Is Tiffany (or any "premium" jeweler) worth the price?

[domer]

Like most newcomers to this site, I am currently in the market for a diamond engagement ring. I’ve done a good deal of homework on buying diamonds, which included reading several online tutorials, studying the Cuellar buying guide (which seems to be poorly received by most in these forums), running countless searches on various diamond sites, and combing the posts of multiple recommended online discussion sites. That said, I have to admit that I’m still plagued by a nagging voice in my head that is telling me, “Just go to Tiffany’s.”

Now I’ve heard everything from “you can’t go wrong with the quality you get from a Tiffany diamond” to “Tiffany’s is ridiculous overpriced” and, as one poster put it, “SO middle-America.” While I do understand that there is a higher price tag associated with their product, I’ve yet to be convinced that buying online, or even from a local dealer for that matter, can offer the same sense of security and satisfaction as buying from a jeweler who has been in the business for as long as Tiffany’s, and who has their reputation for quality and service. If there’s one thing all of my research has done for me, it’s been to instill a sense of fear and apprehension towards purchasing diamonds. (I have to admit, Cuellar was a primary contributor to that.) I’m reluctant to even register for membership to forums such as this one for fear of being bombarded by “fellow posters” who have “just the diamond for me.” How am I to know that someone replying to this message isn’t just trying to push their own wares and lure me in to their operation? Basically, I’m not confident in finding a relationship of trust through online dealers, or even through local jewelers based on the recommendations of “strangers”. So where do I go from here? My instincts say to go with what you know to be safe and sure, knowing that you’re paying for that security and piece of mind in your transaction. Are there better diamonds out there than Tiffany diamonds? Undoubtedly. Am I going to pay a premium for Tiffany’s product? Absolutely. However, is this the purchase that I should be gambling with or entering into without a guarantee of trust and security? No question. With a purchase such as this one, I need to first of all feel comfortable with the reputation and the guarantee of the person on the other end of the bargaining table. Only then can I begin to concern myself with “value”.

That said, I wouldn’t be posting this if were a done deal in my mind, or if I was not interested in what the members of this forum had to say on it. I welcome any advice you all may have on my situation, and I appreciate the effort of anyone who has stayed with me thus far…

-Domer

PS – I am posting this message on both pricescope.com and diamondtalk.com in hopes of eliciting as many insightful replies as possible. I apologize to anyone who may have encountered the message on both boards…

 

[in_need_of_help]

If there’s one thing all of my research has done for me, it’s been to instill a sense of fear and apprehension towards purchasing diamonds.


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To my knowledge, all of the stores represented in the forum and on Pricescope have a return policy (usually 7-30 days). Just have them send it to an independent appraiser. If it doesn't check out, send it back.




I looked at Tiff and the price difference just was not worth it to me. And, even if you buy it from Tiff you should still have it appraised.

 

[valeria101]

Tiffany diamonds are much better than the average non-brand, but are worse and more expensive than specialty cuts (such as H&As) which guarantee better light return. Tiffany guarantees other desirable features of the diamond, but not light return. So there are better diamonds to be had out there, and at better prices to boot. However, the quality of Tiff's settings is hard to find elsewhere, and if you get lucky, it will not be cheap at all. The precission manufacturing and overall quality of those settings (this goes for the other top brands too) are not to be compared with mass-products, but rather with custom-made settings. This, even if some stores cary settings very close in design to the Tiffany classic (check out Niceice).

I would not ask my jeweler to copy a complicated Schlumberger design and get all the details perfectly. It would not make any sense. Does this make the brand markup worth-while? Depends on what you are after, really.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

A man can get a similar effect from some women with a Tiffany diamond for $10k as he can with a $100k Porsche.

Some men want to get that effect once, so Tiffany is cost effective.

Others want to repeat the process over and over, so a Porsche is better value.

What type of man are you?

 

[valeria101]

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On 12/9/2003 5:34:46 AM Cut Nut wrote:

A man can get a similar effect from some women with a Tiffany diamond for $10k as he can with a $100k Porsche.

Some men want to get that effect once, so Tiffany is cost effective. Others want to repeat the process over and over, so a Porsche is better value.

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Don't people change cars more often than upgrade E-rings ???

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

My wife drove the same porsche as she did with her former hubby

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

And who you need to change partners to have more than 1 at a time?

 

[magna2]

To answer your question simply - YES!!!

Many of the forum members would try to sway you into buying something other than a Tiffany by telling you how much more you can buy (size and quality) with the cash that you would be spending on a Tiffany. While all that may be true, there are the intangibles to which CutNut alluded to.

CutNut's analogy of Tiffany and Porsche is so appropos; The Porsche, like the Tiffanys, is a exceptional product that many will consider not the top-line in their own product category. There will always be different opinions/camps on whether it is true or not but you can not argue the value and prestige of a Porsche, and for that matter a Tiffany.

Who you buy from should be based on how comfortable you feel working with. Aljdewey makes a good point that there are many fine on-line jewelers/vendors and that a person should have no qualms about buying diamonds from them. However, I do not quite agree with the assessment that they live in a fishbowl for all to see. For the past year and a half, I've lurked on PriceScope and another forum and have seen that on the other forum, when negative experiences were posted, the offending vendor would disparage the poster and the vendor's proponents would come out of the woodworks to flame the poster. The vitriolic attacks causes the posters to slinker away. Why that happens? Well, the other forum is funded mostly by vendors who are pushing their wares and thus the moderator allows it. There happens to be more civility on this forum and more genuine members willing to help and educate. Plus the moderator does a much better job in keeping discussions from disintegrating into personal attacks.

So, whether you buy from Tiffany, branded H&As, or other jewelers (off-line or on-line), ultimately you have to decide what makes sense for you and what your comfort level is.

 

[valeria101]

"Basically, I’m not confident in finding a relationship of trust through online dealers, or even through local jewelers based on the recommendations of “strangers”. However, is this the purchase that I should be gambling with or entering into without a guarantee of trust and security? With a purchase such as this one, I need to first of all feel comfortable with the reputation and the guarantee of the person on the other end of the bargaining table. Only then can I begin to concern myself with “value”.
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There are many ways trust is build in a diamond purchase: and trusting the seller is the least of them. First came time-honored practices such as independent certificates and appraisers, then transaction security instruments such as escrow accounts and inspection periods, and long-term safety measures such as insurance, trade-up and by-back policies. Compared to this cocktail, buying on the basis of seller's reputation alone sounds the riskiest and surely is the most expensive route. Here goes...




You are a dream buyer: once a seler would hear this, he can practically charge you whatever premium not for the stone or setting, but for a bunch of paper guaranteeing those. In ths case, you are ready to pay a 20% premium on the Tiffany Cert. That particular piece of paper guarantees an good diamond, one of the best settings, and an exceptional rip off. Well? How is this for a buying guide????


Your issues are not yours alone: this is why there are certifying labs (most people in and outside the business believe GIA and AGS certs to be right, and both labs can work for you too), appraisers (making money exactly from people's doubts) and education opportunities.




Usually, lack of information and it's side effects (such as the lack of trust) cost buyers' money one way or another: of course, you can be cheated or you pay for reasurance more than needed. YOUR CHOICE! of course, a buyer may not expect to know more than the seller (well, check the B&M themed posts for a few pearls) but there is a limit.


Would I buy online? I did many times. Would I buy from Tiffany: likewise. However, I would not pay Tiffany's premium for safety alone. Tiffany is a jewelry store, not insurance company.




All this relatively harsh language is meant to set apart the value of jewelry from the value of accompanying services and the value of safety. All three are incorporated in each E-ring, and, of course, any one budget limit holds just as much of each. What % you want to pay for each, it is your call, but it does not hurt to acknowledge the respective shares. I'd say...

 

[diamond dazed]

Domer,

Here's the good news -- with what you've learned already, you won't find yourself biting at the "frozen spit" that a maul shop offers.

The bad news is that, for the moment, that leaves you stuck in limbo, sort of -- too smart for the maul, and still wary of the internet.

I think the answer to your problem is pretty straight forward -- use an Independent Appraiser. Find one you like, check him/her out extensively, and then find a seller that is willing to send the diamond to be verified, some will even let you do this *before* you pay for it.

Tiffany's would answer the quality concerns, you're not going to bring home junk if you buy there -- but would you ever be really happy knowing that you paid more than you had to for something that's not quite as good as it could have been? If you use an appraiser, you can get better quality at a fraction (maybe 1/2?) the cost. No blue box, but it's just a box -- she won't be wearing it.

Kris

 

[Chrisk327]

what was said above by everyone is very true...

You can buy more online, or even at a B&M store. The right B&M store can help you find a quality product at a good price. The right online vender here can do the same. The venders touted here have great reputations online. do a search on any of them and you'll see. they do operate in a fishbowl. This forum is not filtered for complaints. If someone has a problem, they post it.

However, Tiffany's has great products. They are very high quality. A H&A diamond will have better light return.. but you won't get a "bad" diamond or ring from Tiffanys. They do have some cachet(sp?) and if you want a Tiffany's ring, by all means its a good choice. The comment about Tiffany's being so "middle america" may come off as a little insulting, but is somewhat true. The mass consumerism and desire for upward mobility have made premium brands more mainstream. Just look around the projects and you'll see people sporting lots of premium branded clothing, driving used/new Lexuses etc etc. Look around the suburbs in some places you'll see people advertising their tiffany's jewelry along with their prada bags and gucci shoes.

I come from Long Island, I am a bit jaded, don't mind me. I don't mean to offend. A lot of these brands produce great products, however, their prices don't reflect the quality, they reflect their image. You can get high quality products elsewhere without the name. And my feeling right now, is that around by me the names are tarnished Their is a lack of cachet is everyone has one, so why pay for it?

After doing research my main feeling was that most people buy crappy jewelry. I read somewhere 95% of the jewelery sold is virtually worthless that includes a lot of engagement rings. I set out to find a nice ring with a nice diamond for my girl without paying an extreme markup. After almost buying at bluenile.com I ended up here and learned a lot more. Point is, make an informed decision and know what you're buying. As long as you have the info and know what you're paying for, you made the right choice.

Point of note.... No one here will bombard you with emails selling you a diamond. Any of the reputable venders will not send you email or private messages without a formal request.

 

[fire&ice]

I'm the one who made the comment that Tiffany's is *so* Middle America. I stand by it. While you can expect a "certain" level of quality, Tiffany items aren't that great to fork over the premium. You can have better at less elsewhere. Period.

I don't buy the Porche analogy. One does not wear the blue box. Only the wearer will know it's from Tiffany. If that is *very* important to her & she doesn't care about the premium cost, then that is your choice.

Besides, people don't realize that even if you are buying from a B&M store, you might be buying on-line anyway. Polygon is the jewelers on line network.

I don't think you can beat the *value* offered by many on-line retailers.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Okay, I am a HUGE Tiffany & Co. fan. If I hit the jackpot, half would be spent on Tiffany jewelry

But, that said, I would never buy an eng. ring there. A simple solitaire set with an AMAZING H&A diamond can be found through any number of online vendors, and the diamond would sparkle AS MUCH or more than any Tiffany's stone and I would save a lot of money or end up with a larger stone for the same price as a smaller Tiffany diamond. I think Tiffany is great for their one of a kind designs and if I purchased a ring there, it would be one of the more unique rings not a solitaire that any person with PS has a helper could put together on his/her own

Michelle

 

[Mara]

hehehee....

Nagging voice? Buy at Tiffany's? All I will say is do not get hung up on the brand. A diamond is a diamond is a diamond no matter who sells it or what they call it or how much they charge for it. Do some cost comparisons and see if you are still interested in a Tiffany stone.




I own Tiffany jewelry and like the blue box but I would never buy any serious $$ jewelry there unless it was a specific design I could not find or replicate elsewhere. Definitely would never pay that markup for an e-ring...I'd get a chip for the same price as my ring and stone was now. Also it's so passe. Everyone has the Tiffany engagement ring or a replica. Take this opportunity and be unique!

 

[Hest88]

If you're worried and can afford it, go with Tiffany. As long as you're aware that you're overpaying by 30-40% for a stone that's nice, but may not be ideal.

Otherwise, if you're not in a hurry, stick around for a few months. The more you read and participate, the more likely you'll be to get comfortable with the idea of buying online. Remember, the online Pricescope jewelers are not computer geeks shipping out diamonds like milk; they are experienced jewelers--many with real storefronts--who just utilize the Internet as an additional tool to reach more customers.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 12/9/2003 2:01:31 PM Hest88 wrote:


Remember, the online Pricescope jewelers are not computer geeks shipping out diamonds like milk; they are experienced jewelers--many with real storefronts--who just utilize the Internet as an additional tool to reach more customers.
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I think it's even one step further than that. These are experienced jewelers who specialize in the finest cuts....and the market for that is very niched. In a given city, there may be only a handful or two of candidates for such well-cut stones.....but by reaching to a larger audience on the internet, they are able to expand their well-cut offerings and specialize in same.

In a sense, they are "Tiffany-like" in that they cater to a group that looks for a higher quality than typically found through normal channels.

 

[dawei213]

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On 12/9/2003 10:38:28 PM domer wrote:


PS - fire&ice - I definitely hear what you're saying about Tiffany's being 'so middle America', and I'm not saying I disagree. I guess you could liken their brand to Bose for you audiophiles out there

(Not to say both don't produce a wonderful product, but you're definitely paying more for the brand recognition.)----------------

Bose sucks. They spend most of their money on marketing rather than research and development. Kinda like Zales. Sorry, audiophile here!

Here is a post I made on diamondtalk.com, but I'd like to repost here just to share my experiences...

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Domer, I understand where you are coming from as I was in the same situation as well. My gf always loved Tiffany and hoped the e-ring (she knows, she doesn't know when) is from Tiffany. I thought to myself, ok I know Tiffany carries a preminum but probably not by a lot. And besides, if I buy a Tiffany I know I won't be getting ripped off and I trust the brand name. Boy was I wrong about the pricing! (this was about 2 weeks ago when I went to the Tiffany store to check out the pricing). Well to make a long story short, I decided to learn as much as I can about diamonds and e-ring and then make an educated purchase. 3 weeks ago, all I know is that diamonds are formed by coal being superheated and pressurized over the course of millions of years. Well, over the course of the last two weeks I've learned how the quality of the cut can make a difference in the fire and dispersion of light being reflected or why the color of the diamond can look better than is rated (again depending on whether it's a well cut stone or not). I immerse myself in learning this topic as so to make a purchase that I understand. All this time learning these materials, I almost forgot about getting a Tiffany. But what got me completely away from purchasing a Tiffany and believing I can get a great quality diamond at other places, including over the Internet, was when I was about to talk to (as in post) other members in forums (Pricescope.com). There I found a lot of members had great purchasing experiences and great purchases through certain online vendors, inclduing SuperbCert. It was from there past experiences did I had the confidence in some of the online vendors. Those member's experiences and some of their knowledge and willnessing to help answer any questions I have were invaluable to me.

Fast forward to now: I recently ordered a 1.015 ct ACA H&A J VS2 w/ setting. Though it was more than I originally intended to spend, I feel after doing all the research I believe I have purchased a e-ring that my girlfriend would love it even though it's not a Tiffany.

In the end, I'll tell my fiance the quality of the diamond, what the Heart and Arrow mean, show her how to use a loupe, etc...and I hope that she'll appreciate that I took the time and effort in making a decision so personal to her.

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[Chrisk327]

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Well, it looks like this is going to be a long and laborious journey, but I'm not willing to pay the Tiffany markup just to be able to go in a pick up a ring. I think I owe it to myself and my future fiance to really spend the time and effort to make this the most educated purchase I have, or ever will, make...even if it pushes my proposal timeline back a bit.
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Ok, you wanna pick it up? you wanna look at the diamond??? Guess what, its significantly cheaper for you to fly accross the country stay at a hotel and pick out your ring from one of these online sellers, than to buy at Tiffany's.

I suggest you do that. Maybe flying accross the country is extreme... but why not find one within a few hrs drive of you and make an appointment and go. I'm sure any of the venders would be more than happy to help you and go through the process. This is what I did... turns out after doing the research I live 20 minutes from Good Old Gold. I spent 2.5 hrs one saturday with them going through some different stones and comparing different tests firsthand and bought a diamond. Granted this may not be the norm in internet business transactions... but it is an option....

Chris

 

[strmrdr]

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On 12/10/2003 9:30:37 AM dawei213 wrote:

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On 12/9/2003 10:38:28 PM domer wrote:





In the end, I'll tell my fiance the quality of the diamond, what the Heart and Arrow mean, show her how to use a loupe, etc...and I hope that she'll appreciate that I took the time and effort in making a decision so personal to her.


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If she dont then grab the ring and run and never talk to her again.
She should love you enough to be happy with a peice of quartz wrapped in a twist-tie.
Not that I recomend you get her that.
My fiance would kill me if I spent $5k on a ring for her and Im proud of that. :}
There are more important things in life than a hunk of aged carbon.
Like love, respect and devotion.

 

[yngdaniel]

I couldn't justify the price difference. The product quality at Tiffany's was outstanding, at least for the rings I saw. My ring, a .79 princess cut in platinum, would likely have been double the price at Tiffany. I was looking at stones half this size and still would have paid more than I did online.

Thing about it is... the only real difference is in the design/craftsmanship of the ring itself, their stones are no better than high quality stones you can get anywhere. Thousands of $$ for a nicer ring alone? It didn't make sense.

 

[pilotspub]

Here is a different twist on this... you're asking the opinion of an obviously biased audience. The folks that frequent this forum are --- for the most part --- dedicated to finding the best quality, lowest priced stones from any source. I won't even mention that online forums tend to lean towards online vendors because the audience is more accustomed to dealing online and because, if done methodically, you can find a lower price. All that said... Tiffany doesn't give you that. They don't compete online because they are not priced to compete online. When you give your girl her ring you'll certainly puff up your chest and say "I got it from Tiffany's" if that's true. She doesn't have to be a diamond expert nor know the different between clarity and claret to know what you've done. Is that worth the extra price... your choice. Will she ever walk around and tell her friends "Look -- and it's from Tiffany's" If she would --- then it may be worth the price to you and her.

I personally like Mercedes... not the best car. But everyone that climbs in the passenger seat feels a little more special.

If I could afford it -- I would buy tiffany's.

 

[tessa]

I wasn't interested in Tiffany before the forums made it seem so attractive.

But for almost $10K you can get so much larger and better a stone and the setting for close to the 1K mark that it is likely you can get the exact same thing in the long run.

I really don't know if people really say....it's from Tiffany's ..... or of they ask.
If so, then snob appeal may count for a lot from her POV.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 2/11/2004 1:18:35 AM pilotspub wrote:





When you give your girl her ring you'll certainly puff up your chest and say 'I got it from Tiffany's' if that's true. She doesn't have to be a diamond expert nor know the different between clarity and claret to know what you've done.

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This is just one person's opinion I'm about to express.....but my chest would most DEFINITELY NOT puff at the notion that a ring was from Tiffany's.

To me, name-dropping is exactly the type of snobby behavior I eschew. Those things that are supposed to be "status symbols".....they actually turn me off because the association I make with it is "pretentious, insincere snob".

I recognize there are those who buy there for instrinic reasons.....but I'm not under the ether. Most people buy the "status", and I abhor that mentality.

 

[Nicrez]

Tiffany's in NY only carries G and H stones. I have a discerning eyes and not only were their stones too yellow "for such fine standards", but they cost more and were darker and in my opinion not cut for optimal brilliance.

It's great to know your partner and if they want Tiffany's and it's in your budget, go for it. But IDEALLY it's best to find the best quality without getting fleeced.

For example: I happen to love Coco Chanel parfume (not Eua de Toilette) and my friend at work keeps saying "What the hell's the difference other than it being twice the price?!" That's my choice because I like the better quality and will pay for it. But with Tiffany's they don't even advertise their quality, because they can't. They advertise the "dream" of Tiffany's, and the image. That's what you are buying. That's all.

I could easily wear an imposter body spray, but hey, I like what I like and if someone likes Tiffany's for an e-ring, who cares, god bless.

If everyone was saavy and a good shopper, I wouldn't get such good deals!

 

[Nicrez]

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On 12/9/2003 10:38:28 PM domer wrote:



Then again, like Horizon mentioned, it may just be the Cuellar book that has made me so uptight and skeptical of the good people just trying to expand their reach to a knowledgable customer base. It's funny, because it's true Besides, even in the most basic of economics classes, one of the fundamentals of supply and demand is that perfect competition mostly benefits the consumer in the way of lower prices. I guess not having 'diamond powerhouse' online is a good thing.----------------

Ok, First of all Fred Crueller is NOT the Authority on Diamonds. He has a vested interest in scaring you away from the internet. Why? He has known connections to diamond seller and also runs a "My Gemologist" service of being the intermediary for your diamond purchase. He is trying to take the power of purchasing from a cheaper source, and bring you into his web of stone trading to make more money off a scared and nervous person who doesn't trust anyone but the expert.

Me perosnally, I'd be wary of anyone who makes profit when being a "authority", and making you buy his books (which are scare machines to new buyers).

Stick with the REAL authorities of these PS gemologists who give advice on this post for free, and with all the consumers whoe buying and research trends help you more than any "appraiser". We got better quality and service here than the appraiser we dealt with, and he was "hightly recommended" and just as Highly expensive for less info than we got here!!!

Just my $.02 which always seems to be like $.04!

 

[roshita]

I would recommend that you take up the advice of taking your time and getting educated. You may become comfortable and find that paying a high premium price for a sense of security may not be necessary. Ultimately it is still your dilemma.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Why was this thread resurrected??

And, it's not Friday. Friday is the day we discuss Tiffany's.

 

[Mara]

LOL PQ....




Yes another ressurected old Tiffany thread..and it's only Wed.

What is the world coming to!

 

[Nicrez]

But Sunday is "humpday", where we are bored and cranky about it not being Friday, so the Tiffany's thread comes up but only briefly and not with such enthusiasm as Fridays merit...