I''m almost wishing I hadn''t found this site...

[sumgonat]

My BF surprised me and proposed last month with a beautiful ring from BN; we had to send it back to BN for resizing. While it was away for 3 weeks, I found this site and learned about diamond cut, etc. When I received the ring from BN, I noticed it was noted as "Very Good" cut. I was a little concerned about this, so I plugged in the diamond''s information in the HCA tool and it rates at 6: very good spread, very good light return, poor scintillation, poor fire.

I was kind of disappointed about this, but then I felt like I was being pretty ungrateful, so I''m not allowing myself to focus on these numbers.

Here are the diamond''s measurements/angles:

1.01 ct, F, VS2, Medium Blue Fluorescence, Ex/Ex/Ex

Table: 60%
Depth: 62%
Crown Angle: 35.0
Pavilion Angle: 41.6

Since there is a 30-day return policy with BN, I was wondering if I should bring up this up to my BF. It seems that many people on here would scream "RUN!" from this diamond, but I don''t find it to be all that bad. It sparkles quite a bit, exhibits sparks and flashes of fire in sunlight, incandescent, and halogen lighting; I''ve received sincere complements on the fact that it is so sparkly. I don''t have a lot of fine jewlery, so maybe I''m just easily impressed about these things.

I searched on BN and it''s not easy to find something in a similar price range ($6700), unless I bump the clarity down to S1 (I really wouldn''t want to go much lower than G on color). Since BN can''t sell the diamond separate from the setting, I would have to find a stone at BN to replace it.

Could I really get something that performs that much better at a similar price point? I have yet to compare the stone to more ideal cuts, so I really have no base of comparison.

Thanks in advance!

 

[E B]

What's most important is how the diamond performs to your eye. Ignoring the numbers, do you love it?

Unfortunately, now that you've found PS, you might be dealing with the mind-clean issue and cannot ignore the numbers.

If you find you'd like to trade it in, this might be a nice alternative (check with BN to see if it's eye-clean):

1.02 F, SI1 AGS 000 $6472

For some reason, I'm not able to view the cert, but Blue Nile can provide one.

 

[VVFF]

Honestly, as the guy I might be kinda offended if you wanted to return it. There is a certain value to the fact that he spent the time to pick out the one he did(at least in my opinion). You have the rest of your life to collect different rings. I don''t see any reason that you should return it simply because a calculator told you it wasn''t perfect. That''s the diamond he gave you and, to me, that''s the one that''s special.

 

[JulieN]

Date: 9/15/2008 5:44:37 PM
Author: VVFF
Honestly, as the guy I might be kinda offended if you wanted to return it. There is a certain value to the fact that he spent the time to pick out the one he did(at least in my opinion). You have the rest of your life to collect different rings. I don't see any reason that you should return it simply because a calculator told you it wasn't perfect. That's the diamond he gave you and, to me, that's the one that's special.

He was on BN... it could not have taken him a very long time...if he did not find Price Scope...

Anyway, if you have mind-clean issues, you should return it...it might hit you hard after your return period is over.

 

[swingirl]

Only you can assess whether or not your BF would be offended. Would he rather get more for his money or is he sentimental about the stone and all the effort he put into it? And if you love it, the numbers don''t matter.

 

[VVFF]

Date: 9/15/2008 5:58:59 PM
Author: JulieN

Date: 9/15/2008 5:44:37 PM
Author: VVFF
Honestly, as the guy I might be kinda offended if you wanted to return it. There is a certain value to the fact that he spent the time to pick out the one he did(at least in my opinion). You have the rest of your life to collect different rings. I don''t see any reason that you should return it simply because a calculator told you it wasn''t perfect. That''s the diamond he gave you and, to me, that''s the one that''s special.

He was on BN... it could not have taken him a very long time...if he did not find Price Scope...

Anyway, if you have mind-clean issues, you should return it...it might hit you hard after your return period is over.

I bought my diamond(setting is being made by WF) from BN and I spent months learning about the details of my purchase. I had simply been satisfied with BN in the past and decided to stick with who I trusted. Simply because you go to BN does not mean you spent no time picking out the exact diamond you wanted.

Even if he didn''t spend that much time worrying about the exact diamond, its still the one he picked and its the one you accepted when you accepted his proposal(sorry I''m old fashioned in that regard). Trading it in MAY make him feel like he messed up. Depending on his personality of course. I know I wouldn''t like it one bit.

An engagement ring is more than just fire and scintillation, its the only ring you''ll get in your life(hopefully...well I suppose their''s the wedding band as well) that means more than just a gift.

I say keep what you got!

 

[neatfreak]

I say trade it in if you know it won''t offend him. I.e., you know he didn''t spend months deciding on a stone. If you can glean this info from him, and/or you know he wouldn''t mind, TRADE IT.

But you have to tread delicately on his feelings...if you think he spent a ton of time selecting *THIS STONE* for you, and/or he is very sensitive about these kind of things, you need to decide whether it is worth making him upset over or not.

 

[Stone-cold11]

Or you could tell him what you found out about cut. He could be aghast too at buying what he thought was an ideal stone and giving it to you. I know I would. But it is his personality and you know him best.

Good luck.

 

[sumgonat]

To be honest, I didn''t grill my BF about how he went about making his purchase decision. In the past, he has bought me a platinum bracelet and diamond earrings from BN, which I love and wear. I know he likes BN, which is probably why he chose to buy from that site.

He did say that he looked for about 2 weeks and was deciding between 6 different ring settings. He said he looked somewhere else other than BN, but he didn''t like the settings offered at this place. He didn''t go to any B&M stores to look. That''s about all I know; like I said, I wasn''t going to grill him about it because I really appreciated the gesture and the engagement was a total surprise. Honestly, I feel lucky to have anything this nice on my finger right now.

I can''t really say that he has any sentimental attachment to the stone. I am sure he tried to buy the best stone he could for the money he was able to spend and that''s actually how we, as a couple, go about making most major purchases--getting the most for our money and doing tons of research. Here''s a good example: For Xmas, a couple of years ago, I bought him a GPS when they were still quite expensive. I couldn''t afford a GPS with a color display, so he got one with a monochrome display. I could tell he was a little disappointed it didn''t have color. The next year, I bought him a nicer GPS, in color. My feelings wouldn''t have been hurt if he returned it and got a better GPS, but I knew it was what he wanted and I bought it for him when I could afford it.

That said, I could totally see how someone could be offended, which is why I didn''t run up to him and ask him how he could of bought me a diamond that scores a 6 on the HCA tool.

 

[cmarie]

I agree with a couple others who have said to just look at the diamond, ignoring the specs, and ask yourself how much you like it. There is some value in this being the one you were given, but the quality of the stone should weigh in on it too, assuming your guy isn''t super sentimental about these things.

What really matters is if you like what you see when you look at the diamond -- if so, then great! if not, then you have to decide if it''s worth suggesting a switch.

 

[neatfreak]

If you think he won''t have any sentimental attachment to it...ask if him to tell you about how he picked the stone, if he knows about CUT as the most important C, if he found PS...etc. You will quickly get a feel for whether he just picked the stone out of the blue or whether he spent a lot of time on it.

 

[strmrdr]

overall brightness of that general combo is 93% of tolk.(the default ideal cut)
Fire potential is about ~95% I would guess, there is no one number for this like brightness.
The biggest visible difference will be dark zones pointed to here and a larger loss of brightness when titled.
This stone would actually be better without good optical symmetry as it might fill them in a bit.

There are so many variables in scintillation that I cant begin to address it so ignore that part of the hca.

 

[MMT]

If you love your diamond I wouldn''t worry about the numbers. If you don''t love your diamond find a nice way to approach your fiance.

 

[Sharon101]

I personally would go to Blue Nile and see for `myself` what is available to swap within your budget. Then you can see with your own eyes whether it would even be worth swapping. Im guessing you will possibly do better (and Im splitting hairs here) in say fire but the stone may be darker or smaller or less lively in a different way. I would be scared that in trying to be too clever you end up with something different but not necessarily better.

But it wouldnt stop me looking to rule it out for myself. Im guessing that without an overall increase in budget you are not going to significantly do better in a way thats worth the bother and stress.

Im also guessing that your partner is a reasonable sort of guy and would not be offended if you did find a better deal. He probably has more sentiment attached to the design of the ring. I do get the impression that he would always choose the best he could with available knowledge and funds which is kinda nice!!!!

Finally, and most important, if in your real life, you are getting genuine compliments, that would carry the most weight for me. I too have a ring that to my surprise gets endless compliments and it scores very low on these sorts of tests which did upset me too!!!!

 

[Fly Girl]

I'd for sure talk to him soon about the diamond, before the 30 day return period is up. If you don't, he might be upset with you if you don't say anything, the return period expires, and then he finds out he could have gotten you a stone with better cut. I know my husband would want me to have the prettiest stone possible. It sounds like your BF spent most of his time looking at settings, and did his best to pick out a nice stone, because an F VS2 is absolutely my sweet spot as well. If he had known about cut, I'm sure he would have picked a different stone.

So, talk to him before it's too late.

ETA: You will see a difference side by side between yours and better cut diamonds.

 

[Regular Guy]

Not sure...how could I be...but given this text...

Date: 9/15/2008 6:28:37 PM
Author: sumgonat
To be honest, I didn''t grill my BF about how he went about making his purchase decision. In the past, he has bought me a platinum bracelet and diamond earrings from BN, which I love and wear. I know he likes BN, which is probably why he chose to buy from that site.

He did say that he looked for about 2 weeks and was deciding between 6 different ring settings. He said he looked somewhere else other than BN, but he didn''t like the settings offered at this place. He didn''t go to any B&M stores to look. That''s about all I know; like I said, I wasn''t going to grill him about it because I really appreciated the gesture and the engagement was a total surprise. Honestly, I feel lucky to have anything this nice on my finger right now.

I can''t really say that he has any sentimental attachment to the stone. I am sure he tried to buy the best stone he could for the money he was able to spend and that''s actually how we, as a couple, go about making most major purchases--getting the most for our money and doing tons of research. Here''s a good example: For Xmas, a couple of years ago, I bought him a GPS when they were still quite expensive. I couldn''t afford a GPS with a color display, so he got one with a monochrome display. I could tell he was a little disappointed it didn''t have color. The next year, I bought him a nicer GPS, in color. My feelings wouldn''t have been hurt if he returned it and got a better GPS, but I knew it was what he wanted and I bought it for him when I could afford it.

That said, I could totally see how someone could be offended, which is why I didn''t run up to him and ask him how he could of bought me a diamond that scores a 6 on the HCA tool.

and the fact that you know the cost...I''d be sympathetic to continuing the partnership on the discovery.

Just be considerate with your language as you maybe describe the discovery of Pricescope...as well as your love for the gift & thought...etc.

 

[Laurie2]

Everyone has an opinion but I have had two diamond rings in my lifetime and both were not well cut diamonds. I''m 47 and just got married in June. My engagement ring has a diamond in it about the same size as yours. I finally decided that I wanted to go for an excellent cut instead of size. I bought a very well cut stone today that scored 0.6 on the HCA however its only .40 carat weight. But I''m happy with my decision. Everyone is different. But the dullness in my stone always bugged me even though I tried to pretend it didn''t. Of course you have to consider how your bf feels about it.

I also understand getting addicted to this place. I think I''m beyond addicted and entering the obcessed relm. So I don''t have the magic answer for you but just wanted to chime in and say I understand. Congrats on your engagement.

 

[sumgonat]

So, I went to 2 local jewelry chain stores tonight to see what their "ideal" cuts look like and to compare the light performance to my stone.

First of all, I'm really glad my BF did not buy from these places; their sales people are quite misinformed and they are very overpriced.

It really felt like the time I went shopping for my car, and I knew more about the model of car I was going to buy than the car salespeople. Anyway, I was only able to view the stones under the store lighting and not by a window for insurance reasons. While my stone looked nice in the lighting too, I could tell that the stone with the better cut reflected more facets of colored light, especially in the center section. Would I say that the difference was so great as to call it "Poor" and the ideal stone "Excellent"--probably not. I had to eyeball it pretty close, and I doubt many would see or notice anything more than a slight minor difference under normal viewing circumstances.

Thanks, Karl, for the image and information. That's pretty consistent with what I am seeing in my stone. The dark circle is not that noticeable in the setting, except maybe when I tilt the stone to the side or cover up the pavilion from behind the setting. I cut a small hole in the center of a piece of white paper and looked at the stone and the whiteness seemed pretty uniform throughout.

Sharon, I agree with you, that it is a gamble when you trade stones sight unseen and you never know what you may be giving up for the trade. This is something that is holding me back, too.

I appreciate everyone's comments; I'm not sure what I'll do, but your comments will be helpful as I think through it.

 

[sumgonat]

I searched BN and found one that looks promising and is about the same as what my BF paid:

Cut: Ideal
Depth: 61.9%
Table %: 55%
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Strong blue
Measurements: 6.88 x 6.86 x 4.25 mm
Crown Angle: 34.5
Pavilion Angle: 41

HCA score: 1.8

Do the measurements look ok?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/15/2008 9:17:40 PM
Author: sumgonat
I searched BN and found one that looks promising and is about the same as what my BF paid:


Cut: Ideal

Depth: 61.9%

Table %: 55%

Symmetry: Excellent

Polish: Excellent

Girdle: Thin to medium

Culet: None

Fluorescence: Strong blue

Measurements: 6.88 x 6.86 x 4.25 mm

Crown Angle: 34.5

Pavilion Angle: 41


HCA score: 1.8


Do the measurements look ok?

lgf%?
75 or 80 on a gia report diagram...if its an ags report its a number in the 70s or 80s.
Whats the number?

 

[sumgonat]

Karl, I believe it's 80%; in the report the 80% line goes from the edge of the girdle to side of the pavilion (sorry, I don't know what "lgf" refers to).

 

[neatfreak]

sumgonat
Unfortunately store lighting only really serves to make most of the stones look similar...the greatest differences in the cuts will be under other lighting conditions IMO.

 

[astraea]

If I were you, I''d take advantage of the return policy. My engagement ring is from BN, and yes, my fiancee is very upset with me that I don''t like it anymore. I tried and tried to like it but especially since finding PS, and knowing there''s better diamonds out there, it''s driving me crazy. (So, the mind clean issue comes up!) Now I''m stuck footing the bill of my new E-ring since we''re well past the 30 day mark! But, I know I''m going to be happy with my new ring, it might not be the size I''d like because of my budget but it''ll be a little firecracker.

Disclaimer: Of course, I''m not recommending you take my advice if you feel like it may cause more problems than it should. All I''m saying, if you are having second thoughts, definitely make that decision before the 30 day period is up -- otherwise it could just drive you crazy, like it has for me.

Anyway, definitely go with your heart on this one. Good luck. And I''m sure everything will be fine in the end.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/15/2008 9:41:47 PM
Author: sumgonat
Karl, I believe it''s 80%; in the report the 80% line goes from the edge of the girdle to side of the pavilion (sorry, I don''t know what ''lgf'' refers to).

perfect that is what it should be.
A full sarin or an IS image would be nice to see whats in the averages but at worst it should be better than the original at best one of the best.

 

[Jelly]

I agree...if you are having your doubts now, I would definitely talk to your fiance and return the ring. I''d say 90% of the PS''ers here would take a lower clarity and maybe lower color stone that is IDEAL cut. Believe me, the cut makes the biggest difference. You will definitely notice!

Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[Rhea]

Talk to him. If the return policy is still valid there''s no reason why you can''t pick out a new stone together with your new found knowledge.

 

[sumgonat]

OK, I called BN this morning and asked them to hold the stone and ask someone to verify if it''s eye-clean (there is a crystal just under the table in the report) and if it exhibits any milky or oily-effect since the fluorescence is "Strong Blue." BN said they should have a response for me by Wednesday, and I have until Thursday to make a decision and mail off my stone to BN if I want to switch. If the report comes back favorable, I''ll approach my BF about it and if not, I''ll just stick with what I got.

To be honest, I''m a little paranoid because this stone sounds like a very good value. The stone is larger than mine and a higher grade color (just 1 notch lower in clarity), and the cost is about the same as my stone. I''m hoping this isn''t a case of "If it''s too good to be true..."

It seems suspect that a higher level of fluorescence and a slightly lower clarity could have that much effect on the price, but I don''t know much about these things.

Also, does anyone happen to have a picture of an ideal GIA "Excellent" stone next to a GIA "Very Good" stone similar to mine, in diffuse daylight? It really stinks that the jewelry stores are not helpful in this regard, and I am left unsure if this is really worth the effort.

Thanks, again, everyone.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 9/16/2008 11:18:09 AM
Author: sumgonat
OK, I called BN this morning and asked them to hold the stone and ask someone to verify if it''s eye-clean (there is a crystal just under the table in the report) and if it exhibits any milky or oily-effect since the fluorescence is ''Strong Blue.'' BN said they should have a response for me by Wednesday, and I have until Thursday to make a decision and mail off my stone to BN if I want to switch. If the report comes back favorable, I''ll approach my BF about it and if not, I''ll just stick with what I got.


To be honest, I''m a little paranoid because this stone sounds like a very good value. The stone is larger than mine and a higher grade color (just 1 notch lower in clarity), and the cost is about the same as my stone. I''m hoping this isn''t a case of ''If it''s too good to be true...''

It seems suspect that a higher level of fluorescence and a slightly lower clarity could have that much effect on the price, but I don''t know much about these things.


Also, does anyone happen to have a picture of an ideal GIA ''Excellent'' stone next to a GIA ''Very Good'' stone similar to mine, in diffuse daylight? It really stinks that the jewelry stores are not helpful in this regard, and I am left unsure if this is really worth the effort.


Thanks, again, everyone.

It isn''t as easy as just saying a GIA "excellent" vs. a GIA "very good" there are a WIDE variety of stones that would fall into those categories that won''t perform like the two diamonds you are comparing.

But with a score of 6 on the HCA, I would say that you WILL notice a difference in sparkle if you could get these two stones side by side together...will it be a huge difference? Maybe not, but at this point it''s a mind clean issue as much as anything else.

 

[sumgonat]

Neatfreak, I think you''re right; the difference is probably best exemplified by this video: GOG''s Brightness Video

 

[Kelli]

Sumgonat--- I have a VERY similar situation to yours. Only for me, I was the dummy who picked out a not-so-well cut stone, thinking it was great value for my money. I bought a GIA excellent cut, that only scored a 4.3 on the cut advisor. It took me a while of wearing it, unfortunately LONGER than my return period, but I started noticing the ugly ring of leakage in a lot of different kinds of lighting. It looked very similar to the picture Storm posted, not too attractive really. It was too late for a return, so I TRIED really hard to love it anyway. I just couldn''t. Now I am having it recut to more ideal proportions by whiteflash. It should be done soon and come back a lot nicer looking, but it is a LOOOOOOOOONG process if you''re newly engaged and want to be wearing your ring. I would recommend at least asking about returning it if you know it will drive you crazy. You don''t want to regret it later if you don''t even ask. One other thing to consider, have you talked about the option of upgrading down the road? I know for me personally, that wasn''t an option due to us being sentimental. That was why I figured with a recut, at least it''s still the same stone, just made over. But a LOT of people upgrade their diamonds from time to time. Maybe you could keep this one for a little while, knowing you could upgrade to a more well-cut stone for an anniversary or something. Just a thought. Good luck and keep us all posted either way.