I need help. Is my diamond diameter too small?

[benjaminfranklin863]

Hi all,

This is my first post, but I love reading the forum. I put a deposit on a round brilliant diamond engagement ring, so I haven't paid for it yet. I can still back out. I wanted to get the forum's opinion on the diameter and proportions of the diamond. The proportions are from the GIA certificate. I haven't seen the diamond in person, yet. Hence the reason I did not buy it. I'm only reserving it, because its in the workshop.

Its a 0.76 carat E color VS2

The proportions are as follows:

Measurments - 5.79 - 5.83 - 3.61

Cut Grade - Excellent

Polish Grade - Excellent

Symmetry - Excellent

Fluorescence - None

Clarity Characteristics - Cloud, Crystal

Table - 58%

Crown Angle - 35.5

Pavilion Angle - 41.0

Depth - 62.1

Cutlet - None

Girdle - Medium to Slightly Thick, faceted


The weight ratio is 1.078 or 1.08. Which is technically Excellent cut by GIA, very good starts at 1.09. So you can see its barely there. It should be between 1.0 and 1.05. If the weight ratio was 1.03 the diameter would be 5.9 mm for a 0.76 carat diamond.

My concern is that for a 0.76 carat diamond the diameter should be 5.9mm , but my diamond has an average diameter of 5.81. So I'm afraid it will look smaller than 0.76 carat. I have some GIA calculations to back up my concern if you're interested. Is it possible to have a lower diameter to maximize light passage and brilliance. Or do you think the jeweler is trying to make more profit by hiding some of the weight in the depth or somewhere else on the diamond? Or am I being over analytical? hahahaThank you all for your help.

 

[dawnxcui]

i think proportions and face up size should be the least of your concerns when it comes to this diamond.
This diamond will not sparkle. it will look dull and you will be wasting your money.

take a few minutes and use the HCA tool we have on this forum, plug in all the angles and you'll see that your diamond gets a score of 4.0 which means (it's only good if price is your main criterion).

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

only consider diamonds with a HCA rating of 2.0 or under, then ask the vendor for an idealscope picture.

or provide us with your budget/color/carat/clarity criteria and the experts will find you a gorgeous diamond for your price point.

 

[D&T]

look for another diamond. Use this HCA tool to help you reject some poor performers

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

under 2 preferably... Sometimes in the 2 range is pretty and I don't knock those down at all but you will need more evaluation done.
The diameter on your stone is not bad.

if you want to maximize the diameter without sacrificing performance.

keep your angle in the 34 range. I like 35.5 as you have but the angles of the pavilion has to work with the crown angel and this does not and depth try for somewhere in the 61% although 62 is just fine (others go down to 62.4 - fine). Girdle, medium or thin - medium... weight is somewhat hidden in the an overly thick girdle.

not sure what your budget is or what your goal is? what do you want to achieve? Size? and are you set on E color?


ETA: oops looks like Dawn already gave you a link to help with rejections of diamonds.

 

[benjaminfranklin863]

Really?!? That is quite alarming. Almost too alarming to handle. I will check out the tool you mentioned. Why do think it won't sparkle that much? What characteristics are causing that?

 

[D&T]

your pavilion angle is what is causing the HCA score unfortunately which causes some leakage here. I don't mind the crown actually BUT again your pavilion has to work with the crown angle.

ETA: your crown angle could be lessen just a wee bit like I said maybe down in the 34 range

 

[dawnxcui]

Really?!? That is quite alarming. Almost too alarming to handle. I will check out the tool you mentioned. Why do think it won't sparkle that much? What characteristics are causing that?

give these a read.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/technologies/aconsumersguidetothehca/

http://goodoldgold.com/Technologies/ReflectorTechnologies/WhatdoReflectorsTeachUs/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/classic/the_idealscope_firescope_tm.htm

 

[benjaminfranklin863]

Why did GIA give it an Excellent cut rating if its leaking light? That's terrible. I'm very upset right now. Very upset.

 

[benjaminfranklin863]

So if the pavilion angle was a 40.0 and the crown angle was a 35.5 then it would be excellent.

 

[dawnxcui]

Why did GIA give it an Excellent cut rating if its leaking light? That's terrible. I'm very upset right now. Very upset.

simply put, the GIA grading on cut is not as stringent.
you want to look for a diamond with an ideal cut, however, the most GIA will grade is excellent, and you'll have to learn from this forum on how to pick the ideal ones out of the bunch of excellents.

http://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/gia-ex-vs-ags-ideal-1329.htm

dont be mad, be glad ( i feel like that's from a commercial... )
at least you asked the forum before it's too late.
i'd get a refund on your deposit and start looking at the trusted PriceScope vendors.
learn about idealscope and aset images 10 minutes of reading will save you thousands of dollars.

 

[D&T]

here is a good read.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/Articles/GIACutGrading/Grade3/


and what a < 2 HCA could look like

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.76-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-359056


and when I said that some diamonds in the 2 range can be Beautiful but need further evaluation..

see here:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3237349.htm

this has even steeper crown (more fiery) but have the perfect pavilion to compensate the steep crown. This is also a little deep(er) but WF has seen this diamond so I would also have no problem with this one even though its in the 2 range.

Your 40. is too shallow.

 

[RockyRacoon]

What is your budget?

We'll find you something better.

 

[benjaminfranklin863]

Thank you guys for your help. I emailed the jeweler and he said that the specs for this diamond fall within the range of proportion that is considered "ideal". The cutting parameters noted here give us the assurance that this stone will have amazing fire. He also said if I'm using the HCA program don't get too attached, because it has been roundly discredited by GIA and just about every other proper gemological entity on the planet.

What do you think? It sucks because I can't see the diamond yet.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Thank you guys for your help. I emailed the jeweler and he said that the specs for this diamond fall within the range of proportion that is considered "ideal". The cutting parameters noted here give us the assurance that this stone will have amazing fire. He also said if I'm using the HCA program don't get too attached, because it has been roundly discredited by GIA and just about every other proper gemological entity on the planet.

What do you think? It sucks because I can't see the diamond yet.

I would insist on some sources for this statement. Short of being able to produce *evidence* to support that statement I wouldn't get too "attached" to the idea of giving this guy my money.

 

[RockyRacoon]

I emailed the jeweler and he said that the specs for this diamond fall within the range of proportion that is considered "ideal". The cutting parameters noted here give us the assurance that this stone will have amazing fire. He also said if I'm using the HCA program don't get too attached, because it has been roundly discredited by GIA and just about every other proper gemological entity on the planet.

HA!

RUN!!!

 

[Gypsy]

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[Daikon]

The HCA is a rejection tool... ...No score 2 and under is better than any other.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

Thank you for that Gypsy. I knew under 2 was good from my reading but I did not know that!