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Leon Mege: IS images are BS?

mkruse02

Rough_Rock
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Dec 22, 2014
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I called Leon Mege and when I asked if they do IS or ASET imaging they said these images are worthless much like an xray of a painting. According to them the images are just a way for some vendors to differentiate themselves from the competition. He said that he would be able provide the images but he just didn't see the value in it. Is this a popular opinion, and is there much merit to it? I just thought it interesting and has given me more to think about....
 

Circe

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I'd say it's a matter of perspective. For a jeweler with 20+years of experience (ballpark - never worked with Mege, just going off the sense I've gotten from seeing him mentioned here), it probably won't tell them much more than their own eyes will concerning the beauty, performance, salability, etc. However, for somebody who's coming to the wonderful world of diamonds for the first time? I'd say they serve a purpose. They shouldn't be considered the end-all, be-all - tastes vary, after all - by they definitely provide valuable, predictable information about how a diamond will perform. What shape are you looking for?
 

VRBeauty

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I suspect that some people who are very familiar with diamonds, or possibly who just have an "eye" for them, can assess a diamond's relative light return without analytic tools like an ASET image. I imagine Leon Mege is among them. For those of us not in this group, these tools help us assess and pick out the best-performing stones. Essentially what Leon is saying is "trust me." That, and bad-mouthing his competition. :wink2:
 

canuk-gal

Super_Ideal_Rock
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23,846
HI:

Decades of research and tools have gotten diamond cutters/vendors to where they are now. One can offer what they believe is perfection/advantage over another. It is a competitive business. Make a choice.

However, maligning or commenting on the competitions product based on the same research that has brought them to the fore, is rather like stooping with your hands open.

cheers--Sharon
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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ASET and other images demonstrating light performance are great ways to show consumers how diamonds perform, and why one stone is more preferable over another. It is true some vendors don't need them and can pick stones that are beautiful performers. On the flip side of that it also means they can sell customers average stones and get away with it.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Um, yeah. If your stones are outstanding, you don't mind proving it with an idealscope or ASET image. :naughty:

There are other master ringmakers such as Victor Canera who graciously provide outstanding pictures of the diamonds they sell including idealscope and ASET images. I prefer vendors who provide them.
 

teobdl

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May 8, 2013
Messages
986
I agree with others who say it's a matter of perspective.

For an experienced person who regularly selects great diamonds, an IS image is of little utility.

For the consumer who knows little about diamonds or can't physically see the diamond before purchase, an IS image counts as proof that the diamond is as advertised.
 

Diamond_Hawk

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Alright - I had a nice post composed about expert jewelers with opinion variances and conflicting recommendations all tied into a great analogy about cooking as an art, and baking as a science…(I even a included a great recipe for pie crust)

And then after reviewing what Teobdl said, I realize he basically took my entire diatribe and said the same thing in two sentences - brevity is the soul of wit and all that.... (nicely done)

So I will just add this: Even a "Jewelry Jedi" can have an experienced opinion, and can make recommendations based upon that opinion. But if it can also be backed-up, scientifically, why not do that too?
 

Gypsy

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Diamond_Hawk|1422160940|3821694 said:
Alright - I had a nice post composed about expert jewelers with opinion variances and conflicting recommendations all tied into a great analogy about cooking as an art, and baking as a science…(I even a included a great recipe for pie crust)

And then after reviewing what Teobdl said, I realize he basically took my entire diatribe and said the same thing in two sentences - brevity is the soul of wit and all that.... (nicely done)

So I will just add this: Even a "Jewelry Jedi" can have an experienced opinion, and can make recommendations based upon that opinion. But if it can also be backed-up, scientifically, why not do that too?

This.

If you have great stones and can give your customers proof, why wouldn't you do so?

Seems to me that if you have great stones then you have nothing to hide. Frankly, I am suspicious of jewelers who refuse to use technology that can be utilized so easily to back up their claims.
 

Rockdiamond

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Brian- why is a photo or video less scientific than a reflector photo?
By all means, as a consumer, get whatever you want in terms of imagery- but calling one type of image more "scientific' is misleading.
Without a doubt BOTH are sales tools.
 

teobdl

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I am hesitant to pass judgment on vendors who don't use IS images. I understand that they are rather difficult to standardize and take well. Also, there are many diamonds that don't perfectly pass the "IS test", but which are nevertheless great, great diamonds from a performance standpoint (due to stereo vision). While it's an area of active research due to its complexity, this phenomenon is true and has been discussed ad nauseam.

Let's be real: the number of vendors who provide IS images is very small in comparison to the number of vendors who do. There is no reason to be "weary" of those who don't (bluenile, Tiffany, jewels by grace, Diamonds by Lauren, etc) . As a consumer your job is to know what you're looking for and to be able to judge what you're buying. Does having an IS image making things easier? Sometimes. But often times, it's also quite redundant if you know the proportions and have a well-taken picture and video. Does having an IS make consumers feel safer in their purchase? Absolutely.

From a vendor standpoint, I can see the hesitation: not just in terms of logistics, but also in terms of not wanting to feed into the "scientific," quantifiable performance ethos that can sometimes cause more harm than good to the consumer.

My own feeling is that, at least for small vendors, it makes sense to at least offer to provide an IS image for modern round brilliant (unless you are opposed to it on principle). If the diamond doesn't have an impeccable IS image, then do your best to educate why it's still an amazing diamond. For all other diamonds, there are so many other factors that, frankly, I'd rather put my efforts into finding a vendor with a great track record of selling beautiful diamonds to happy customers rather than seeking out the few who give reflector images, which neither I nor 99% of PSers can't interpret well.
 

Diamond_Hawk

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Rockdiamond|1422191870|3821764 said:
Brian- why is a photo or video less scientific than a reflector photo?
By all means, as a consumer, get whatever you want in terms of imagery- but calling one type of image more "scientific' is misleading.
Without a doubt BOTH are sales tools.

The differences are:
(1) standardized, structured environment
(2) information provided.

Real photos can differ dramatically depending on how close or far the lens is from the diamond. Factors such as the color of the photographer's shirt or uneven lighting coming from the sides or back, the white-balance, or other colors or light sources in the room, etc. come into play.

The purpose of a reflector image is to omit anything but the structured, evenly colored cone in order to see where in the hemisphere the diamond is drawing and returning light.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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teobdl|1422199182|3821785 said:
I am hesitant to pass judgment on vendors who don't use IS images. I understand that they are rather difficult to standardize and take well. Also, there are many diamonds that don't perfectly pass the "IS test", but which are nevertheless great, great diamonds from a performance standpoint (due to stereo vision). While it's an area of active research due to its complexity, this phenomenon is true and has been discussed ad nauseam.

Let's be real: the number of vendors who provide IS images is very small in comparison to the number of vendors who do. There is no reason to be "weary" of those who don't (bluenile, Tiffany, jewels by grace, Diamonds by Lauren, etc) . As a consumer your job is to know what you're looking for and to be able to judge what you're buying. Does having an IS image making things easier? Sometimes. But often times, it's also quite redundant if you know the proportions and have a well-taken picture and video. Does having an IS make consumers feel safer in their purchase? Absolutely.

From a vendor standpoint, I can see the hesitation: not just in terms of logistics, but also in terms of not wanting to feed into the "scientific," quantifiable performance ethos that can sometimes cause more harm than good to the consumer.

My own feeling is that, at least for small vendors, it makes sense to at least offer to provide an IS image for modern round brilliant (unless you are opposed to it on principle). If the diamond doesn't have an impeccable IS image, then do your best to educate why it's still an amazing diamond. For all other diamonds, there are so many other factors that, frankly, I'd rather put my efforts into finding a vendor with a great track record of selling beautiful diamonds to happy customers rather than seeking out the few who give reflector images, which neither I nor 99% of PSers can't interpret well.

Great post teobdl!

The part I underlined really highlights some of my concerns.
Especially when reflector images are touted as "scientific proof" of something.
I would not agree with a statement calling IdealScope BS- because that's not true, and it's pejorative.
But the comparison with an x-ray is actually apt.
An X-ray does provide data, but unless one is trained on how to interpret it, the data can be entirely misleading.
Furthermore, a photo is far easier to glean info from.

If the discussion is solely about round diamonds, the reflector images are far easier to read as compared to Fancy Shapes.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Diamond_Hawk|1422204245|3821824 said:
Rockdiamond|1422191870|3821764 said:
Brian- why is a photo or video less scientific than a reflector photo?
By all means, as a consumer, get whatever you want in terms of imagery- but calling one type of image more "scientific' is misleading.
Without a doubt BOTH are sales tools.

The differences are:
(1) standardized, structured environment
(2) information provided.

Real photos can differ dramatically depending on how close or far the lens is from the diamond. Factors such as the color of the photographer's shirt or uneven lighting coming from the sides or back, the white-balance, or other colors or light sources in the room, etc. come into play.

The purpose of a reflector image is to omit anything but the structured, evenly colored cone in order to see where in the hemisphere the diamond is drawing and returning light.

Hi Brian,
Have you ever seen the Vibox?
OMG... it's so incredibly precise. "Standardized" "Structured" perfectly describe both the procedure, as well as the results.
This is also true of the lesser systems that have the diamond spinning in it's pavilion to the camera.
The lighting and movement are controlled. It makes no difference if you're nude, or wearing a clown costume when you take the picture ( I know, I tried both:)

Plus, gauging the results is intuitive for anyone who's looked at pictures of anything.

Reflector image capture is anything but structured- methods and results are all over the place.
There's nothing at all intuitive in interpreting them as well.

Evoking the name of science is a sales pitch.
Nothing wrong with sales pitch- or showing advantages to your product however you can.

We've all seen one product advertised as "scientifically better" and easily have recognized the sales pitch.
Bounty picks up 25% more water.
I saw it on TV, scientifically proved.
 

Diamoneecee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
75
I think every choice should be weight by the individual as too the value and what that is worth. I have two daughters in college right now. One goes to Cornell University and the other goes to our local community college here in California. The difference in price is about 60,000 a year to about 60 a credit. The eldest wants to be a Dr, studied hard was a straight A student and held several research positions. To her the price tag it with it. The other wants to write graphics novels, is an art major and sees no value in such a price tag or the need to go beyond a bachelors education. They are the best ones to make that decision, which makes each happy! Any Ivy League education or vslue of a community college is there decision to rewards and worth!
 

Diamoneecee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
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I post what I did above to say there is science and researcher to support the value of a college educations worth. Whether an Ivy League education or community college education gives more bang for the buck. In the end of the day the consumer must decide.
 
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