How can a 2ct RB SI2 be eye clean top side & bottom??

[LALove]

Hi all-

I'm confused

My future BIL purchased and just received this 2 carat H&A BGD stone for my sister's e-ring:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=BLAGS-104047808001

It is GORGEOUS! BGD assured me it was eye clean before I sent the link to BIL. I know eye clean means face up. Well, no inclusion can be seen face up, from the sides or top down. How is this??? Why was this graded SI2?

(Don't get me wrong- it's great that's it's so clean but I just don't get it.)

 

[should i be here]

Is it just me or is there nothing on the plot diagram???

 

[Lorelei]

Hi all-

I'm confused

My future BIL purchased and just received this 2 carat H&A BGD stone for my sister's e-ring:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=BLAGS-104047808001

It is GORGEOUS! BGD assured me it was eye clean before I sent the link to BIL. I know eye clean means face up. Well, no inclusion can be seen face up, from the sides or top down. How is this??? Why was this graded SI2?

(Don't get me wrong- it's great that's it's so clean but I just don't get it.)

Hi LALove,

It is more complex that it might appear, a stone, especially a bigger stone can be graded SI2 and be eyeclean to the majority of viewers ( allowing for individual eyesight/ viewing conditions etc). Also some diamonds can be graded more strictly than others, for example, a stone might actually be closer to SI1 for clarity but in the labs opinion, it should be awarded the SI2 grade. Clarity grading is based on not whether a diamond is eyeclean but on factors including but not limited to, location, colour, size, type, visibility and amount of the inclusion/s etc. I will post some threads for further reading for you.


https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-clarity/

By Coaties - https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what_eye_clean_diamond/

In this diamond's case, the grade setter is a feather, it looks like the clarity plot is empty but it is possible the scan didn't show the inclusion.

Sounds like your BIL found a great stone!

 

[LALove]

Is it just me or is there nothing on the plot diagram???

LOL When I first looked at it I thought so too but I just clicked the box that looked like the cert and it didn't show any inclusions.

Click on the last box on the right under the image of the cert that says "Report"- then click "open report" on the bottom left to see the plot better. There is a single feather on the left- which cannot be seen IRL from ANY angle and I have hawk eyes! Don't get why it's an SI2...

 

[LALove]

Thanks so much Lorelei!!!!

 

[atroop711]

Hi all-

I'm confused

My future BIL purchased and just received this 2 carat H&A BGD stone for my sister's e-ring:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=BLAGS-104047808001

It is GORGEOUS! BGD assured me it was eye clean before I sent the link to BIL. I know eye clean means face up. Well, no inclusion can be seen face up, from the sides or top down. How is this??? Why was this graded SI2?

(Don't get me wrong- it's great that's it's so clean but I just don't get it.)

I'm fortunate to have found out of those. I have an H/SI2 and I can't see anything from the top, side ect. On my report from the GIA there's one tiny small feather (If I remember correctly) and that's it..I was shocked that I was able to find such a great eye clean SI2.

That diamond looks like it's going to be GORGEOUS in person! Your future BIL did good!!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It is hard to see the inclusions on these reports put online. But it looks like he got a great buy! The flouro is a big bonus, I think!

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks so much Lorelei!!!!

You are welcome my dear!!

 

[Stone-cold11]

http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104047808001-PLDQR.PDF

Grade setting feather from the crown to the pavilion near the girdle, probably concealed by the prongs.

 

[Lorelei]

http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104047808001-PLDQR.PDF

Grade setting feather from the crown to the pavilion.

That is much clearer, thank you for the link Stone, as often it didn't scan successfully on the other report image.

 

[LALove]

Hi all-

I'm confused

My future BIL purchased and just received this 2 carat H&A BGD stone for my sister's e-ring:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=BLAGS-104047808001

It is GORGEOUS! BGD assured me it was eye clean before I sent the link to BIL. I know eye clean means face up. Well, no inclusion can be seen face up, from the sides or top down. How is this??? Why was this graded SI2?

(Don't get me wrong- it's great that's it's so clean but I just don't get it.)

I'm fortunate to have found out of those. I have an H/SI2 and I can't see anything from the top, side ect. On my report from the GIA there's one tiny small feather (If I remember correctly) and that's it..I was shocked that I was able to find such a great eye clean SI2.

That diamond looks like it's going to be GORGEOUS in person! Your future BIL did good!!!

Wow how lucky! They seem VERY rare, like finding a needle in a haystack. In all my searching these past few months I've never seen another SI2 so clean.

The diamond is just AMAZING in person!!! My (future) BIL doesn't know a ton about diamonds so I offered to live vicariously through him (hehe) and try to find him one. This was a really lucky find and the price was amazing!

I just have iPhone pics and they don't really show how pretty it is but I'll try to take some better pics before it's sent back to be set.

 

[LALove]

It is hard to see the inclusions on these reports put online. But it looks like he got a great buy! The flouro is a big bonus, I think!

I verified that the only inclusion is that feather. I also LOVE that is has strong blue fluorescence!!!!!

 

[should i be here]

Would that feather pose a durability risk since it reaches in from the girdle? I'm just curious for my own knowledge. Does clarity grade take into account durability concerns, or is it just based on what's there?

 

[LALove]

http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104047808001-PLDQR.PDF

Grade setting feather from the crown to the pavilion near the girdle, probably concealed by the prongs.

Thanks for the link- that makes it easier!

What do you mean "probably concealed by the prongs"? Should he ask Brian to set a prong over the feather for safety? (It can't be seen by the naked eye.)

 

[LALove]

Would that feather pose a durability risk since it reaches in from the girdle? I'm just curious for my own knowledge. Does clarity grade take into account durability concerns, or is it just based on what's there?

Good question- what do you guys think??

 

[Stone-cold11]

http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104047808001-PLDQR.PDF

Grade setting feather from the crown to the pavilion near the girdle, probably concealed by the prongs.

Thanks for the link- that makes it easier!

What do you mean "probably concealed by the prongs"? Should he ask Brian to set a prong over the feather for safety? (It can't be seen by the naked eye.)

I think it is one of those eye-clean when you didn't know where it is inclusions as it is quite well hidden by the faceting. I can see it now in the images on BGD now that I have look at the report.

It is at the 11 o'clock in the normal photo, 10 o'clock in the ASET and 4 o'clock in the IS image.

Yap, for safety, Brian will probably set it that way anyway.

 

[Stone-cold11]

Would that feather pose a durability risk since it reaches in from the girdle? I'm just curious for my own knowledge. Does clarity grade take into account durability concerns, or is it just based on what's there?

Good question- what do you guys think??

I think it is taken into account, if it really is a problem it will not be an SI grade. Brian would probably not place it under his signature stone too if it is a durability issue.

 

[LALove]

Would that feather pose a durability risk since it reaches in from the girdle? I'm just curious for my own knowledge. Does clarity grade take into account durability concerns, or is it just based on what's there?

Good question- what do you guys think??

I think it is taken into account, if it really is a problem it will not be an SI grade. Brian would probably not place it under his signature stone too if it is a durability issue.

Thanks SC! I'm sure you're right.

Wow I thought I had hawk eyes!!

 

[Lorelei]

Would that feather pose a durability risk since it reaches in from the girdle? I'm just curious for my own knowledge. Does clarity grade take into account durability concerns, or is it just based on what's there?

Good question- what do you guys think??

The feather should not be an issue as it meets with Brian's approval, he and the other trusted vendors would not sell or recommend a diamond with potential durability issues, an experienced setter would know best how to set the stone to offer the most protection.

 

[LALove]

Thanks everyone- you guys are the BEST!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Clarity grading is based on the physical existence of imperfection. This is quite different from the visibility of said imperfection.
So, it really does not matter at all how the stone looks to the naked eye- in fact, how it looks to the naked eye is irrelevant to an accurate clarity grade.
This is a very good point- and most frequently understood.
"Oh, I can see all Si2 imperfections"
or
"VS diamonds are always eye clean"
Both hypothetical statements have no basis in fact. Nor would any statement about location of imperfection affecting the clarity grade- that too is irrelevant.
Even I1 diamonds can be completely eye clean.

The above quote is a copy and paste from an earlier thread- and I'm positive I'll need to paste it again many times!

Clarity grading is VERY misunderstood.
There are feathers that are nearly impossible to see- from the top, side or back
Yet if the feather is there, and it's SI2 sized- the grade will be SI2


I've yet to see a SI2 feather that will cause a durability problem.

 

[slg47]

LaLove-seems like you found an awesome diamond. So your future BIL is OK with the I color? (wasn't he originally stuck on D?) I can't wait to see pictures

 

[LALove]

Clarity grading is based on the physical existence of imperfection. This is quite different from the visibility of said imperfection.
So, it really does not matter at all how the stone looks to the naked eye- in fact, how it looks to the naked eye is irrelevant to an accurate clarity grade.
This is a very good point- and most frequently understood.
"Oh, I can see all Si2 imperfections"
or
"VS diamonds are always eye clean"
Both hypothetical statements have no basis in fact. Nor would any statement about location of imperfection affecting the clarity grade- that too is irrelevant.
Even I1 diamonds can be completely eye clean.

The above quote is a copy and paste from an earlier thread- and I'm positive I'll need to paste it again many times!

Clarity grading is VERY misunderstood.
There are feathers that are nearly impossible to see- from the top, side or back
Yet if the feather is there, and it's SI2 sized- the grade will be SI2


I've yet to see a SI2 feather that will cause a durability problem.

Hi RD!!

Thank you for the info- very helpful

I've just never come across an SI2 with only 1 inclusion that couldn't be seen from any side (unless you're Stone Cold who has Super Man Xray vision hehe) I'm assuming they're pretty rare?

 

[LALove]

LaLove-seems like you found an awesome diamond. So your future BIL is OK with the I color? (wasn't he originally stuck on D?) I can't wait to see pictures

Hi slg47!

The diamond is pretty awesome He's not totally in LOVE with the color though it is pretty white (I'm sure the fluor helps some). He's not going to find a stone with similar specs but D E or F color anywhere close to this price and he had a budget he wanted to stick to. This stone is definitely the most bang for his buck- I couldn't find a similar one anywhere near this price. He's going to keep it but said he may use BGD's upgrade policy later on to get a higher color.

 

[Rockdiamond]

You're very welcome La!!

Are they rare?
It's a great question.
If we considered new stones coming off the wheel, no, I don't believe eye clean Si2 stones would be very rare. If I had to make a guess- say 50% +- of properly graded Si2 diamonds will be eye clean
But the market has a way of acting like a filter.
What this means is that if we used diamonds that exist on the online DB, the percentage of eye clean Si2's might be a lot smaller.
The reason is that the non eye clean ones are likely to get returned, and manage to hang around on the DB lists.

 

[LALove]

You're very welcome La!!

Are they rare?
It's a great question.
If we considered new stones coming off the wheel, no, I don't believe eye clean Si2 stones would be very rare. If I had to make a guess- say 50% +- of properly graded Si2 diamonds will be eye clean
But the market has a way of acting like a filter.
What this means is that if we used diamonds that exist on the online DB, the percentage of eye clean Si2's might be a lot smaller.
The reason is that the non eye clean ones are likely to get returned, and manage to hang around on the DB lists.

That's good to know. I guess I always assumed they were rare because when I've worked with jewelers before (way before I found PS) and asked for eye clean SI2s to save money they acted like I was nuts and that they were too hard to find. The jewelers I'm speaking of ended up not being the most honest in the business (putting it VERY mildly) so they probably just wanted to make more $ by selling me a higher clarity grade.

 

[LALove]

FYI I emailed Denise at BGD re the possible "durability issue" of the feather in this stone and here's what she said:

"Please don't worry !!! Brian would not get or purchase or own a diamond that has an inclusion or inclusions that would be a determinant to the integrity of the diamond. The feather is internal and does not break the surface. If it did ... it would be listed on the certificate as a "Green" notation."

 

[yssie]

v nice find LA! needle in a haystack, indeed

 

[LALove]

v nice find LA! needle in a haystack, indeed

Thanks! I got lucky and looked at their website pretty soon after it was put up and had the diamond on hold before I even showed it to f-BIL. Denise said right after I put it on hold someone else called in wanting to purchase it.

 

[MarkBroumand]

I find that SI1s and SI2s are incredible value stones! And this is a great example! Such eye-clean stones are definitely out there. It might take a little bit more of a run to find them, but hey!, it just might be worth it.

As Lorelei and RD have mentioned, clarity grading is more complex than it sounds. That's why it pays to work with vendors with special standards who carry in-house stones which can be verified for eye-cleanliness.