?
 

gr8leo87

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diamondseeker2006 said:
gr8leo87|1463830874|4034363 said:
60% depth, 56% table, 38° crown angle, 40° pavilion angle,

Here are some rubbish numbers i used with the HCA.

It came back 0.7. w00t.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Are those GIA XXX numbers??? Because we really only use the HCA to narrow down GIA XXX stones. I think it works rather well for that, although I generally just use ideal cut parameters for table, depth, crown and pav angles which sort of is easier and quicker to use when looking through lists of diamonds.
Well I wasn't trying to make 'that' point there, but you made a good point - it's only useful on stones with already attributed cut grades (and that also only ideals and excellents) because it takes nothing else in the account other than 4 averaged proportions reading.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

kenny

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MissGotRocks|1463846165|4034446 said:
... I find it rather amusing that those that sell stones that usually don't score well would knock it. ...



There is another sponsor here who has for years crusaded against legitimate cut tools and even the ideal of good light performance itself. :roll: :nono:
For over a decade I've watched the respected pros here try to reason with and teach this man, but he pretends to not get it or insist 2+2=5.
He is a master at obfuscating a discussion with smoke and mirrors.
What blows my mind is his poor-me victim thing works on some members, and people here actually buy from him. :o

You all know whom I'm talking about.
I don't feel like getting banned again for telling the truth so I won't post his name.

There may not be pornography on his website but my opinion of him as a professional and of his ethics is also rock bottom.

IMO this is all about protecting the sales of some diamonds in their vaults that these tools reveal to have poor light performance.
They are defending their income in a dishonest way that most people can see right through.
Instead, they should be stocking diamonds they are not ashamed of if they expect to pass muster here on PS.

If you think I'm stirring a pot with this thread, this is a pot that needs stirring!
That these two vendors are sponsors here reflects poorly on PS.

But as they say, follow the money.

screen_shot_2016-05-21_at_9.png
 

Tourmaline

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Niel|1463831457|4034367 said:
Tourmaline|1463831277|4034365 said:
Leon has used almost pornographic images with utterly inappropriate commentary in marketing his jewelry on Facebook (I thought he was hacked, but the same image was on his website), he has held diamonds hostage and has been downright abusive to customers. This latest thing (his toddler tantrum about the HCA) is no surprise. The real surprise is that PS still endorses him.
Ha!

That picture of boobs with a photoshopped necklace on it? I couldn't even believe he thought that was an appropriate thing to share. Ignoring the fact it's vulgar, it was SO CLEARLY a bad Photoshop !

Yes, and did you read the text he posted with it on FB?! Part was in another language, and I translated it on Google and it was something wildly strange and inappropriate about the sexiness of the color of baby lamb tongue, or something.
 

tyty333

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I'm okay with someone logically stating there opinion about the HCA, however, obnoxious temper tantrums I can do without.
One more reason I could not/would not spend my money with Mege.
 

diamondseeker2006

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mrs-blop|1463846145|4034445 said:
Hey LEON!

I'm from the land of Skippy the Bush Kangaroo.

But I tell you what, Leon. I buy a lot of jewelry. And I'm the sort of customer any jeweler wants. And I use American dollars.

And you're never getting a single one of them.

Good luck to you.

:lol:
 

flyingpig

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susief|1463851678|4034478 said:
He loves Pricescope too:

https://leonmege.com/revelations/item/194-leon-mege-consumer-feedback

(scroll down about halfway)

Methinks he doth protest too much about not ever having aliases on Pricescope...

He loves to have customers from PS. He loves the exposure.
At the same time, he hates HCA because it eliminates alot of stones he has.

I suspect some vendors feel the same way. You have a great looking stone, but it scores 2 or higher in HCA. The customer leaves and there goes $10k transaction evaporating.

But there is a more elegant and professional way to address HCA's limitations.
 

Tekate

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Mrs. Blop, my comment is sort of not on topic but I LOVE your rings, I love your pictures and the style of your rings etc. Every ring you have ever posted, I wanted :) so keep posting, as to Mr. Mege and the HCA, I have never read in 3 years on this site any - whom I consider knowledgeable - person recommending the tool as a buy tool, just a way of eliminating some stones that may be not the best.. As to the boob stuff, he's appealing to a clientele that spends big big bucks on buxom women.. ;-)

peace



mrs-blop|1463846145|4034445 said:
Hey LEON!

I'm from the land of Skippy the Bush Kangaroo.

But I tell you what, Leon. I buy a lot of jewelry. And I'm the sort of customer any jeweler wants. And I use American dollars.

And you're never getting a single one of them.

Good luck to you.
 

kenny

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diamondseeker2006|1463851554|4034476 said:
To Kenny...I've just been sitting here waiting for that post to arrive. ;))

I'm not religious, yet somehow I have this powerful moral compass.
I recognize right from wrong.
When I see powerful people do wrong I am much more interesting in exposing it and fighting for what's right than self-interest, or my mommy's version of "Be nice" ... "Fit in." ... "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" ... "Don't rock the boat." ... "Make sure everyone likes you" ... "Be a good team player." :roll:

To me ethics come first, even if I DO get banned again.

I'm as passionate about good diamond cut as some vendors are about making money at the expense of ethics.
 
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