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Keep or Return

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RJB

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Oct 20, 2005
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Any advice that could help would be great.

I bought an engagement ring off a website. I bought it at a wholesale price believing it to be a good price. After taking it to an independent appraiser he graded the color at a K-L and not a J as I was told. The appraiser is grading on a GIA standard while the wholesaler is using a EGL or UGL standard. Now, I have a few days left to make a return for full value and I need to decide what to do. I asked the retailer to lower the price but he is not budging. If the stone is graded L then I overpaid. If the stone is graded K then I am in the ballpark (within $500.) If it is a J then I got a deal. The appraiser can take the stone out of the setting to make a better determination but then I run the risk of something possibly happening to the setting.

Should I have the appraiser take out the stone and then reset it, return the ring, or keep it? Right now I am thinking that I will keep it.

Side note: My girlfriend helped me pick out the setting and loves it and she likes the carat weight of the stone. I believe that is her most important "C".
 

Kaleigh

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Nov 18, 2004
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29,570
I would get a refund. EGL or UGL can be soft on their grading. You purchased what you thought was a J. Now it turns out it's a K-L. Big difference in my book. You say your gilrfriend loves the setting. I'm sure you can find a similar one elsewhere and deal with a retailor that doesn't misrepresent his stones. The fact that you asked him to negotiate after the color discrepancy came up and he's not budging, would make me want to take my money elsewhere. Seriously. Give us your budget and we can help you find a beautiful stone.
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Also wanted to add stones are best appraised loose.
 

ame

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Return it. Start looking at some of the PS vendors instead.
 

RJB

Rough_Rock
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Well, I can''t go beyond the price I paid:
I paid $6895 for a 2.05 carat cushion cut diamond center stone.
The cushion cut has a 1.07 length to width ratio. Any higher is too rectangular for my girlfriend''s taste.
Two side diamonds are princess cut with a .42 tcw.
Six bead set diamonds with a .10 tcw.
The ring is made out of .900 platinum with the mounting(prongs) 18K white gold.
As I posted earlier if it is graded a GIA K then the appraiser felt I was in the ballpark.
 

radiantlover

Shiny_Rock
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Have you seen the diamond? If you and your GF really love the ring then you should keep it...but I should mention that fancy cut diamonds tend to show more color than a RB. Will your GF be fine with the warm color of a K-L?
 

decodelighted

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Well... first off, I'd like to find out which website this is selling 2ct cushion cut platinum/diamond rings for less than 7K .. PIX??? Please!!!

If you really are locked into the parameters you stated and your budget is 7K ... and you love the ring & she loves the ring ... why not? Just 'cause others have "cut" or "color" as their priorities doesn't mean you & your future fiance have to ...
 

RJB

Rough_Rock
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Oct 20, 2005
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Sorry, all my pics are too large to upload. If there is a way I will, I have a mac.
 

lumpkin

Ideal_Rock
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Is there a way to save it as a web ready picture? Or a way to save it by number of pixels?

I''d love to see it!
 

MissAva

Ideal_Rock
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If you want PM me and I will give you my email address and I can post them for you. Do you have a link to the web page?
 

radiantlover

Shiny_Rock
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I love the setting!!! What is the clarity of the center stone? I''m not sure if it''s the picture or the stone needs a good cleaning but it doesn''t look eye clean to me???
 

RJB

Rough_Rock
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The clarity is SI-1.
I had to crop the picture and then diminish the amount of bits so it is coming out more grainy. I don''t know what "eye clean" means but in real life it looks real nice.
 

RJB

Rough_Rock
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Now that there is a picture. Going back to my original post, should I return it or keep it. Just checking on the website for loose stones and did not find any loose stones of that carat weight in a J or K (there were no L''s listed) for the same price or less of the ring. So do you all think it was a good deal and I should keep it?
 

radiantlover

Shiny_Rock
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The term ''eye-clean'' usually means that you can''t see the inclusion face up at arms length...different vendors have different definitions.

If you and your GF love the diamond and ring, then keep it. You''re getting an amazing deal...just make sure your GF will love it too.
 

Tacori E-ring

Super_Ideal_Rock
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If you both love it, keep it. There is no way you could replace your cushion with a better diamond and stay in your budget. (that I can believe)
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Oct 30, 2002
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31,003
Is it just me or is there like a big bowtie or something in the middle? It looks like a big unfaceted area in that picture.

Return it. A K/L is not a J.

Life is too short and money is too scarce (for most of us!) to be throwing it away on some random piece of crap from an online website with an EGL cert and an iffy cut quality. Next time do a bit of research BEFORE the purchase....
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Good luck..I hope you end up with a beautiful stone that is what you bought!!
 

door knob solitaire

Ideal_Rock
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Jun 26, 2005
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Hello Mara,

I have noticed in the past other use of the term bow tie. I know you and the board know what that means...but I haven''t a clue and I bet RJB doesn''t either.

Could you or the next poster explain so that he can look into the stone and confirm your insight. I think many of us are trying to learn at a snails pace...and you guys are running laps around us.

It is obvious that RJB needs help...it may be his first daimond purchase...at which time a diamond is a diamond and the bigger the better and better yet the cheaper the bigger is better.
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Whew..I am dizzy.

Thanks from us newbies.

DKS
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
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A quick search on Google would show lots of information on bow ties in diamonds, and probably even images. Its something you find in some fancies, aka marquis and I think pears...

A bow tie wouldn't be in a cushion that I know of but that is what that picture looks like to me. Or maybe it's just an illusion. It almost looks like two bow ties in a cross or something which is weird.

The best way to learn around here is hang around and absorb. If you see a term you are unsure of, try searching for it or reading old posts etc. I was on here for 3-4 months before buying reading and asking Q's and I still didn't know what I was doing.
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Kaleigh

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Mara is correct, you can see bow ties in fancies such as pears, ovals, and marquise. They look exactly like a man''s bow tie, hence the name. Most people try to avoid stones that have them. When I did my 3 stone pink sapphire ring it took me a long time to find oval side stones that didn''t have bow ties. Some people are ok with them, but they distract from the stone''s beauty IMHO. HTH.
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lumpkin

Ideal_Rock
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May 24, 2005
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I don''t think it''s a bad bargain. It''s platinum with diamond settings, and that alone would cost anywhere between $1200 and $1800, depending on the vendor. Then, if you bought the setting and the diamond, there is often a charge to set the diamond and a charge for the head. That could be anywhere between $250 and $400 because of the size of the diamond. You''re already up to about $1500 to $2200 just for the setting and setting the center diamond. Then there''s the diamond itself. Probably a minimum of $5500 even for the color it is, and that''s if you get a good deal. Now you are up to $7000 - $7700. If you love it, keep it.

I don''t think it''s "crap." I have an M colored diamond. I would be offended if someone here referred to it as "crap." My hope was that the reference was to whether or not the stone was misrepresented, which it may or may not have been, without taking the stone out of the setting (and then you would have to pay for that as well). If the stone is a K/L, it''s still not a bad deal. It''s not a steal, but it''s not bad. There is a site you should check out: www.faycullen.com. There are many K/L/M diamonds on that site and they are in the same price range.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Just out of curiousity, how does ''random piece of crap from an online website'' translate to ''lumpkin''s M stone is a piece of crap''? That''s a huge leap.
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Obviously I was not talking about the color, wasn''t I just saying in another thread that I would love a good K stone? Must have been another Mara, the one who likes lower colored stones, yanno the one who owns a J?
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Rather I was thinking more about the potential cut quality (or lack thereof) and the fact that the color was hugely misreprented. The picture looks odd too.
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Nov 19, 2004
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10,285
no one is saying lower colored diamonds are crap. as a matter of fact, there was talk in this thread (which i believe mara was referring to in her above post) about ps'ers WANTING to see more of the lower color/clarity stones. it is NOT the color or clarity that impact a stones performance. it is the cut. a well cut stone will sparkle and reflect light back to your eyes. a poorly cut stone just looks like any other rock...quite lifeless and dead.
 

Jelly

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 19, 2005
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2,518
Everyone wants different things in a ring. Size is important to practically all of us. If your girlfriend loves the ring, then go for it and get the most bang for your buck. We''d all love to have a D colored stone and FL clarity, but it''s not in our budget.

If this ring is not what you expected, keep looking. If she loves it, then accept it with all it''s flaws and appreciate it''s beauty and size!!

Good luck!
 

valeria101

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I find it hard to believe that you got a deal... the seller should know the grade better than the appraiser (because he had the stone loose) and neither of the too may be too keen to make you feel bad about the purchase. Both should know better than any novice that leaving it grade in limbo at 'K"-sih would make the price just hard to beat and the stone sound closer to reality.

Just my 0.2. If you have not had an opportunity to see more diamonds with higher grades and nice cut, back it goes. If the price makes this a keeper despite all else, sounds debatable at best.

Of course, I have not seen the diamond - you have. The picture cannot show color or brilliance, just the shape (somewhat). On the EGL report there should be some numbers for table, depth, crown height, pavilion depth and a note for girdle thickness. Could you liste them? It sort of shows like a not so hot cut with a large table and shallow pavilion (i.e. not much brilliance, relatively). Hopefully, I am wrong. With only that picture to go by, this is the worst case that comes to mind.

Just IMO... shortly after the purchase, you will be left with the diamond and what it is.



Btw. is the 'SI1' estimate by the seller's estimate or the appraiser's ? Not that the name of any grade would make this diamond look any different - only the 'good buy' (let alone 'bargain') gets further into question
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From I-J/Si1 to K/L-Si2 or I1...
 

Maya Moonstone

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
212
Hi

I have no opinion about if you should keep the ring or not. What I do know about cushions is that the personality of the stone is most important. If you like how it looks, and all the other specs are in your comfort range, or rather your soon to be fiance is ok with a K color, and size is the most important C to her...keep it. If howener you will suffer from buyer''s remorse down the line, return it and look further.

BTW, "crossed bowties" in a cushion is sometimes seen. It is called a malthese cross. One of the most famous cushions, the Red Cross diamond, displays a malthese cross.

This very cushion displays it as well cushion with cross And nobody will dispute that this cushion is an excellent specimen :)

Good luck!

Maya
 

RJB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
27
I don''t have all the numbers in front of me. I can tell you the dimensions of the center stone though. Those are 7.80 x 7.20 x 5.20 mm.
 

RJB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
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And both the seller and the appraiser agreed that it was an SI-1 clarity.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Maya I am so glad you chimed in with the info on the cross, I thought that is what it looked like but I wasn''t sure. I thought...two crossed bowties in a cushion? WHAT?

So I wonder if a maltese cross in a cushion is like H&A in rounds?? Something super desirable!
 
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