How To Educate Posters Here About Minority Versus Majority Opinions

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Dear PS,

What is the best way to educate novice consumers when they have been given a "sales pitch" or "niche minority" advice or comments?

This is a common theme here, first time posters who have visited B&M jewelers (some online vendors too) and novice posters first experiences with the diamond trade. The descriptions given to these consumers about the flaws of gemstones are spun to be negligible or even described positively, or a particular stone''s merits are deceptively described much more positively that what most mainstream or quality based vendors would describe. Comments like "I see nothing wrong" or "change the lighting and you won''t notice" or any of the other excuses are made.

As a consumer education forum how should we as forum posters and consumers respond to "minority" or "used car salesman" comments or advice designed to sell and not educate or provide a basis for comparison?
How would you as consumers respond to a vendor who presented the following stones and made the following comments about them to someone who was not as descrmininating and lacked the knowledge to make a comparison?

 

[Lorelei]

I take it these images are from diamondsbylauren?

http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/categories/cushion-cut-diamond-rings

As to your question I would respond as I always do, help the poster to the best of my ability and according to whom they choose to buy from.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Yes Lorelei,
ccli s taking single photos, and lines of text out of our listings, which does not allow for context, or comparing all the other phtos and videos on the listings.
I''d value the opportunity to discuss all these stones one by one.
It might be against forum rules though.....

I go to great pains never to specifically discuss stones we are selling- or use photos of stones currently avaialbe in repsect to the forum.

If it''s OK, I''d love to!!

 

[Lurchie]

It seems to me this happens all the time, though maybe not with the specific examples you've chosen. I think the PS community is pretty good about giving their opinion on a specific diamond but following it up with "make sure you see as many diamonds as possible before deciding and if you decide you like this lesser (in our opinion) diamond, make sure it's priced well."

Dunno, seems simple, no?

ETA: ok, now I see these photos were all taken from a specific vendor's site. Have I been sucked into a backhanded attempt to bash DBL specifically?

 

[Laila619]

I think this thread is somewhat crossing a line, don''t you?

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Date: 11/11/2009 4:10:30 PM
Author: Laila619
I think this thread is somewhat crossing a line, don''t you?

I think so as well...

 

[AprilBaby]

Play nice!

 

[Kaleigh]

Crossing the line here....

 

[kenny]

The one who crossed a line is not the OP.

Many many PS members react, in vain, to he who has been crossing a line here for a long time.

His self-serving posts makes a mockery of everything PS stands for.

 

[Lorelei]

.....

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 11/11/2009 4:19:54 PM
Author: kenny
The one who crossed a line is not the OP.

Many many PS members react, in vain, to he who has been crossing a line here for a long time.

His self-serving posts makes a mockery of everything PS stands for.

I hear you and agree. BUT still say this crosses the line.

 

[Karl_K]

I shouldn't really post in this thread but am going to ignore the side issue and answer the question:

When helping someone:
Honesty and sincerity is always best.
Give your honest opinion to the best of your ability.
No one can ask more of you than that.

 

[kenny]

Clearly the community here is frustrated and at a loss as to how to solve this problem.
We are helpless to defend PS from the wrenches he delights in throwing into the machine.

He talks in circles, twists your words, exploits niceness, and even feigns it as he confuses buyers about good cut while directing eyeballs to his site for personal gain.

Everyone is being so dang PC when what's needed is a fly swatter, and screens on the windows.

This is a real problem folks.

 

[Lurchie]

Date: 11/11/2009 4:49:14 PM
Author: kenny
Clearly the community here is frustrated and at a loss on how to handle this guy.
We are helpless to defend PS from the wrenches he delights in throwing into the machine.

He exploits niceness and even feigns it.
All to confuse buyers about good cut and to direct eyeballs to his site for personal gain.

Everyone is being so dang PC when what''s needed is a fly swatter, and screens on the windows.

This is a real problem folks.

Wow, that''s some serious drama. I think you''re not giving people enough credit. The average person who comes to PS, while they may be ignorant about diamonds at first, can read. And can probably read between the lines, too. I don''t disagree with all of your characterizations, Kenny, but it''s for the moderators to decide who is and who is not a "problem."

 

[decodelighted]

Some of the most important words in the english language:

CONSIDER THE SOURCE

No one can "teach" newbie PSers who to listen to & who to dismiss. But all the info they''d ever need is here for the taking. The goal is to help the willing -- not run some agenda toward SUPER ULTIMATE PERFECTION.

 

[kenny]

I have written to the moderators to point out the problem.
Moderators can''t read everything.
That is why every post has a report button.

If you think it is time for the mods to take action please write to them.

 

[AprilBaby]

 

[kenny]

Date: 11/11/2009 5:04:28 PM
Author: decodelighted
No one can 'teach' newbie PSers who to listen to & who to dismiss. But all the info they'd ever need is here for the taking. The goal is to help the willing -- not run some agenda toward SUPER ULTIMATE PERFECTION.

Yes, it doesn't take long to see right through this guy, but it is the newbies making a quick buying decision I'm concerned about.
Lots of posters come here asking if eBay stone X is okay.

Lot of people only lurk and never ask a question.
I think looking the other way, in the name of niceness, when one guy contributes so much pollution is a mistake.

They are not going to read thousands of post to learn who to ignore - especially when he who should be ignored posts all day long being Mr. Nicenice.

 

[exoticisabella]

On a lighter note that first photo and comment is pretty funny

I can just picture somebody going into a jewelry store and saying, "I''m sorry, I don''t want that stone, the sparkle is blocking my view"

 

[Laila619]

Date: 11/11/2009 4:59:18 PM
Author: Lurchie
Wow, that''s some serious drama. I think you''re not giving people enough credit. The average person who comes to PS, while they may be ignorant about diamonds at first, can read. And can probably read between the lines, too. I don''t disagree with all of your characterizations, Kenny, but it''s for the moderators to decide who is and who is not a ''problem.''

Agree. People are smart here. They can ignore misleading advice.

 

[kenny]

You guys are forgetting what is was like to not know anything about diamonds.

This guys writes and influences really skillfully.
Plus he IS a diamond vendor who is posting here, which oozes credibility in they eyes of a newbie.
They don't know his history and that he is NOT a PS vendor.

 

[Hest88]

I also agree this is crossing the line. The original post contains information that is as misleading as the types of info the accused poster is said to generate.

Newbies don't need to search through thousands of posts to learn who to ignore; in any thread one usually gets a number of responses. The smart newbie will be able to sort through the responses in his or her thread well enough.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 11/11/2009 4:41:16 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 11/11/2009 4:19:54 PM
Author: kenny
The one who crossed a line is not the OP.

Many many PS members react, in vain, to he who has been crossing a line here for a long time.

His self-serving posts makes a mockery of everything PS stands for.

I hear you and agree. BUT still say this crosses the line.

+1. I hear you, Kenny, I really do.

 

[yssie]

Goodness, this is a hot potato.

I went to the website and looked at the full descriptions. None of those three stones appeal to me, personally - I dislike windows and bowties.

That said, it's unfair to take portions of listings and spin them to one's purpose when the remainder of the listing specifically says, for example, "if you like this cut" and "extremely attractive TO ME". Even a vendor is allowed to have and state his own opinions, and just because they're minority opinions doesn't make them invalid!

The listing I quoted above even states that the stone has personal appeal, and doesn't hold to traditional 'ideal cut' parametres. This is a-okay in my book, and it's certainly not the sleazy used car salesman technique of "this is the best diamond in the world, trust me, there's NO downside period" - and if you have a particularly honest sleazy used car salesman - "this is the best diamond in the world, trust me, there's NO downside, if only the industry would wake up and cut all diamonds to exactly these perfect proportions!"

I don't like to buy without numbers. I personally don't care about flowery descriptions - I want numbers, numbers, and more numbers. Some people are the exact opposite, and DBL's descriptions no doubt appeal to them more than most other PS vendors. David certainly has unique pieces, and they deserve to be appreciated as such.

ETA: I have no affiliation with David or DBL. I simply enjoy hearing his counter arguments to general PS opinion, often agree that he has a point, whether or not I agree with that point itself, and would for one be disappointed if he was to no longer offer his thoughts here.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I think what''s plain here is that if Kenny, or ccl start their own forum I won''t be invited. Damn.

In the meantime it''s also plain that both posters seem to ...fear (?) any opinion different from their own. Going so far as to start this thread- or use vulgar inappropriate language. It''s entirely possibly, ccl and Kenny, that people complain to the moderators about both or either of you.


The title of this thread could be comical.
Gee, 10 people feel this way, and one person feels that way.
Who is in the minority?

Last time I looked, the country I live in is a democracy.
That means you don''t have to have the majority opinion to be heard.
Kudos to the folks who run PS for allowing open debate.

Another important aspect here is that I speak for many other professionals who never post on diamond forums.
The majority opinion on PS is by no means the majority opinion in the trade.

 

[clgwli]

As a newbie to posting (but not lurking) I have to say this is kind of a sad thread.

I would say that the average person knows how to weed through "sales pitches" when it comes to shopping for anything.

I will say that I have read enough here to know who I think is "selling too hard" both in posts and via other commentary on websites etc. There are some vendors I would never consider purchasing from based on their responses here.

But considering that I don''t care for rounds, which means most of the threads here (which happen to be about rounds) aren''t quite as useful to me. I appreciate learning, but for me the only rounds I will be buying in the future would be if I lose an accent stone. Which is why I like to look at the "your opinion" threads that aren''t related to rounds.

That is something I think *all* people in sales needs to realize. Being too negative about other styles and types out there is also a very bad thing.

I''d caution anyone who sells to keep that in mind. It is really hard for me to want to trust a vendor after either overtly negative comments about others or the selling it too hard pitch. I also am less likely to take advice from anyone who does any of that as well. JMHO

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 11/11/2009 5:30:58 PM
Author: yssie
Goodness, this is a hot potato.
it''s unfair to take portions of listings and spin them to one''s purpose

+1
i am watching from the outside but it is crossing the line.
this thread is going to go bananas very soon

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 11/11/2009 5:30:58 PM
Author: yssie
Goodness, this is a hot potato.

I went to the website and looked at the full descriptions. None of the stones appeal to me, personally - I dislike windows and bowties.

That said, it's unfair to take portions of listings and spin them to one's purpose when the remainder of the listing specifically says, for example, 'if you like this cut' and 'extremely attractive TO ME'. Even a vendor is allowed to have and state his own opinions, and just because they're minority opinions doesn't make them invalid!

The listing I quoted above even states that the stone has personal appeal, and doesn't hold to traditional 'ideal cut' parametres. This is a-okay in my book, and it's certainly not the sleazy used car salesman technique of 'this is the best diamond in the world, trust me, there's NO downside period' - and if you have a particularly honest sleazy used car salesman - 'this is the best diamond in the world, trust me, there's NO downside, if only the industry would wake up and cut all diamonds to exactly these perfect proportions!'

I don't like to buy without numbers. I personally don't care about flowery descriptions - I want numbers, numbers, and more numbers. Some people are the exact opposite, and DBL's descriptions no doubt appeal to them more than most other PS vendors. David certainly has unique pieces, and they deserve to be appreciated as such.

ETA: I have no affiliation with David or DBL. I simply enjoy hearing his counter arguments to general PS opinion, often agree that he has a point, whether or not I agree with that point itself, and would for one be disappointed if he was to no longer offer his thoughts here.

Thank you yssie!
Two of the stones ccl posted are Daussi cushions.
I mentioned that "sparkle gets in the way of seeing the facets"
To me this makes perfect sense.
IN many modern cushions there is the "Bucket of Crushed Ice" look.
Basically the eye can not focus on any particular facet.
What yssie describes as "windows and bowties ( no offense taken) some people see as "chunkiness"- meaning the facets are readily apparent without a loupe. These are typical of the Daussi cushions- I can tell you first hand that many people do love them.
If we compare a radiant to an emerald- we can see the facets in an emerald cut, but not in many radiant cuts- again, due in part to sparkle.

Thank you to ALL the fair minded folks.
It is a hot potato apparently

 

[exoticisabella]

Date: 11/11/2009 5:34:08 PM
Author: clgwli
As a newbie to posting (but not lurking) I have to say this is kind of a sad thread.

I would say that the average person knows how to weed through 'sales pitches' when it comes to shopping for anything.

I will say that I have read enough here to know who I think is 'selling too hard' both in posts and via other commentary on websites etc. There are some vendors I would never consider purchasing from based on their responses here.

But considering that I don't care for rounds, which means most of the threads here (which happen to be about rounds) aren't quite as useful to me. I appreciate learning, but for me the only rounds I will be buying in the future would be if I lose an accent stone. Which is why I like to look at the 'your opinion' threads that aren't related to rounds.

That is something I think *all* people in sales needs to realize. Being too negative about other styles and types out there is also a very bad thing.

I'd caution anyone who sells to keep that in mind. It is really hard for me to want to trust a vendor after either overtly negative comments about others or the selling it too hard pitch. I also am less likely to take advice from anyone who does any of that as well. JMHO

I applaud you for this

I too am a newbie and though I may not be up to snuff on diamonds yet, I can see through any kind of "line" somebody throws at me. Maybe another option would be to educate PSers on what a photoshopped diamond looks like since that issue has come up before?

 

[yssie]

Date: 11/11/2009 5:45:36 PM
Author: exoticisabella

Date: 11/11/2009 5:34:08 PM
Author: clgwli
As a newbie to posting (but not lurking) I have to say this is kind of a sad thread.

I would say that the average person knows how to weed through ''sales pitches'' when it comes to shopping for anything.

I will say that I have read enough here to know who I think is ''selling too hard'' both in posts and via other commentary on websites etc. There are some vendors I would never consider purchasing from based on their responses here.

But considering that I don''t care for rounds, which means most of the threads here (which happen to be about rounds) aren''t quite as useful to me. I appreciate learning, but for me the only rounds I will be buying in the future would be if I lose an accent stone. Which is why I like to look at the ''your opinion'' threads that aren''t related to rounds.

That is something I think *all* people in sales needs to realize. Being too negative about other styles and types out there is also a very bad thing.

I''d caution anyone who sells to keep that in mind. It is really hard for me to want to trust a vendor after either overtly negative comments about others or the selling it too hard pitch. I also am less likely to take advice from anyone who does any of that as well. JMHO

I applaud you for this

I too am a newbie and though I may not be up to snuff on diamonds yet, I can see through any kind of ''line'' somebody throws at me. Maybe another option would be to educate PSers on what a photoshopped diamond looks like since that issue has come up before?

+1. I''d love to feel comfortable enough to try my hand at snagging an ebay deal!