Kimberley Process analysis...

[Regular Guy]

This thread is motivated by the recent JCK thread. Likely, this thread will be followed, if I read the reports in that thread correctly, by some more reporting on JCK discussion (at least) on this topic. But, in brief discussion about the session at JCK on the Kimberley Process and Consumer confidence, Garry shared a thought I've seen him share briefly before, but maybe he expanded on his thinking, if only slightly, saying:


"KP did a good job within the limitations that it had, but it was never designed to police rogue states nor was it designed as a humanitarian directive.
It would be better if Zimbabwae could stay within KP - but the issues are very complex and people like Dorothee are part of the solution."


Questions/comments:

I'd like to understand anything that makes sense about this. In very recent discussion on Linked-In for Fair Trade Diamonds, an off hand comment was that KP is a mistake, and too much tumult for the small problem conflict diamonds are.

I can believe I am too naive about this, but it is easy for me to understand things in a reasonably black and white manner with respect to this. In this way, the approach Rappaport has seemed to have taken seems not only straightforward but also constructive; he reported on Kimberley's challenges, withdrew his own support, and withdrew the availability of a block of diamonds on his own lists that were objectionable.

Seems to me...Kimberley shouldn't accept consensus decisionmaking...at least if that's defined as every single agent must agree in a decision.

Otherwise, and also, it seems you shouldn't particularly strive to have it both ways (though I think you differ here, Garry).

Either...you have a set of rules, and kick out those who do not conform to them (Zimbabwe), so that to have a Kimberley certificate has value.

or

If you keep in guys and make too elastic to be believable practices so that anyone like Zimbabwe is in the Kimberly Process, then you pull down the value of having a Kimberley certificate

and the whole point of Kimberley goes out the window.

In this latter case...IF a consumer has a concern about blood diamonds, you want them to be satisfied that, knowing it comes with a Kimberley Certificate, they are happy (enough), and indeed are satisfied.

Why this hasn't shaken more...shall I say it...even more on Pricescope...is a mystery, and Pricescope itself may be the prooftext for the writer above's argument that Kimberley is a waste of resources.

But...if not today...someone who can communicate to a listening public (and maybe guys like Brilliant Earth are already making such inroads) will get the message across...slowly or quickly.

It's hard to see your point of view, Garry. Maybe you can splain.

And, if and as others have a useful viewpoint on this, they are welcome.

 

[Karl_K]

My opinion is that some are trying to find shades of red in blood diamonds.
These are just a little bloody so they are ok.
In a recent discussion on FB this is what I said:

To me the question is really simple, can it be said with a large degree of certainty that someone was not murdered over every piece of rough that is being sold in that lot?
If the answer is no, then it should not be allowed on the market.
Other than punish the guilty we can not do anything about the past but we can shape the future.
Kimberley Process has done a lot to settle consumers concerns over "blood diamonds" but it is now at a crossroads, will money be put over life?
Historically the answer in the diamond trade(and many others) has been yes money before life.
There is a chance to change that now but it will take good people standing firm to achieve it.
More than ever before our customers are watching.....
Will we live up to our marketing?
We can not change the past but we can change the future and leave the next generation a cleaner, healthier and more respected industry.

 

[WinkHPD]

I missed the session in which Kimberly was discussed at great length, too bad, the session I went to during that time frame was not at all satisfying, sigh.

However, I did get some of the information second hand. Please understand that I might have some of the details slightly off, but I think this is fairly accurate.

The Kimberly process was defined as a proceedure to stop rebels from using diamonds to finance wars against the governments of the countries that they were fighting in. Of the seven countries that were experiencing wars, six of them stopped within a year. (Again, I state that his is what I got second hand, I was not actually at the session.)

It has been suggested that a Kimberly type process be used to stop similar upheavals in countries dealing in certain rare metals used for all of the computers and cell phones we are using, they are almost certain to contain these elements and no one is making a fuss about this because it would be too inconvenient. (I want to say coltran, but I could easily be remembering incorrectly and I am tired and not going to go look for it right now. I am going to go to bed instead.)

Oh, and lets not forget blood cocoa. Shame on you chocolate eaters.

Oh, and conflict oil, oops, can''t talk about that, we all drive.

Okay, so I am biased, I think the diamond industry has done a pretty good job of cleaning up PART of the problem.

What the Kimberly process has not done, is address human rights issues. If a government wants to brutalize its own population, even if they are not rebels, there is nothing in the Kimberly process that allows punishment of that government. Turns out this is a huge loop hole that needs to be addressed.

So yes, we have come a long way, and we have a long way to go. Martin Rapaport was able to grand stand a little and say that the Kimberly process is flawed, and it is, but lets not forget that he is also right in the middle of trying to force people to use his fair trade diamond initiative which will cause prices to be higher to you the consumer.

The facts are, that prices are going up in the near future, and probably by more than anyone is expecting, with or without fair trade.

Martin did say one thing that I solidly agree with in his presentation. "The artesanal miner is just as much a part of the diamond industry as the retail jeweler."

They deserve to be treated better, and now that we have stopped the use of diamonds in financing revolutions, we need also to stop the abuse of power by governments against their own people as well. If not, diamonds could easily become the next fur, something else that Martin warned about.

I really wish I had been at that session, then I would have the notes that I take, but these are the the things that I remember hearing from people that were there, mixed of course with my own opinions. If you want to skewer my industry, please remember to skewer the other industries that have as yet made no where near the efforts that mine has to clean things up.

Wink

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Sorry Ira, I am time poor.
I attendend most of the relevant meetings as well as a long chat with John Hall from Rio Tinto, and Michael Rae from Responsable Jewellery Council (ex WWF).

It is a very complex mess.
there are 3 mining areas in Zim - Rio has operated one in pristine ethical conditions with 1,000 staff, 10,000 directly dependant and about 100,000 surrounding economy somewhat dependant. Want to starve them?

When India stopped importation there was a real incentive to smuggle Zim goods into Surat because the families there would starve.

In the short - many of the KP countries will not extend the rules to humanitarian basis because many of the countries have dirty back yards. Its the UN - remember. China looses how many workers in uncompressed diamond (carbon = coal) mines. Blah balh blah.
Dorethee is aware of many more complexities and she is mature and sharp. Wish I had time to relay more - but the popular and NGO views are not always the common sense views.

I hope you know I care. I am not making excuses - its complex Ira.
Take the fair trade gold issues - they will doubtlessly end up smuggling gold into the mines because they get paid 15% more for it. It''s really complex.

 

[yssie]

I, as a consumer who recently purchased in the US and plans to purchase again soon overseas (India), will be watching this thread with interest. I do hope to see a good informative discussion here.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 6/8/2010 5:19:47 PM
Author:Regular Guy

But...if not today...someone who can communicate to a listening public (and maybe guys like Brilliant Earth are already making such inroads) will get the message across...slowly or quickly.

I will say, today''s article I read is a little ironic, and sad.

See it here.

The suggestion is that people are losing faith in the Kimberley Process. Unfortunately, I fear the reality is that people don''t very much care.

Although Brilliant Earth, noted above, has every reason to be interested in this being true, with respect to its wares...couldn''t they find anything like a disinterested party, or a consumer group, to publish the results? Or sponsor the review?

There is reason for JQPublic to be concerned about the Kimberley Process, but I fear that the publication of this concern by Brilliant Earth more tends to demonstrate, counter intuitively, that this is in fact not so much the case.

 

[Lula]

Date: 6/17/2010 12:52:02 PM
Author: Regular Guy

Date: 6/8/2010 5:19:47 PM

Author:Regular Guy


But...if not today...someone who can communicate to a listening public (and maybe guys like Brilliant Earth are already making such inroads) will get the message across...slowly or quickly.

I will say, today's article I read is a little ironic, and sad.


See it here.


The suggestion is that people are losing faith in the Kimberley Process. Unfortunately, I fear the reality is that people don't very much care.


Although Brilliant Earth, noted above, has every reason to be interested in this being true, with respect to its wares...couldn't they find anything like a disinterested party, or a consumer group, to publish the results? Or sponsor the review?


There is reason for JQPublic to be concerned about the Kimberley Process, but I fear that the publication of this concern by Brilliant Earth more tends to demonstrate, counter intuitively, that this is in fact not so much the case.

The part of our post I bolded, I think, gets to the heart of it. People, for the most part, don't care. I resent that Brilliant Earth is using FB to generate buzz for their company under the guise that there is some sort of large scale protest on the part of the general public. I don't see it here and this is the largest online diamond forum in the world, and I haven't heard about it on the retail jewelry level. In fact, most jewelers I know are far more worried about how the slow economic recovery is going to affect their businesses for the next several years.

 

[Regular Guy]

Hi!

I continue to get google alerts on the Kimberley process, and saw for the first time in quite a while new....disgust....with what's going on..or not... with the Kimberley Process. It moved me to post here.

Fortunately, I do see Martin Rapaport is continuing to ring the bell on the important topic of diamonds, and their ethical dimension,but I had not drilled in to see what he presented at the most recent Las Vegas Conference. I wonder if the topic is just so ho hum that our friends who did attend can update us?

It is interesting, though, that most blather on this in the last year and more is just so much the same non content, if only, as the new article reminds us, bolstering if anything Zimbabwe, such that the exception of the article linked below more seems to prove the rule that...to the extent diamond sourcing coninues to be a problem, with respect to best practices...it is not on the minds of very many people. Unfortunately, I suspect the idea that no news is good news simply does not apply. Please see below for the last, oddly from the Indian press, which more routinely seems to support more "staying the course" approaches to this issue:

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/so-blood-diamonds-are-forever/article4898632.ece

All best,

Ira Z.

P.S. I know there is a somewhat more recent and longer thread I could have grabbed on this topic instead, but using the Pricescope box tools, at top right, entering: Kimberley...this is the thread that came up. So, who am I to argue with Google?!

 

[delight]

http://www.globalwitness.org/library/global-witness-leaves-kimberley-process-calls-diamond-trade-be-held-accountable

 

[Karl_K]

http://www.globalwitness.org/library/global-witness-leaves-kimberley-process-calls-diamond-trade-be-held-accountable

That happened around 5th December 2011. Old news.....

 

[diagem]

But...if not today...someone who can communicate to a listening public (and maybe guys like Brilliant Earth are already making such inroads) will get the message across...slowly or quickly.

RG, you keep pointing to BE as an example..., may I ask you, what have you noticed in their offerings that relaxes your mind to keep mentioning them and their business practices?

 

[Regular Guy]

But...if not today...someone who can communicate to a listening public (and maybe guys like Brilliant Earth are already making such inroads) will get the message across...slowly or quickly.

RG, you keep pointing to BE as an example..., may I ask you, what have you noticed in their offerings that relaxes your mind to keep mentioning them and their business practices?

Hi, Yoram,

Well...it may have been a mistake to start with an old thread after all. This thread is 3 years old, so when you say I keep mentioning Brilliant Earth...it's been 3 years since I mentioned them...at least in this thread. But...since YOU bring them up, I'll mention briefly and casually about my experience with them, as I did go shopping for studs for my wife, eventually making a purchase from BG and possible their very last off the shelf studs to go they've done...though I haven't checked recently.

a) Brilliant Earth does show and allow in your constraining of choices...Country of Origin....see here:

http://www.brilliantearth.com/loose-diamonds/search/

including both Nambia and Botswana. That would seem to be good.

b) In my communications with a sales associate, there was a tin ear quality. I described HCA, for example, and its associated criteria, but a second recommendation to me didn't attend to my criticism of what she showed me and I commented on in the first. Also, though they use the words of Super Ideal and Ideal to differentiate cuts, it's not clear what they base this on, they don't probabl still use anything like reflector images.

c) Prices are probably meh to highish, but this can be tolerable, especially if you feel you're getting what you want. I did shop elsewhere, also feeling like I wasn't in tune with my requests for cut.

d) They continue to be around, and seemingly relatively big. Their advertising is omnipresent. I like this about them. They're there.

e) It took awhile to find/remember another option. Googling: boutique ethical diamond didn't find them, nor did adding in California. Even when I remembered the word Clarity...I couldn't find them. Finally, I remembered it was called: ClarityProject, and I see they still have a website at least:

http://www.clarityproject.com/ourcommitment.html

They talk the talk, and other guys may do this, too. But, if they're still around, they're probably pricey (they didn't return a second call from to understand what a diamond would cost), and again, Google can't seem to find them very easily, which may or may not say anything.

I'd like to see Rap or some presence be successful in helping to bring additional life into the movement for ethical sourcing. Yes, Brilliant Earth is encouraging inasmuch as that's what their message is, and they continue to be around...and I'm glad for that.

All best,

Ira Z.

 

[diagem]

Sorry Ira, just noticed it's that old..., but still, I keep hearing the same tune.

Botswana = Mostly DTC aggregations et-al
Namibia = there actually is a big stakeholder who is getting heat from the NGO's
Canada = well perhaps the closest to conflict free (if it's only Canadian).
Russia = aggregations from numerous African locations and then some...

Claiming ethical/fair trade/ conflict free Diamonds with these country of origins is an old joke. It's a pity, it has exactly the same weight as their Ideal Cut offerings.

Shows a lot about a Company, not to everyone unfortunately.

But again, it's an old thread and probably not worth continuing.